1069 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

To be honest sparing or killing Anders should have greater consequence. Why? Because the tension between mages and templars rises because of what happened in Kirkwall regardless of side chosen by Hawke. However sparing or killing Anders should have a greater effect especially in a global scale. Its like "Oh maker, its Anders, the person who blow up the chantry". Some would try to kill him and some would hug him depending on their alignment.

The outcome also affects him. Was he a murderer or a visionary? It all depends on how things go. The side Hawke chooses doesn't really matter as much as choosing to kill or spare Anders. In my opinion anyway.

What would sparing or killing Anders have on the effect of Thedas?

[LobselVith8]

Nothing I wrote precludes a robust characterization, nor does it reflect on the entire group. Yet there are clearly individuals in the DA world who have an 'achieve my goals at any cost' mindset. At what point does that mindset become unacceptable, and you, as a player, feel that this individual must be dealt with, in spite of them performing these acts in support of your chosen cause? I used Mages, because I was replying to Xil, but it could be equally applied to Templars, Orlesians, Dalish, or any other faction in conflict during the game.

Of course it precludes one, because you're turning Adrian into a villain who the player is railroaded into opposing. To what end? Support the templars? Or Loyalists like Vivienne who want to return all the mages to a monstrous system that's repulsive and horrific? I have no interest in seeing Libertarian mages like Adrian vilified and demonized for wanting a better future for the mages simply to make the position of Loyalists more palpable.

[TK514]

Of course it precludes one, because you're turning Adrian into a villain who the player is railroaded into opposing. To what end? Support the templars? Or Loyalists like Vivienne who want to return all the mages to a monstrous system that's repulsive and horrific? I have no interest in seeing Libertarian mages like Adrian vilified and demonized for wanting a better future for the mages simply to make the position of Loyalists more palpable.

Why did you bother to quote if you're just going to ignore relevant parts of my comment?

[The Elder King]

Of course it precludes one, because you're turning Adrian into a villain who the player is railroaded into opposing. To what end? Support the templars? Or Loyalists like Vivienne who want to return all the mages to a monstrous system that's repulsive and horrific? I have no interest in seeing Libertarian mages like Adrian vilified and demonized for wanting a better future for the mages simply to make the position of Loyalists more palpable.

That's assuming that there woudn't be a Libertarian mage you can support though.
Are you opposed in general of having a Libertarian mage as an antagonist? Even if there are Other Libertarian mages you can support?

By the way, I don't think Vivienne is a Loyalist. I think she's a Lucrosian.

[MisterJB]

Think there's definite implied shift of internal power of Templars towards those like Lambert/Meredith. The fact that the Templars instantly broke from divine shows how little actual power she had to enact any true reform.

Where is it implied there is a shift? Maybe this is how the Templars have always bee, regardless of whether you find them to be heroes or villains.

 

The separation from the Chantry is unrelated to a tonal shift of the Templars and shows only their unwillingnes to abide by a secession, not reforms.

 

Equally asunder clearly to me points that the middle ground of mages were on the deeply unhappy which is very different from the libertarian fringe which had always clamoured for freedom.Like in real life people are generally conservative but eventually if the grievances aren't dealt with you'll get groundswell rebellions that topple system of government.

 

You'd have to prove that they are at such a specific level of unhappy that they were unwilling to accept anything but complete and total lack of restrictions and compromise like Adrian. And thus, that dialogue was pointless.

[Xilizhra]

Fair enough, perhaps I misunderstood. Personally, I would expect the encounter, if such occurred, to play out similar to Avernus.

Well, unless we find out she's opening Veil Tears or something. Or she could force the issue by initiating violence for some reason.

That would work quite nicely. Especially as you can side with Avernus against a demon and then tell him to stop being such a dick, which he assents to. I honestly think Avernus is one of the best depictions of serious blood mages that we've seen in the series (though nobody will ever top Merrill).

[The Elder King]

That would work quite nicely. Especially as you can side with Avernus against a demon and then tell him to stop being such a dick, which he assents to. I honestly think Avernus is one of the best depictions of serious blood mages that we've seen in the series (though nobody will ever top Merrill).

I disagree. My favourite blood mage is Malcolm.

[Xilizhra]

I disagree. My favourite blood mage is Malcolm.

I said "serious." Malcolm only dabbled, like Jowan.

[Lulupab]

What would sparing or killing Anders have on the effect of Thedas?

 

Are you seriously asking this? Please.

 

How do you think various people of Thedas will react to a person who destroyed the chantry with grand cleric in it? It will definitely have more effect than if a few more mages survived. I doubt he and Justice are going to remain dormant. I was not claiming that its going to have grand effect. I was saying its effects are bigger than Hawke siding with mages or Templars. Hawke is "gone" Anders is not (if alive).

