I think the Warden was last seen in pre-alpha footage, so I guess it's possible. But he's actually been in several things: the gameplay footage, the concept arts, the leaked survey pictures, and the armor customization art. It seems to me like he was a pretty well-established character if he's so well integrated into the concept work. Doesn't mean he's out, though.
And it seems like a giant waste in resources to just scrap him after all that, especially the pre-alpha footage
For the gender balance issue, I think some people have pointed out there are A LOT more female NPC characters and faction leaders that are likely to pop up than male characters. Here's a list of characters that either we know will, or might, show up in DA:I -
Female characters; Morrigan, Leliana, Scribe Girl, Celene, Briala, the Divine, Fiona, Adrian, Flemeth, Evangeline
Male characters; Cullen, Gaspard, Alistair, Rhys, Michel
They have a waaaaay bigger pool of female NPCs to work with. So, maybe they're balancing with the companion group and there will still be a lot of heavily feature characters of both genders?
DAO was male heavy plot wise and it still had less female party members than male ones.
NPCs do not exist to replace companions. They have no banter, they do not adventure with the player and they get less dialog. Being able to interact with a bunch of NPC women in a few quest here and there will never replace having a female companion to interact with all through the game.
Also, you can scratch all the Asunder characters, we are only going to see one character from Asunder in DAI according to the panel today.
But I don't even understand this. We've seen absolutely nothing of Cole besides they survey, which was clearly incomplete. Our knowledge of DHMG comes from two pieces of concept art and again, this survey which is hardly reliable. The fact that Cole and DHMG's addition to the game would make the gender ratio 6:3 is much more convincing that we won't have both of them than any of this "evidence".
Well, I guess your mileage may vary. For me, it's evidence because it exists. I'm not saying it's the most reliable evidence, but it's there. Particularly for DHMG, who is also in the concept art.
The 6:3 gender ratio isn't evidence at all to me because they've never made any statements either way about the gender ratio. If they had at some point said, "there will be a roughly equal gender ratio" or "there will be a similar gender ratio as past games", then maybe it would be evidence. However, you are assuming that the 6:3 ratio isn't something that they want and then using it as evidence. It doesn't come from them at all though.
Remember that a male mage Hawke had 8 companions (Carver, Aveline, Varric, Anders, Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, and Sebastian) and it was a 5:3 ratio, so that's not too far off. Yes, Carver was only in part of the game, but the Hawke sibling counts, imo, because s/he was in the prologue, act 1, a cameo in act 2, the ending 1/4 of act 3, and both DLCs. Also, Sebastian was DLC, but since there aren't DLC companions in DA: I, he counts in the total pool like the 9 DA: I companions do.
Well, I guess your mileage may vary. For me, it's evidence because it exists. I'm not saying it's the most reliable evidence, but it's there. Particularly for DHMG, who is also in the concept art.
The 6:3 gender ratio isn't evidence at all to me because they've never made any statements either way about the gender ratio. If they had at some point said, "there will be a roughly equal gender ratio" or "there will be a similar gender ratio as past games", then maybe it would be evidence. However, you are assuming that the 6:3 ratio isn't something that they want and then using it as evidence. It doesn't come from them at all though.
Remember that a male mage Hawke had 8 companions (Carver, Aveline, Varric, Anders, Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, and Sebastian) and it was a 5:3 ratio, so that's not too far off. Yes, Carver was only in part of the game, but the Hawke sibling counts, imo, because s/he was in the prologue, act 1, and then the ending 1/3 of act 3. Also, Sebastian was DLC, but since there aren't DLC companions in DA: I, he counts in the total pool like the 9 DA: I companions do.
Why are you counting Carver but ignoring Bethany?
Why are you counting Carver but ignoring Bethany?
Exactly. Swap Bethany for Carver, and we get a perfect 4:4 split.
Why are you counting Carver but ignoring Bethany?
Exactly. Swap Bethany for Carver, and we get a perfect 4:4 split.
