1069 réponses à ce sujet

[Divine Justinia V]

Her actions and thoughts are akin to Anders'.

 

I don't think she was as motivated as him and,

 

People do many things we hate 

 

Anders and Adrian cannot be compared as Adrian does not have the guilt nor motivation of Anders. She likes to burn them and no feeling of guilt whatsoever. Fiona and Anders are more comparable, she is like none violent version of him.

 

basically this.

I think Adrian was much more devious in what she did, it left an even worse taste in my mouth, honestly. Anders was more apologetic too, while Adrian was just like

"yeah. i set you up for murder. and? what of it?"

 

 

I want them to meet. I want Vivi to drive her insane with her sassy awesomeness. I want them going all out at each other. And I want Vivi to burn her to ashes with style

 

I want Vivienne to hit her over the head with her staff like the Rafiki from the Lion King does to everyone when they're being asinine.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think what made Anders easier to stomach was that he admitted what he did to everyone and he was very openly ready to be the first to die for it. Adrian seemed as though she was much more willing to let other people from her own side die for her decisions. Anders tells you, at least I know on the friend-romance path, that he didn't tell you his plans so you'd be blameless. I believe that's true. What Adrian does is the exact opposite. Her plan is specifically to see that the blame ends up on Rhys.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I don't think she was as motivated as him and,

 

 

basically this.

I think Adrian was much more devious in what she did, it left an even worse taste in my mouth, honestly. Anders was more apologetic too, while Adrian was just like

"yeah. i set you up for murder. and? what of it?"

 

 

She does make it seem like she knows it would (obviously/understandably) end their friendship. (And I did get the feeling that saddened her, even if it was just a little bit). I certainly don't like what she did buuuut...she's Orlesian . She played the Game, essentially. And the one person she killed was already doomed...versus Anders massive slaughter. But then again, Rhys makes the point of saying how happy Adrian is to let others die for the cause/let others be the ones front and center while she eggs the whole thing on from the sidelines. Again, its all very Orlesian.

 

Although, Adrian acted knowing what Anders had done previously, which argueable could have influenced or even 'inspired' her.

[katerinafm]

I got Anders vibes from her only in that I went 'Dammit Adrian!' in a similar fashion to how many went 'Dammit Anders!' when he blew up the chantry. Instead of actually helping she just forced the issue and did something quite extreme. I like Anders despite what he did because at least I knew that he had real issues that he couldn't help himself with while Adrian was mostly just stubborn.

[Divine Justinia V]

I think what made Anders easier to stomach was that he admitted what he did to everyone and he was very openly ready to be the first to die for it. Adrian seemed as though she was much more willing to let other people from her own side die for her decisions. Anders tells you, at least I know on the friend-romance path, that he didn't tell you his plans so you'd be blameless. I believe that's true. What Adrian does is the exact opposite. Her plan is specifically to see that the blame ends up on Rhys.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. She's very unapologetic for her actions and for the trouble she caused.

Also her killing Pharamound made me hate her soooo much more.

[Divine Justinia V]

She broke up with him, didn't she? Something about putting her desire for mage freedom over personal feelings and knowing Rhys wouldn't follow the same path as her. 

 

I looked it up and she broke up with him because he wouldn't be the leader she wanted him to be.

[Divine Justinia V]

She does make it seem like she knows it would (obviously/understandably) end their friendship. (And I did get the feeling that saddened her, even if it was just a little bit). I certainly don't like what she did buuuut...she's Orlesian . She played the Game, essentially. And the one person she killed was already doomed...versus Anders massive slaughter. But then again, Rhys makes the point of saying how happy Adrian is to let others die for the cause/let others be the ones front and center while she eggs the whole thing on from the sidelines. Again, its all very Orlesian.

 

Although, Adrian acted knowing what Anders had done previously, which argueable could have influenced or even 'inspired' her.

 

I never thought about it like that, in terms of the Game.

I think she showed "remorse" when Rhys had her backed into that corner because she was afraid.

[JakeLeTDK]

Her actions and thoughts are akin to Anders'. It'd be nice if I get to at least punch her like Isolde in DA:O. Bloody extremists.

