118 réponses à ce sujet

[NuclearTech76]

I know the CD of flamer is influence by the time the power is active and the weight. Assuming the same loadouts as far as weight and same time spent flaming is the CD of the power shorter if you take duration on evolution 5? Is CD determined by percentage of time spent flaming versus the max duration of the power?

[Deerber]

Always wondered this too...

 

Not that it matters if you don't spam it.

[Tonymac]

Hold on.....  you went duration?  

[NuclearTech76]

Hold on.....  you went duration?  

Nah but it could make for some interesting FE builds on the Vorcha with a heavy loadout. Damage is still far superior but it's a question that I want to know before messing with some hipster builds. 

[FuriousFelicia]

I'd like to know is the DoT dependent on how long you sustained the flamer or is it the same if you simply paint the target.

[Tonymac]

Nah but it could make for some interesting FE builds on the Vorcha with a heavy loadout. Damage is still far superior but it's a question that I want to know before messing with some hipster builds. 

I've wondered the same thing.  This might be a BroJo question....

[FuriousFelicia]

If I keep it open for a second - just to prime - the recharge feels also 1 second.
This is with 200% CD, I'm not sure what would happen with a heavier weapon.

[Shampoohorn]

In peddroelmz's flamer thread, you will see that the power can be stacked in ~0.9 second intervals when you're cancelling the power immediately.  In one case he applied 10 stacks to a single target.  

 

 

his data:

flamer 10 stacks

Damage Received: 378.000000 //1
Damage Received: 378.000000 //2
Damage Received: 239.741699
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3
Damage Received: 341.601563
Damage Received: 378.000000 //4
Damage Received: 433.253906
Damage Received: 378.000000 //5
Damage Received: 515.914063
Damage Received: 378.000000 //6
Damage Received: 589.941406
Damage Received: 378.000000 //7
Damage Received: 656.790039
Damage Received: 656.790039
Damage Received: 378.000000 //8
Damage Received: 716.765625
Damage Received: 378.000000 //9
Damage Received: 770.712402
Damage Received: 378.000000 //10
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055
Damage Received: 819.081055


Expected damage 126 * 13 * 10 = 16380

Measured (stacked) (378 * 10) + 239.741699 + 341.601563 + 433.253906 + 515.914063 + 589.941406 + (656.790039 * 2) + 716.765625 + 770.712402 + (819.081055 * 10) = 16892.3213 // a bit more this time but again close

[FuriousFelicia]

So in other words you can possibly have better results just by 'tapping' it than if you sustain it on target for the whole duration?

I mean I play my Vorcha sol like that with full flamer/carnage for FEs, and only use sustained flame for large groups of the most basic enemies. I keep the weight at 200% with just arc pistol.

[Shampoohorn]

Yes, you will get more damage if you constantly interrupt and recast Flamer because DOTs will stack for the entire duration of the last time you cast it.  In the 10-stack example, the last 10 ticks represent the last 5 seconds of DOT.  Each line is roughly 0.45 seconds apart.

 

Here's peddro's 4-stack data, which is a bit more commented:

 

Weird stacking mechanics

flamer 4 stacks


Damage Received: 378.000000 // 1 impact
Damage Received: 126.000000 /dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 2 impact
Damage Received: 239.202637 //2 stacked dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3 impact
Damage Received: 340.542969 //3 stacked dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 4 impact
Damage Received: 431.636230 //4 stack dot final 10 ticks
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230

Expected 126 * 13 * 4 = 6552

Inflicted 378 * 4 + 126 + 239.202637 + 340.542969 + (431.63623 * 10) = 6534.10791 // less but close

[NuclearTech76]

If I keep it open for a second - just to prime - the recharge feels also 1 second.
This is with 200% CD, I'm not sure what would happen with a heavier weapon.

I guess I could test it with a palpable loadout like Javelin/Crusader and rough timing estimate. On console the difference should be apparent even with rudimentary testing means. I suspect it's similar to TC but IDK.

[Deerber]

So in other words you can possibly have better results just by 'tapping' it than if you sustain it on target for the whole duration?

I mean I play my Vorcha sol like that with full flamer/carnage for FEs, and only use sustained flame for large groups of the most basic enemies. I keep the weight at 200% with just arc pistol.

 

The damage you do by tapping it is pretty much equal to the one you do by sustaining it.

 

 

Also, there is a minimum of half second CD even if you tap it for a fraction of a second.

[Shampoohorn]

The damage you do by tapping it is pretty much equal to the one you do by sustaining it.

 

 

Also, there is a minimum of half second CD even if you tap it for a fraction of a second.

 

 

Do I have the mechanics wrong?  I thought peddro's test was related to re-applications of the power and not stacks during a single cast.

