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[Divine Justinia V]

This is really getting funny. 

 

lmfao i knowwww

 

 

True. Pharamond wanted to die, just like Karl did.

 

I don't think it was a mercy kill

[Iron Fist]

She thought it was the only way to provoke the war, to shock Wynne into voting for the mage secession.

 

She's got guile. I like it. Hopefully, she'll appear in DAI.

[MisterJB]

That's pretty vague. I guess I'm trying to understand why some people hate her so much. War in itself is a complex undertaking.

Templars and mages both had leaders (Lambert and Fiona) who were unwilling to negotiate until they felt the opposite side had been suitably weakened. The Divine and Wynne attempted to difuse tensions by introducing reforms such as an alternative to the Right of Annulment which gave her an excuse to call for a gathering of First Enchanters so that an agreement could be reached that avoided a war. Everything hinged on Pharamonth, the one mage in the world who could restore the mind of a Tranquil.

Adrian killed this mage and planted evidence in the quarters of someone she considered a friend. This lead to Lord Seeker Lambert now having evidence that the mages were not willing to negotiate and were only interested in armed revolution which, of course, set him off the hedge; and forced a moderate(Wynne) to take an extremist's position in order to save her son.

When Lambert went to arrest Rhys, the other mages resisted and during the confrontation, one Enchanter was accidentally killed which lead to the others fighting to kill and the Templars aswering in very much the same manner.

 

Basically, Adrian killed an innocent and framed her supposed friend to force a continental war. But that's not all, there are other instances where she shows evidence of wanting to send mages to die for their freedoms while she sits in the sidelines and enjoys the benefits plus there are also hints of mage supremacism in her actions and words.

 

Adrian is an unresonable, hate filled, warmongering, cowardly, manipulative extremist who revels in her perceived superiority and believes the best way to dispell fear and suspicion is to flash fire in the face of normal people. She is an example of the worst mages can give to Thedas.

[LobselVith8]

And Adrian is a "shemlen Circle mage" too!

I think Vivienne's apparent support for the status quo (the Chantry controlled Circles) is the dividing issue between how Vivienne and Adrian might be received by her character.

That aside, I'm guessing Vivienne is an attempt to give insight into the Chantry controlled Circle perspective, which is certainly fair, but it's not as though I don't have my own concerns about potential companions with obviously conflicting goals than my own (for my first run).

[KainD]

I think Vivienne's apparent support for the status quo (the Chantry controlled Circles) is the dividing issue between how Vivienne and Adrian might be received by her character.

That aside, I'm guessing Vivienne is an attempt to give insight into the Chantry controlled Circle perspective, which is certainly fair, but it's not as though I don't have my own concerns about potential companions with obviously conflicting goals than my own (for my first run).

 

I think Vivienne only cares about her own butt and status, that she can only keep if there is order in the circles. But we will see.

[Divine Justinia V]

I think Vivienne's apparent support for the status quo (the Chantry controlled Circles) is the dividing issue between how Vivienne and Adrian might be received by her character.

That aside, I'm guessing Vivienne is an attempt to give insight into the Chantry controlled Circle perspective, which is certainly fair, but it's not as though I don't have my own concerns about potential companions with obviously conflicting goals than my own (for my first run).

 

Vivienne says something about wanting to help her "fellow mages", or something about not leaving them behind, I can't remember exactly -- but I don't think she wants anything that will harm them.

[Lillian]

She killed a man that could restore the minds of tranquils?! That no good, lying, ******* ******* ******** ********* ****** *** ** ******* ******!!!

(Note: The stars are no indication of words, just incoherent mumbling.)

[KainD]

Vivienne says something about wanting to help her "fellow mages", or something about not leaving them behind, I can't remember exactly -- but I don't think she wants anything that will harm them.

 

When does she say that? 

[Divine Justinia V]

When does she say that? 

 

I think in the PAX demo, in a cut scene with the Inquisitor

It's something along the lines of that, that she says she won't abandon them or help them or something. It might have been a description, I can't remember.

[KainD]

She killed a man that could restore the minds of tranquils?! That no good, lying, ******* ******* ******** ********* ****** *** ** ******* ******!!!