I don't like either of them but I have to disagree here. The 2 are different.

Anders was possessed, and he at least has the balls to openly admit his action, and willing to pay for it, even with his own life. As much as I hate him, at least I can respect the guy, for he lived and died for his ideals.

 

Andrian however, purposely set it up so that Rhys would take the blame for it. She want to achieve her goals, but basically let others carry her load instead of growing a pair and take it herself. Sure she only killed someone whose fate was doomed already, but setting up your friends (ex lover) to take the blame for your action, and use that to your advantage? It takes a special kind of a B***** to pull something like that. 

[Divine Justinia V]

I got Anders vibes from her only in that I went 'Dammit Adrian!' in a similar fashion to how many went 'Dammit Anders!' when he blew up the chantry. Instead of actually helping she just forced the issue and did something quite extreme. I like Anders despite what he did because at least I knew that he had real issues that he couldn't help himself with while Adrian was mostly just stubborn.

 

It doesn't help that their names are so similar lol.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I looked it up and she broke up with him because he wouldn't be the leader she wanted him to be.

The way this all gets phrased in the beginning of the book makes it sound a lot different then how it turns out. In the beginning it implied, to me at least, that Rhys and Adrian viewed him (Rhys) as vaguely cowardly. And really, a lot of the book IS Rhys finding his voice.

 

I never thought about it like that, in terms of the Game.

I think she showed "remorse" when Rhys had her backed into that corner because she was afraid.

Gaider starts the whole book with Eveangline at the party going into that whole long look at the nobles playing the game, and really tying it back with her actions feels like as close as that thread comes to 'full circle'. That and the Divine playing the game...but Adrian kinda did it better then the Divine in the end

 

Was she? I don't remember getting that vibe but I was reading pretty fast by then and freaking out about all the implications the book had on Inquisition haha.

[Banxey]

I'd like to talk to her to know if she actually has good reasons, or at least any sort of reason for why she is like she is. Or I kind of hope that by the time we meet her (if we do) the reality of being an apostate on the run has changed her perspective. I find it hard not to blame her and Lambert for Wynne's death though. I know Wynne was preachy, but I liked her.

[TurretSyndrome]

I don't like either of them but I have to disagree here. The 2 are different.

Anders was possessed, and he at least has the balls to openly admit his action, and willing to pay for it, even with his own life. As much as I hate him, at least I can respect the guy, for he lived and died for his ideals.

 

Andrian however, purposely set it up so that Rhys would take the blame for it. She want to achieve her goals, but basically let others carry her load instead of growing a pair and take it herself. Sure she only killed someone whose fate was doomed already, but setting up your friends (ex lover) to take the blame for your action, and use that to your advantage? It takes a special kind of a B***** to pull something like that. 

 

 

Well I never said they were clones of each other, only that they performed similarly in the game and the book , killing someone and forcing the issue to go out of hand. Sure, you can argue that Anders was not in control of himself, but I don't know. It's just as possible for Anders to be the culprit and Justice only being the spirit that was corrupted by his anger, as it is for to Anders lose control of his mind because of Justice. One can never really know. Though I suppose one can still pity Anders for his state, as I certainly did, despite disliking what he did and what he thinks is justified "for the cause".

 

I agree with what you said about Adrian though.

[Divine Justinia V]

The way this all gets phrased in the beginning of the book makes it sound a lot different then how it turns out. In the beginning it implied, to me at least, that Rhys and Adrian viewed him (Rhys) as vaguely cowardly. And really, a lot of the book IS Rhys finding his voice.

 

Gaider starts the whole book with Eveangline at the party going into that whole long look at the nobles playing the game, and really tying it back with her actions feels like as close as that thread comes to 'full circle'. That and the Divine playing the game...but Adrian kinda did it better then the Divine in the end

 

Was she? I don't remember getting that vibe but I was reading pretty fast by then and freaking out about all the implications the book had on Inquisition haha.

 

I think she saw him as a "coward" because he wasn't as head-strong as her, because she tried to push him to eventually be First Enchanter and then the head of the Libertarians.

