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[EmissaryofLies]

I wish the circles that we've seen and heard about were the Disneylands that you'd have us believe them to be. I can't wait to see the rest of them. 

[MisterJB]

The idea that they shouldn't have any knowledge of demons beforehand is absurd. They wait until they've had magic for years to even bring it up? Mages should begin training to resist demons as soon as their magical potential shows. Nothing else really makes sense if you want to cut down on accidental abominations. 

And where does this idea come from? In Witch Hunt, we can read several books in the library that talk about the dangers of the Fade. Even if we were to assume they aren't taught anything beforehand, if the mages fail to seek knowledge on their own that is their own fault. They are provided with all the materials necessary.

[MisterJB]

I wish the circles that we've seen and heard about were the Disneylands that you'd have us believe them to be. I can't wait to see the rest of them. 

Do you mean the White Spire which used to be Drakon's palace? Or maybe the one in Cumberland where the dome is made of solid gold.

Clearly, they are living in poverty; starvation is the primary case of death amidst Circle mages.

[sandalisthemaker]

I'm pretty sure that was a pride demon, not Grace. Killing your templar allies isn't just evil, it's stupid, and while I don't like Grace, I don't think that Grace the mage was that much of an idiot. Grace the demon was half-crazy.

 

So Grace was blameless?

 

No. She chose to dabble in blood magic, which allowed the demon to get that much closer and made possessing her all the easier.

[Hellion Rex]

Do you mean the White Spire which used to be Drakon's palace? Or maybe the one in Cumberland where the dome is made of solid gold.

Clearly, they are living in poverty; starvation is the primary case of death amidst Circle mages.

Gilded. Cage.

[EmissaryofLies]

Do you mean the White Spire which used to be Drakon's palace? Or maybe the one in Cumberland where the dome is made of solid gold.

Clearly, they are living in poverty; starvation is the primary case of death amidst Circle mages.

 

Of course! How could I be so silly!? As long as the mages are wearing comfortable robes and live in gilded cages it's a-okay and not a thing is wrong. As Fereldan and Kirkwall have irrefutably proven. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

And where does this idea come from? In Witch Hunt, we can read several books in the library that talk about the dangers of the Fade. Even if we were to assume they aren't taught anything beforehand, if the mages fail to seek knowledge on their own that is their own fault. They are provided with all the materials necessary.

Considering the whole point of the Circle is to keep mages from becoming abominations, I think they have a pretty big stake in it. 

 

When you do the mage origin, though, it definitely gives you the impression they're not particularly encouraging you to learn about demons. The whole thing is lock and key, which is basically the opposite of what it should be. 

[MisterJB]

Of course! How could I be so silly!? As long as the mages are wearing comfortable robes and live in gilded cages it's a-okay and not a thing is wrong. As Fereldan and Kirkwall have irrefutably proven. 

When I talk about living conditions, I am always, ALWAYS, referring to the material. Emotional needs are far too complex to discuss in a couple of lines.

You asked how the Circle protects mages and protection from cold and hunger definitively qualify.

[AresKeith]

Of course! How could I be so silly!? As long as the mages are wearing comfortable robes and live in gilded cages it's a-okay and not a thing is wrong. As Fereldan and Kirkwall have irrefutably proven. 

 

Ferelden was 10x better than Kirkwall then

[EmissaryofLies]

When I talk about living conditions, I am always, ALWAYS, referring to the material. Emotional needs are far too complex to discuss in a couple of lines.

You asked how the Circle protects mages and protection from cold and hunger definitively qualify.

 

Damn, here we are again.

 

Creature comforts, I will not deny. If only it were the answer to everything and if only it justified everything else with the circle, but that comes down to what one values most I suppose. 

 

If you've seen House of Cards I am starkly reminded of Doug's relationship with that woman who ended up 'terminating' their relationship. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Ferelden was 10x better than Kirkwall then

 

And I'm sure this was a comfort to the mages who were tortured into submission by Uldred and left to die while the Templars were preparing to annul them. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Not surprised you'd say that, Mr. "Everyone should feel true pain."