Because they are mutually exclusive so only one of them counts. The other person was using the 6:3 ratio as evidence that there must be another female and I was showing that there have been similarly unbalanced parties in the past.
Yes, if you are a female Hawke or a male warrior/rogue Hawke, it is more balanced. That wasn't the point. My point was to demonstrate that Bioware will allow a skewed gender balance, so the 6:3 split isn't "evidence" for another female companion. I understand why people want another female, but I don't think that it's evidence for anything.
Believe me, I would take anyone over Cole, particularly a lady dwarf or qunari, but I just don't think it's going to happen.
grey warden could npc and not companion
Could be. However, we've seen gameplay footage of him in the party. We've seen him in concept art with the party. And we've seen him as a party member in the customizable armor concept art. I think it's more likely that he's a companion at this point.
Because they are mutually exclusive so only one of them counts. The other person was using the 6:3 ratio as evidence that there must be another female and I was showing that there have been similarly unbalanced parties in the past.
And I was showing that likewise, very balanced parties existed in the past.
As for Cole, the only evidence we have for him is the survey, which Gaider himself said to disregard since not everyone in it would be companions.
Well, I guess your mileage may vary. For me, it's evidence because it exists. I'm not saying it's the most reliable evidence, but it's there. Particularly for DHMG, who is also in the concept art.
The 6:3 gender ratio isn't evidence at all to me because they've never made any statements either way about the gender ratio. If they had at some point said, "there will be a roughly equal gender ratio" or "there will be a similar gender ratio as past games", then maybe it would be evidence. However, you are assuming that the 6:3 ratio isn't something that they want and then using it as evidence. It doesn't come from them at all though.
Remember that a male mage Hawke had 8 companions (Carver, Aveline, Varric, Anders, Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, and Sebastian) and it was a 5:3 ratio, so that's not too far off. Yes, Carver was only in part of the game, but the Hawke sibling counts, imo, because s/he was in the prologue, act 1, a cameo in act 2, the ending 1/4 of act 3, and both DLCs. Also, Sebastian was DLC, but since there aren't DLC companions in DA: I, he counts in the total pool like the 9 DA: I companions do.
You can't count Carver and not Bethany as part of a ratio. A warrior or rogue Hawke w/o DLC had more females than males. Yes, Sebastian threw off a balance, but that's what happens when you have an odd number of characters. As a Warden I could kill Wynne, Shale and Leliana and dismiss Morrigan, that doesn't mean that there were 0 female companions in Origins.
Bioware never said anything about keeping gender ratios even, but I'd be surprised if they did. We can talk about "important NPCs" all we want, but in ever Dragon Age game the most important characters with the most screen time have always been companions. I'd be very surprised if Bioware had double the number of male companions as females. It's hardly proof, Bioware could very well surprise me, but I'm more inclined to believe that Bioware will try to maintain an even gender ratio. This is especially in light of how very poor the evidence supporting the idea of Cole as a companion is.
DAO was male heavy plot wise and it still had less female party members than male ones.
NPCs do not exist to replace companions. They have no banter, they do not adventure with the player and they get less dialog. Being able to interact with a bunch of NPC women in a few quest here and there will never replace having a female companion to interact with all through the game.
Also, you can scratch all the Asunder characters, we are only going to see one character from Asunder in DAI according to the panel today.
It's possible that they wont balance the genders. It's just one theory.
I haven't seen the comment about Asunder. Do you have a link to it?
Edit-- n/m I read the tweets. I'm still not sure that means only one. It means they confirmed one so far, only. They probably means at least one will be a major character, which is definitely true if Cole is a companion. I don't think it totally rules out faction NPCs. Especially someone like Fiona that isn't "from" Asunder any more than Leliana is.
Why are you counting Carver but ignoring Bethany?
Because that's one valid group of companions. Just because the breakdown in DA2 can be 4:4 doesn't mean that BW isn't fine with there being a relatively significant discrepancy (*coughs and points at SWTOR, where female companions made up less than 30% of all companions*). Dragon Age is good about representation, but it's still far from perfect.
