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[Master Warder Z_]

Not if you side with the Templars. Each time my Hawke helped the Templars and she spoke to him after, he seemed more and more upset with what was happening in Kirkwall until finally he is all, "Serving the Order and following them are no longer one and the same."

 

Yeah, it seems you have selective memory, he was speaking of Meredith's increasing paranoia, not the order it self.

 

In so far as following orders weren't in with what the Order was meant to do, and that's a fair criticism i suppose what with the insanity and all.

[GVulture]

Meredith views them as people as well, Just as corruptible as normal people if not more, close observation is warranted, after all if you cannot trust normal men why would you trust men with arcane abilities over normal men? And no, He said it was worth the risk to spare three mages from the Anullment given it wasn't warranted for that situation, never mind the Circle being corrupt to its highest echelons, that metagaming anyway, my point is that Cullen didn't support the notion of killing them all for the action of a single terrorist.

 

However had he known about the wide spread corruption of senior enchanters, Orsino and what have you, Who knows? He likely would have been more Adamant on marching on the circle then Meredith.

Well, when a Circle that was literally teaming with abominations and demons doesn't get Anulled, it might make it seem to him that no Circle or mage is beyond redemption. =)

 

That, and he basically takes back what he says about mages in Act I, but no one ever seems to want to forgive a recently transferred PTSD Templar from being a bit... nervous about mages and their abilities. For what he went through, having that knee jerk reaction about mages is perfectly acceptable. Especially when he mellows a bit afterwards. He actually mellows far more than Fenris does and people still hate. Sigh.

[FireAndBlood]

If Cassandra can serve the Inquisition so can Leliana. They're both the "hands" of the Divine, and I assume that the Divine will be involved with the Inquisition.

But that is exactly my point, we already have one hand working with us, why send another?

[Master Warder Z_]

If Cullen was aware of the corruption of Orsino and other enchanters he probably wouldv'e supported having them removed from power, not simply killing every mage in a circle.

 

Perhaps, but perhaps he would have been of the mind that if blood magic can seep into the highest ranks of the circle, why not the lower as well?

 

Rebuild from scratch, start over.

[Xilizhra]

Well, when a Circle that was literally teaming with abominations and demons doesn't get Anulled, it might make it seem to him that no Circle or mage is beyond redemption. =)

 

That, and he basically takes back what he says about mages in Act I, but no one ever seems to want to forgive a recently transferred PTSD Templar from being a bit... nervous about mages and their abilities. For what he went through, having that knee jerk reaction about mages is perfectly acceptable. Especially when he mellows a bit afterwards. He actually mellows far more than Fenris does and people still hate. Sigh.

He participates in the Annulment, therefore committing genocide. I really would have liked to kill him, to be honest.

[GVulture]

Yeah, it seems you have selective memory, he was speaking of Meredith's increasing paranoia, not the order it self.

 

In so far as following orders weren't in with what the Order was meant to do, and that's a fair criticism i suppose what with the insanity and all.

True, but I think getting to the stage of questioning everything isn't something that stops just because the crazy lady is now a statue.

[ZombieMasterDW]

I feel like I accidentally started the path of this thread getting WAY off topic, it's suppossed to be about potential advisors of the Inquisition.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Honestly, it's kind of insane that they would immediately put Cullen in power over mages in a higher position after what happened at the Ferelden circle. He shouldn't have really been there, imo. That's not an argument against him, but it's absurd how they decided to rank their templars in Kirkwall. I guess that surprises nobody. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, when a Circle that was literally teaming with abominations and demons doesn't get Anulled, it might make it seem to him that no Circle or mage is beyond redemption. =)

 

That, and he basically takes back what he says about mages in Act I, but no one ever seems to want to forgive a recently transferred PTSD Templar from being a bit... nervous about mages and their abilities. For what he went through, having that knee jerk reaction about mages is perfectly acceptable. Especially when he mellows a bit afterwards. He actually mellows far more than Fenris does and people still hate. Sigh.

Again perhaps, that could be his mindset on it, or perhaps he simply views it as a waste of a potent resource, eitherway he wasn't for the motion to destroy the circle due to Anders i grant that, but i do believe people are overestimating what that implies personally.

 

Given that.

 

Except that when PC interaction is granted, Templars have a duty to combat and destroy Blood Mages, There are lines that the Templars are not meant to cross, and sparing them is one of them. Apostates, Circle Mages are one thing, But those who consort with Demons? It crosses a line.

 

Point is, He was still a Templar, He acting as one, my point is that just because he was against Meredith by the end game doesn't magically make him Pro Mage.

[AresKeith]

We would need a mage, then.

No you wouldn't

[GVulture]

He participates in the Annulment, therefore committing genocide. I really would have liked to kill him, to be honest.

Except it was never a true Annulment because the Divine never ordered it. Also, if you side with the Templars you see that the only person that considered it an Annulment was Meredith. Cullen and most of the other Templars refuse to kill the innocents because as Cullen points out, Kinloch Hold was in much worse shape and it was redeemed. So, the only "genociding" were the Templars attacking mages that were attacking them. None of them cut down anyone that wasn't lobbing fireballs at them.

[Master Warder Z_]

He participates in the Annulment, therefore committing genocide. I really would have liked to kill him, to be honest.

 

Xil's patented Knee Jerk Hyperbole technique!

 

I know it well.

[Mistic]

But that is exactly my point, we already have one hand working with us, why send another?

 

There is another possibility: that the Divine dies and both hands are unemployed. Doesn't sound very dramatic, but if the Chantry starts crumbling because the higher-ups are bickering about who is going to be the next Divine instead of trying to look for a solution to the Veil Tears, then Cassandra and Leliana would have a good motivation to join the Inquisition.