[NuclearTech76]

Yes, you will get more damage if you constantly interrupt and recast Flamer because DOTs will stack for the entire duration of the last time you cast it.  In the 10-stack example, the last 10 ticks represent the last 5 seconds of DOT.  Each line is roughly 0.45 seconds apart.

 

Here's peddro's 4-stack data, which is a bit more commented:

 

Weird stacking mechanics

flamer 4 stacks


Damage Received: 378.000000 // 1 impact
Damage Received: 126.000000 /dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 2 impact
Damage Received: 239.202637 //2 stacked dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 //3 impact
Damage Received: 340.542969 //3 stacked dot
Damage Received: 378.000000 // 4 impact
Damage Received: 431.636230 //4 stack dot final 10 ticks
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230
Damage Received: 431.636230

Expected 126 * 13 * 4 = 6552

Inflicted 378 * 4 + 126 + 239.202637 + 340.542969 + (431.63623 * 10) = 6534.10791 // less but close

So the DOT ticks are restacking with the power over and over? 

 

Interesting synergy if you're firing a proccing weapon like the Venom or Falcon between flamer pulses with incediary. Damage probably gets pretty ridiculous on it. 

[Deerber]

Do I have the mechanics wrong?  I thought peddro's test was related to re-applications of the power and not stacks during a single cast.

 

Uhm... Not sure. To be honest, it looks a bit too tedious to delve into the numbers and really understand it.

 

And it was the same at the time the tests were done, so I remember I asked Tyhw if the damage would change if it gets pulsed or sustained and he answered that the difference would not be much.

 

Might remember wrong, but it's pretty clear in my head, so... Dunno?

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Assuming that Flamer's cooldown operates according to the same mechanic for sustained duration as Tactical Cloak does, then yes, you would technically improve the cooldown time for shorter bursts by taking Duration.

 

I almost never say this, but duration on Flamer may well be one of those power evolutions that, even if it works, no one should ever take! 

[Alfonsedode]

I guess I could test it with a palpable loadout like Javelin/Crusader and rough timing estimate. On console the difference should be apparent even with rudimentary testing means. I suspect it's similar to TC but IDK.

What is the effect on TC btw ?

[Cyonan]

It uses the same cooldown setup as Tactical Cloak, which the game uses a percentage of the cooldown based on the percentage of the duration used with a minimum amount of cooldown. In Flamer's case, it's a minimum 1 second cooldown.

 

The fire DoT itself will stack with itself and just roll any remaining damage over into the new DoT. There is no hard coded cap to these stacks, but mathematically there is a point where you'll start losing damage per tick rather than gaining it(Note: This does not mean you lost damage overall).

 

Not sure how often it stacks the DoT, but most things relating to DoTs in this game update either every 0.5 seconds or 1 second. Given that it's been mentioned that turning the flamer on and off produces similar amounts of damage, I would be leaning towards one stack per second.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

Flamer is best when you spec out of it.

[ThatOddGuy]

It uses the same cooldown setup as Tactical Cloak, which the game uses a percentage of the cooldown based on the percentage of the duration used with a minimum amount of cooldown. In Flamer's case, it's a minimum 1 second cooldown.
 
The fire DoT itself will stack with itself and just roll any remaining damage over into the new DoT. There is no hard coded cap to these stacks, but mathematically there is a point where you'll start losing damage per tick rather than gaining it(Note: This does not mean you lost damage overall).
 
Not sure how often it stacks the DoT, but most things relating to DoTs in this game update either every 0.5 seconds or 1 second. Given that it's been mentioned that turning the flamer on and off produces similar amounts of damage, I would be leaning towards one stack per second.

Does weapon weight affect the minimum cool down? Or can you put any ol weapons on flamer kits if we are just taping it?

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

Does weapon weight affect the minimum cool down? Or can you put any ol weapons on flamer kits if we are just taping it?

 

No, the minimum is always the same. It's just a matter of how fast you cancel it to get the minimum cooldown.

[me0120]

So in other words you can possibly have better results just by 'tapping' it than if you sustain it on target for the whole duration?

I mean I play my Vorcha sol like that with full flamer/carnage for FEs, and only use sustained flame for large groups of the most basic enemies. I keep the weight at 200% with just arc pistol.

 

Rephrase:

By "tapping" the Flamer you can continue stacking the hits endlessly as long as you never let the time span pass in between bursts? 

 

 

It didn't seem like anyone answered that so I felt like re-asking it.

[coldflame]

Flamer is best when you spec out of it.

Read my signature bob...

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

If you were to spray the flamer from left to right repeatedly over 1 enemy, would this count as re-priming?

It may be quicker to do that, than stop and start again.

[MGW7]

If you were to spray the flamer from left to right repeatedly over 1 enemy, would this count as re-priming?

It may be quicker to do that, than stop and start again.

No, it only applies to each enemy once per cast, but it will reset the duration of the dot,