And I was showing that likewise, very balanced parties existed in the past.
Right, I know that. But there haven't only been balanced parties in the past, so I don't see how having some balanced parties and some unbalanced parties means that there is definitely going to be a more balanced party this time. Maybe I'm just not getting the train of logic.
As for Cole, the only evidence we have for him is the survey, which Gaider himself said to disregard since not everyone in it would be companions.
Agreed. I think he is the most likely to not be in. The evidence for him is fairly weak. However, the evidence for him is stronger than for anyone else because there is no one else in the concept art, gameplay footage, or leaked survey who is being hinted as being a companion. That's my point.
You can't count Carver and not Bethany as part of a ratio. A warrior or rogue Hawke w/o DLC had more females than males. Yes, Sebastian threw off a balance, but that's what happens when you have an odd number of characters. As a Warden I could kill Wynne, Shale and Leliana and dismiss Morrigan, that doesn't mean that there were 0 female companions in Origins.
Well, I'll use your criteria for DA: O then. If you are counting both Carver and Bethany, then you need to count both Alistair and Loghain. And since you aren't counting Sebastian, then I'm not counting Shale, so the ratio in DA: O is then 6 males and 3 females (provided you count Dog as male) or 5 males, 3 females, and a dog.
My point is that there have been unbalanced in the past so there could be in this game as well. I guess we just can't know until they say something for sure.
Agreed. I think he is the most likely to not be in. The evidence for him is fairly weak. However, the evidence for him is stronger than for anyone else because there is no one else in the concept art, gameplay footage, or leaked survey who is being hinted as being a companion. That's my point.
So having no evidence gives him stronger evidence than other characters who have no evidence? You'll have to explain that one.
So having no evidence gives him stronger evidence than other characters who have no evidence? You'll have to explain that one.
There is evidence for him. He was listed in the leaked survey as a companion. Yes, that survey isn't 100% accurate, per the devs. However, everything else that we speculated from that survey has been true. Sera and Iron Bull are in the game. Iron Bull sounds like the description from the survey. The concept art matches later concept art for the characters. So it's not like the entire survey is completely wrong.
If I remember correctly, they stated that at least one of the listed companions wasn't in the game anymore. Well, that doesn't mean that Cole isn't in the game. Dorian was also listed in the survey, so he could just as easily be the one that's out. I know that people think DHMG is Dorian, but there's nothing concrete linking them. If they confirm that Dorian is DHMG, then, yeah, I'd say that Cole is pretty much out. But they haven't so Cole is still on the table.
You can't dismiss the entire leaked survey based on that statement. There is truth to the survey, as proven by the rest of the characters in it. The devs also, at one point, said the whole thing was fake, which was proven to be incorrect, so it's not like dev statements are infallible.
At this point, you have two characters in the survey (Cole and Dorian) and one in the concept art (DHMG). Perhaps Dorian is DHMG and they are all in. Perhaps Cole is in but we have another mage. Perhaps, DHMG is in but Cole and Dorian are out. Perhaps they are both out. We just don't know right now. But you can't really eliminate Cole altogether at this point.
I can't believe I'm on a pro-Cole stance of a debate. How did that happen?
There is evidence for him. He was listed in the leaked survey as a companion. Yes, that survey isn't 100% accurate, per the devs. However, everything else that we speculated from that survey has been true. Sera and Iron Bull are in the game. Iron Bull sounds like the description from the survey. The concept art matches later concept art for the characters. So it's not like the entire survey is completely wrong.
If I remember correctly, they stated that at least one of the listed companions wasn't in the game anymore. Well, that doesn't mean that Cole isn't in the game. Dorian was also listed in the survey, so he could just as easily be the one that's out. I know that people think DHMG is Dorian, but there's nothing concrete linking them. If they confirm that Dorian is DHMG, then, yeah, I'd say that Cole is pretty much out. But there they haven't so Cole is still on the table.