[The Elder King]

I said "serious." Malcolm only dabbled, like Jowan.

I misunderstood what you meant with serious. Though we don't really know how much he practiced it, do we?

[Master Warder Z_]

I said "serious." Malcolm only dabbled, like Jowan.

 

Jowan was pretty well practiced for a dabbler.

 

Just saying, i think he was lying personally he knew faaaaaaaaaaaar to much about it to just be "dabbling" and how exactly do you dabble in something you have to sign you're soul away to use, so to speak?

 

I never got that logic he used.

[Xilizhra]

I misunderstood what you meant with serious. Though we don't really know how much he practiced it, do we?

Enough to invent what's practically an entirely new school of magic, mixing blood magic with the darkspawn taint, in addition to whatever he used to keep himself alive for centuries.

[The Elder King]

Enough to invent what's practically an entirely new school of magic, mixing blood magic with the darkspawn taint, in addition to whatever he used to keep himself alive for centuries.

I was talking about Malcolm, not Avernus.

[Xilizhra]

I was talking about Malcolm, not Avernus.

Judging by what he said about the seals for the demons, he did it only to secure the prison and then gave it up.

[LobselVith8]

Why did you bother to quote if you're just going to ignore relevant parts of my comment?

I addressed it. I don't see the need to slant the narrative and the characters simply to put the protagonist in a position to kill people like Adrian who the player might otherwise support.

[The Elder King]

Judging by what he said about the seals for the demons, he did it only to secure the prison and then gave it up.

Possibly, though it seems strange he'd learn so well in a short period of time. He should've been a real genious on that case.

[Xilizhra]

Possibly, though it seems strange he'd learn so well in a short period of time. He should've been a real genious on that case.

It's fairly easy to obtain huge results in short amounts of time with blood magic, as Jowan and Orsino demonstrate.

[LobselVith8]

That's assuming that there woudn't be a Libertarian mage you can support though.
Are you opposed in general of having a Libertarian mage as an antagonist? Even if there are Other Libertarian mages you can support?

By the way, I don't think Vivienne is a Loyalist. I think she's a Lucrosian.

I'd rather we get complex and layered characters who we can agree or disagree with for the templar and mage factions, since we already have obligatory villains with the Red Templars and the Venatori.

[wright1978]

Da2 and asunder imply a shift over time IMO. Removal of moderate head of circle in asunder for example.

Separation from chantry is an example of state of Templars politically. Their loyalty is paper thin at that point which isn't healthy or standard.

It's not about the majority wanting what Adrian wants. Revolutions happen when the centre joins the extreme in protesting but that doesn't mean the centre wants the same exact things as the outliers.

[Lulupab]

It's fairly easy to obtain huge results in short amounts of time with blood magic, as Jowan and Orsino demonstrate.

 

Its correct. Its mentioned that blood magic does not have the limitations of normal magic as it is not related to the fade nor it draws power from it. Everything about it is present in Thedas and as long as enough fuel is provided (blood) it can do anything. Literally anything.

[The Elder King]

It's fairly easy to obtain huge results in short amounts of time with blood magic, as Jowan and Orsino demonstrate.

Orsino probably studied blood magic already, even if in theory. Jowan didn't display the same power Malcolm shown, in my opinion.

[The Elder King]

I'd rather we get complex and layered characters who we can agree or disagree with for the templar and mage factions, since we already have obligatory villains with the Red Templars and the Venatori.

Fair enough.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'd rather we get complex and layered characters who we can agree or disagree with for the templar and mage factions, since we already have obligatory villains with the Red Templars and the Venatori.

 

Don't see why we wouldn't put hardline extremists on both sides as possible enemies as well though, its something to consider.

 

Some within both no doubt would view the Inquisition with malicious intent regardless of action undertaken, or you know it could just be generic badguyafaction like Cerberus in ME 3.

 

Inquizzy: "But i support mage freedom!"

 

Adrian: "NO LIKE ME YOU DON'T! DIE!"

 

Inquizy: O_O

[Xilizhra]

Orsino probably studied blood magic already, even if in theory. Jowan didn't display the same power Malcolm shown, in my opinion.

Jowan did open a portal into the Fade with a spell that it normally takes multiple senior enchanters to perform, despite being an apprentice who didn't seem to be very skilled with magic.

[The Elder King]

Jowan did open a portal into the Fade with a spell that it normally takes multiple senior enchanters to perform, despite being an apprentice who didn't seem to be very skilled with magic.

Fair enough, though the difference in the two causes might be becuase of the lyrium. It might need not people to do the spell than doing with blood magic.