(Note: The stars are no indication of words, just incoherent mumbling.)

 

Nah, the minds of tranquil are not restored by men, they are restored by fade entities. 

[LobselVith8]

I don't think it was a mercy kill

That's certainly possible. Adrian might be able to actually shed some light on that if the protagonist encounters her in Inquisition.

[KainD]

I think in the PAX demo, in a cut scene with the Inquisitor

 

Well sh*t, I like her a little less now. 

[Lillian]

Oh, alright~

[Divine Justinia V]

Nah, the minds of tranquil are not restored by men, they are restored by fade entities. 

 

Either way, he had the research

[Divine Justinia V]

Well sh*t, I like her a little less now. 

 

because she said she won't abandon her fellow mages? uh?

 

That's certainly possible. Adrian might be able to actually shed some light on that if the protagonist encounters her in Inquisition.

 

I'd like to give her the opportunity to explain, granted I have my own assumptions.

[KainD]

Either way, he had the research

 

On on that sheet of paper it's said:

 

Tranquil restoration research. 

 

Step 1, to reverse tranquility - get possessed. 

 

The end. 

[Lillian]

On on that sheet of paper it's said:

 

Tranquil restoration research. 

 

Step 1, to reverse tranquility - get possessed. 

 

The end. 

So let it be.

[Divine Justinia V]

On on that sheet of paper it's said:

 

Tranquil restoration research. 

 

Step 1, to reverse tranquility - get possessed. 

 

The end. 

lmfao noooo stop

[KainD]

because she said she won't abandon her fellow mages? uh?

 

I wanted her to be a power-hungry selfish beatch that wants to restore the circles only to keep her position and wealth as a court mage. 

[bairdduvessa]

one of the things i love about the dragon age universe is that it isn't hiding just how messed up everyone is in their heads.  Adrian especially.  Who knows what horrors occurred to her in that circle, or what was done to her before she got there.

she had to learn to play the game yes, but it could have been that she was so afraid to be the one in the open, to be the voice.  that she knew she'd die.

maybe she didn't want to be a martyr,  

i'm not making an excuse for her.  just saying she had reasons to be such a, um...betrayer

making her that much more interesting.

 

but yes, so far in thedas, virtually no one (except the dwarf that wanted to study magic), as pure.

[Divine Justinia V]

I wanted her to be a power-hungry selfish beatch that wants to restore the circles only to keep her position and wealth as a court mage. 

 

I'm cackling loooooooolllllllllllll

 

I like that idea for her, but she does want to help her people. Sorry, Candy Kain.

[LobselVith8]

Vivienne says something about wanting to help her "fellow mages", or something about not leaving them behind, I can't remember exactly -- but I don't think she wants anything that will harm them.

Honestly, I think the return of the Chantry controlled Circles would harm the mages. If that's Vivienne's goal, it's simply not going to happen on my canon run. If her character can accept that because she's looking to help mages in other ways, then it'll be no problem for me.

And no, this isn't an invitation to turn this thread into a Mage-Templar debate for those of you who want to debate me on the matter; it's simply my view on the situation, and you're all entitled to your own opinions on the matter.

[KainD]

I'm cackling loooooooolllllllllllll

 

I like that idea for her, but she does want to help her people. Sorry, Candy Kain.

 

There's still hope, she might be lying to seem nice. 

[Divine Justinia V]

Honestly, I think the return of the Chantry controlled Circles would harm the mages. If that's Vivienne's goal, it's simply not going to happen on my canon run. If her character can accept that because she's looking to help mages in other ways, then it'll be no problem for me.

And no, this isn't an invitation to turn this thread into a Mage-Templar debate for those of you who want to debate me on the matter; it's simply my view on the situation, and you're all entitled to your own opinions on the matter.

 

I don't agree with Chantry controlled Circles, at all.

 

This is the problem with Xil comparing Vivienne to Adrian, or anyone really trying to debate about her. We don't know enough to do so, we don't know her goals or intentions.

[MisterJB]

There's no need to lie. People doesn't usually have only one motivation behind their actions.

She could easily wish to restore the Circles for the good of the mages and her own good as well.