You can't dismiss the entire leaked survey based on that statement. There is truth to the survey, as proven by the rest of the characters in it. The devs also, at one point, said the whole thing was fake, which was proven to be incorrect, so it's not like dev statements are infallible.
At this point, you have two characters in the survey (Cole and Dorian) and one in the concept art (DHMG). Perhaps Dorian is DHMG and they are all in. Perhaps Cole is in but we have another mage. Perhaps, DHMG is in but Cole and Dorian are out. Perhaps they are both out. We just don't know right now. But you can't really eliminate Cole altogether at this point.
I can't believe I'm on a pro-Cole stance of a debate. How did that happen?
The leaked survey isn't evidence since Gaider said to not use it as evidence since not everyone on it will be companions. You yourself admit you have no clue if Cole is the odd man out in it. So with the disregarded survey since it can mean anything, there is no evidence for Cole putting him in the same boat as everyone else.
In fact, of the survey characters Cole is the only one to not have concept art of him.
Edit-- n/m I read the tweets. I'm still not sure that means only one. It means they confirmed one so far, only. They probably means at least one will be a major character, which is definitely true if Cole is a companion. I don't think it totally rules out faction NPCs. Especially someone like Fiona that isn't "from" Asunder any more than Leliana is.
The leaked survey isn't evidence since Gaider said to not use it as evidence since not everyone on it will be companions. You yourself admit you have no clue if Cole is the odd man out in it.
So with the disregarded survey since it can mean anything, there is no evidence for Cole putting him in the same boat as everyone else.
Well, if you chose to ignore the entire survey, you are free to do so. However, you seem to be speaking for Gaider here and I've never seen him say to outright ignore the entire survey. I've seen him say, "take it with a grain of salt", which is what I'm doing.
The fact that there is truth to the survey can't be denied. Iron Bull is a companion. He is the leader of a mercenary group. Sera is a companion and she looks just like the survey in the rest of the concept art. The Grey Warden looks just like he did in the survey in the rest of his concept art. These things were all correct from the survey. I'm of the opinion that either DHMG is Dorian and a companion and Cole is out or, more likely, DHMG is a mage, but not Dorian and Cole is the rogue (unfortunately). That would fit with the dev statements about the survey as well.
Cole could be a plot-important NPC for all we know
I asked someone on twitter who mentioned the "one character from Asunder" for clarification. They were taking it as ONLY one character. Considering how important many of the characters in Asunder became by the end of the novel, I don't feel very good about this.
Maybe we just aren't going up to Andoral's Reach and they're not coming down? I guess if only one is in, it points to not dealing with the root of the mage/templar issue. That's not entirely surprising to me, though, I guess. They may want to keep it as background noise for future games. It does make Cole seem more likely, though, since he's basically the only one still in the area.
Well, if you chose to ignore the entire survey, you are free to do so. However, you seem to be speaking for Gaider here and I've never seen him say to outright ignore the entire survey. I've seen him say, "take it with a grain of salt", which is what I'm doing.
The fact that there is truth to the survey can't be denied. Iron Bull is a companion. He is the leader of a mercenary group. Sera is a companion and she looks just like the survey in the rest of the concept art. The Grey Warden looks just like he did in the survey in the rest of his concept art. These things were all correct from the survey. I'm of the opinion that either DHMG is Dorian and a companion and Cole is out or, more likely, DHMG is a mage, but not Dorian and Cole is the rogue (unfortunately). That would fit with the dev statements about the survey as well.
That's what I mean by disregard.
Cole could be a plot-important NPC for all we know
Believe me, I'd rather this. I like the idea that he is an NPC. I hate the idea that he is a companion.
However, I think he was originally conceptualized as a companion, per the survey.
That's what I mean by disregard.
But "take with a grain of salt" and "completely ignore" are two different things. You seem to take his statement as the latter even though he didn't say that.
Believe me, I'd rather this. I like the idea that he is an NPC. I hate the idea that he is a companion.
However, I think he was originally conceptualized as a companion, per the survey.
But I do think he's most likely a companion since there's really no other rogue we know of atm
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