[GVulture]

I feel like I accidentally started the path of this thread getting WAY off topic, it's suppossed to be about potential advisors of the Inquisition.

That said, I think Leliana would make an excellent spymaster. =)

[Xilizhra]

Except it was never a true Annulment because the Divine never ordered it. Also, if you side with the Templars you see that the only person that considered it an Annulment was Meredith. Cullen and most of the other Templars refuse to kill the innocents because as Cullen points out, Kinloch Hold was in much worse shape and it was redeemed. So, the only "genociding" were the Templars attacking mages that were attacking them. None of them cut down anyone that wasn't lobbing fireballs at them.

Gaider confirms that Meredith had the legal authority to order it with Elthina dead. So yes, it was a bona fide Annulment, and we clearly see templars backing one mage into a corner and aiming to kill her when she was just asking them to leave. Also, when the templars launch their initial attack on the Gallows prison, the mages don't even really respond at first and still get cut down. So no, this is wrong in every particular.

[ZombieMasterDW]

Cullen was sympathetic to mages while in Ferelden and he saw the circle get destroyed or almost be destroyed, depending on your actions in Origins. Then he becomes far more harsh to mages in Kirkwall and again sees an entire circle get destroyed. It's very likely that he'll be strongly reconsidering how to approach the concept of controlling mages.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

There is another possibility: that the Divine dies and both hands are unemployed. Doesn't sound very dramatic, but if the Chantry starts crumbling because the higher-ups are bickering about who is going to be the next Divine instead of trying to look for a solution to the Veil Tears, then Cassandra and Leliana would have a good motivation to join the Inquisition.

That's a pretty good theory. 

[GVulture]

Gaider confirms that Meredith had the legal authority to order it with Elthina dead. So yes, it was a bona fide Annulment, and we clearly see templars backing one mage into a corner and aiming to kill her when she was just asking them to leave. Also, when the templars launch their initial attack on the Gallows prison, the mages don't even really respond at first and still get cut down. So no, this is wrong in every particular.

I don't recall that scene siding with the Templars and it has been awhile since I played my Pro-Mage Hawke. Still. I don't recall Cullen himself raising a hand to anyone and at every opportunity he tries to mellow Meredith out. So, condemning him for trying to be a voice of reason... well... Eeesh. That's cold.

[Master Warder Z_]

Gaider confirms that Meredith had the legal authority to order it with Elthina dead. So yes, it was a bona fide Annulment, and we clearly see templars backing one mage into a corner and aiming to kill her when she was just asking them to leave. Also, when the templars launch their initial attack on the Gallows prison, the mages don't even really respond at first and still get cut down. So no, this is wrong in every particular.

 

Ah!

 

It was a beautiful sight!

 

 

[Master Warder Z_]

Cullen was sympathetic to mages while in Ferelden and he saw the circle get destroyed or almost be destroyed, depending on your actions in Origins. Then he becomes far more harsh to mages in Kirkwall and again sees an entire circle get destroyed. It's very likely that he'll be strongly reconsidering how to approach the concept of controlling mages.

 

That seems subjective and conjectural.

 

After all, Its going off the notion that he would view the circle as a failing, in two games he has never indicated as such.

 

he said it was needed in both.

[ZombieMasterDW]

That said, I think Leliana would make an excellent spymaster. =)

 

Agreed. But if both hands of the Divine are busy with the Inquisition and assuming that the Divine is still alive and in power, who would be guarding her? Maybe the Divine will be highly involved in the Inquisition and she'll be staying in the most important keep the Inquisition has control over.

[Xilizhra]

I don't recall that scene siding with the Templars and it has been awhile since I played my Pro-Mage Hawke. Still. I don't recall Cullen himself raising a hand to anyone and at every opportunity he tries to mellow Meredith out. So, condemning him for trying to be a voice of reason... well... Eeesh. That's cold.

Whatever Cullen did does not matter to my IC universe because I've never sided with the templars and never will. Nonetheless, he does nothing to stop it, goes along with Meredith until she tries to kill Hawke for some reason, and ultimately abets Meredith. He and every templar in Kirkwall should be brought to justice for this, if possible.

[GVulture]

That seems subjective and conjectural.

 

After all, Its going off the notion that he would view the circle as a failing, in two games he has never indicated as such.

 

he said it was needed in both.

He was a bit traumatized in Origins when he was calling for the Annulment... because... you know... days and days of torture. In Dragon Age II, he actually flat out says that the entire Circle didn't need to be razed to the ground.

[GVulture]

Whatever Cullen did does not matter to my IC universe because I've never sided with the templars and never will. Nonetheless, he does nothing to stop it, goes along with Meredith until she tries to kill Hawke for some reason, and ultimately abets Meredith. He and every templar in Kirkwall should be brought to justice for this, if possible.

Missing out on some great characterization by limiting yourself to mages only all the time. That's half a game's worth of writing you never see. Hard to discuss things if you haven't been exposed to everything.

 

I set out with my Templar Mage Hawke specifically for maximizing Inquisition possible dramas. Which meant being the best mage around to make rumored at the time Inquisition companion Cullen renounce his mage hating ways, and lo, such a turn around in the game. =p Oh, and Meredith makes me cry in the last act. Because... ARGH. Her pain.

 

That said, every other playthrough was a Pro-Mage Hawke, but I think my Pro-CIRCLE Hawke is my favorite.

[Xilizhra]

Missing out on some great characterization by limiting yourself to mages only all the time. That's half a game's worth of writing you never see. Hard to discuss things if you haven't been exposed to everything.

I know enough. Basically, Meredith's sister exploded and Cullen keeps three mages to make Tranquil later.