 

Idk, I think the Divine played it pretty well, she set up that entire thing in the beginning of the book and no one had a single clue.

[Divine Justinia V]

I'd like to talk to her to know if she actually has good reasons, or at least any sort of reason for why she is like she is. Or I kind of hope that by the time we meet her (if we do) the reality of being an apostate on the run has changed her perspective. I find it hard not to blame her and Lambert for Wynne's death though. I know Wynne was preachy, but I liked her.

 

Hell yes, I 800000% blame her for Wynne's death and I ultimately cannot forgive her for that.

[TTTX]

If she shows up, let's hope she has some character to her.

 

We don't need a new Kai Lame that's just because he is a lose end in the ME series novels and we need to deal with him.

 

I'm all for bringing in characters in from the various media that comes the series BW have made, but when you do stuff like that then you should also make sure they get treated as they should, I haven't really seen a really good adaptation or reason for that matter from the other medias into the BW games a side from Oleg in the Omega DLC.

 

Kahlee Sanders just felt well pushed into the game (even though it was just a side mission it felt unnecessary to have her there) because we need to know that Anderson has a woman waiting for him when the war is over in ME3.

 

Kai Leng Lame well was nothing more then a male version of a Phantom and had no personality despite being advertised as anti Shepard felt nothing more then a blasted annoys even more the Harbinger was in ME2.

[Xilizhra]

Hell yes, I 800000% blame her for Wynne's death and I ultimately cannot forgive her for that.

Um... it was the templars who did that. And it's not like Wynne would have lasted much longer anyway; she was dead already.

 

 

I don't like either of them but I have to disagree here. The 2 are different.

Anders was possessed, and he at least has the balls to openly admit his action, and willing to pay for it, even with his own life. As much as I hate him, at least I can respect the guy, for he lived and died for his ideals.

 

Andrian however, purposely set it up so that Rhys would take the blame for it. She want to achieve her goals, but basically let others carry her load instead of growing a pair and take it herself. Sure she only killed someone whose fate was doomed already, but setting up your friends (ex lover) to take the blame for your action, and use that to your advantage? It takes a special kind of a B***** to pull something like that. 

Lambert was already suspicious of Rhys. I'm sure she'd have no problem with letting herself take the blame if she could, but it just wouldn't work; Lambert would always go for Rhys before her. It was also necessary to spur Wynne into action; sometimes people need an issue to become personal to jolt them out of complacency.

 

I personally would hope for some kind of Samara/Morinth situation where I can swap Vivienne out for Adrian. If not that, just let her show up and be unkillable.

[Divine Justinia V]

If she shows up, let's hope she has some character to her.

 

We don't need a new Kai Lame that's just because he is a lose end in the ME series novels and we need to deal with him.

 

I think that's more or less what she'd be if she were to show.

[Divine Justinia V]

Um... it was the templars who did that. And it's not like Wynne would have lasted much longer anyway; she was dead already.

 

Xil, if she hadn't set Rhys up for murder, Wynne wouldn't have been forced to give up the spirit to Evangeline in the first place. None of this would've happened.

Since I finally made an Adrian dedicated thread, I'd like for you to tell me why you like her so much, or at least why you seem to act like she's not as bad as I make her out to be.

[Xilizhra]

Xil, if she hadn't set Rhys up for murder, Wynne wouldn't have been forced to give up the spirit to Evangeline in the first place. None of this would've happened.

Since I finally made an Adrian dedicated thread, I'd like for you to tell me why you like her so much, or at least why you seem to act like she's not as bad as I make her out to be.

Zevran's a professional serial killer. Shale is a rampaging engine of bloodlust. Sten fights for the utter subjugation of Thedas. That's not even getting into what Loghain's done. And I know the companions in DA2 were a bit lighter, but everyone could be considered a mass murderer in their own way still. Effectively, singling out this about Adrian as somehow making her especially horrible even compared to certain people in our own party has always struck me as very silly.

I see Adrian as being on the same level as those dark and edgy companions (and Vivienne seems to be another one), but one whose goals align with my own and whom I'd be able to work with far more easily.

[Divine Justinia V]

You're listing off characters that ultimately redeem themselves and seem at least a little remorseful/apologetic for their actions. Adrian was manipulative and devious, and set up not only her best friend, but someone she was supposedly "in love" with.. but for what? She forced his mother to come and save him under false pretenses. 

Vivienne seems a bit more stable and level headed than Adrian.

[Xilizhra]

You're listing off characters that ultimately redeem themselves and seem at least a little remorseful/apologetic for their actions. Adrian was manipulative and devious, and set up not only her best friend, but someone she was supposedly "in love" with.. but for what? She forced his mother to come and save him under false pretenses. 

Vivienne seems a bit more stable and level headed than Adrian.

Not... really that much. And they show all such development in-game, something that Adrian has not had the privilege of being. Given that the only potentially bad thing she does happens at the end of the book, her getting a redemption arc in the same book is grossly implausible.

And hell, if you object to manipulative and devious characters (and it isn't like our own parties have been innocent of such people), how can you like Vivienne?

[TurretSyndrome]

I don't understand why being apologetic or feeling remorse immediately makes characters who have done worse things than the character in question, A-OK. If she feels strongly that that is what is needed to be done, then she does not need to apologize, and probably won't. People seem to seek an apology letter from her like Anders than just disliking her for her actions or disagreeing with her. Weird.

[Banxey]

Zevran's a professional serial killer. Shale is a rampaging engine of bloodlust. Sten fights for the utter subjugation of Thedas. That's not even getting into what Loghain's done. And I know the companions in DA2 were a bit lighter, but everyone could be considered a mass murderer in their own way still. Effectively, singling out this about Adrian as somehow making her especially horrible even compared to certain people in our own party has always struck me as very silly.

I see Adrian as being on the same level as those dark and edgy companions (and Vivienne seems to be another one), but one whose goals align with my own and whom I'd be able to work with far more easily.

 

After what XIl said about Wynne, I don't want to agree with her. But she has a point. Zevran murdered that girl he loved (and did so rather callously). He may have regretted it after her found out he was wrong. But at the time he felt justified. I wonder if Adrian would have felt the same way had her actions resulted in Rhys' death. She felt nothing for Wynne, clearly, but she seems too unstable to be completely void of emotion. 

[Divine Justinia V]

Throw me sources of where we've seen Vivienne being manipulative because I've seen no evidence of that, especially considering we haven't even formally met her yet.

 

I'll give you that, about in-game, but that wasn't her platform. The book was. Everyone else had character development but Adrian. She went from bad to worse, really, however I don't know if that's what you'd consider to be the development. Cole got his "redemption", or maybe vengeance depending on how you want to look at it.

I meant, what about her killing Pharamound? You're really going to tell me that it was a mercy kill? She wanted nothing to be in her way, she wanted this Rebellion possibly more than any other Mage but I personally think she just wanted to please Fiona and feel important. (not that I'm blaming Fi, you know I looovvvee her)

 

 

I don't understand why being apologetic or feeling remorse immediately makes characters who have done worse things than the character in question, A-OK. If she feels strongly that that is what is needed to be done, then she does not need to apologize, and probably won't. People seem to seek an apology letter from her like Anders than just disliking her for her actions or disagreeing with her. Weird.

 

I'm not saying that at all.

What I'm saying is, how awful can you be to set up not only your best, but ONLY friend and the man you love for murder and in the long run, because of your actions, causing his Mother's death -- and not being apologetic. So. Not weird.

[Divine Justinia V]

After what XIl said about Wynne, I don't want to agree with her. But she has a point. Zevran murdered that girl he loved (and did so rather callously). He may have regretted it after her found out he was wrong. But at the time he felt justified. I wonder if Adrian would have felt the same way had her actions resulted in Rhys' death. She felt nothing for Wynne, clearly, but she seems too unstable to be completely void of emotion. 

 

None of their actions helped propel a giant war in Ferelden though. It's a little bit different. You have to look at the outcomes of each situation, because ultimately, that's possibly the worst part of what she did.