 

Pain is God's gift to the world.

[Master Warder Z_]

And I'm sure this was a comfort to the mages who were tortured into submission by Uldred and left to die while the Templars were preparing to annul them. 

 

Ignore that the Templars tried to contain the situation and were forced back by the horde of abominations?

 

It isn't like the Templars went straight for annulling the circle.

[Iakus]

 

So, my question is, what do you think it means for a character to be a "moderate" on the templar/mage situation? What exactly is the moderate position, or are there multiple moderate positions?

 

 

A moderate character is one who agrees with the PC

[GVulture]

Ignore that the Templars tried to contain the situation and were forced back by the horde of abominations?

 

It isn't like the Templars went straight for annulling the circle.

Yeah. Not sure where they got anything other than that. The only ones killing anyone in Kinloch Hold when the Warden shows up was... wait for it... the mages! I didn't see a single Templar there that was just cutting down mages. The only ones THERE were under control of demons. Where the mages... they were just cutting each other down.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah. Not sure where they got anything other than that. The only ones killing anyone in Kinloch Hold when the Warden shows up was... wait for it... the mages! I didn't see a single Templar there that was just cutting down mages. The only ones THERE were under control of demons. Where the mages... they were just cutting each other down.

 

There were mage corpses spread through out the tower, unsure if they died via the Templars or each other.

[GVulture]

There were mage corpses spread through out the tower, unsure if they died via the Templars or each other.

True, that is up in the air. But by the time the Warden gets there, mages are the only ones doing any killing because the Templars are either dead, possessed, or locked behind a bubble of Templar magic that was never explained.

[Master Warder Z_]

True, that is up in the air. But by the time the Warden gets there, mages are the only ones doing any killing because the Templars are either dead, possessed, or locked behind a bubble of Templar magic that was never explained.

 

Its probably got anti magic runes in the door, aka the Abominations cannot use their spells to blow through it and its thick enough to withstand physical assaults.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'm not saying it's totally their fault, but the Templar's whole job is to make sure an abomination DOESN'T take over the Circle. They kind of failed at their job pretty hard. Not supervising Uldred better after coming back from the war, whether they KNEW it was extremely gruesomely fought and almost no one survived, was a big oversight. We know mages most often succumb to demons under intense pressure, so I'm sure they also have an idea. It seems pretty clear anyone coming back from Ostagar needed watched over and evaluated a bit closer.

 

Again, my point isn't that the entire incident is down to them. I'm definitely not saying it was abusive, like Kirkwall. It wasn't a stunning example of competence, though. They definitely failed at what they were there to do.  

[EmissaryofLies]

Ignore that the Templars tried to contain the situation and were forced back by the horde of abominations?

 

It isn't like the Templars went straight for annulling the circle.

 

I am not ignoring anything. The circle protects the mages from freezing and starving to death. I am simply pointing out that there are other things to be concerned about. Things that are vastly more important than creature comforts. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I am not ignoring anything. The circle protects the mages from freezing and starving to death. I am simply pointing out that there are other things to be concerned about. Things that are vastly more important than creature comforts. 

 

Not according to Maslow and i take his word over your own.

[GVulture]

I'm not saying it's totally their fault, but the Templar's whole job is to make sure an abomination DOESN'T take over the Circle. They kind of failed at their job pretty hard. Not supervising Uldred better after coming back from the war, whether they KNEW it was extremely gruesomely fought and almost no one survived, was a big oversight. We know mages most often succumb to demons under intense pressure, so I'm sure they also have an idea. It seems pretty clear anyone coming back from Ostagar needed watched over and evaluated a bit closer.

 

Again, my point isn't that the entire incident is down to them. I'm definitely not saying it was abusive, like Kirkwall. It wasn't a stunning example of competence, though. They definitely failed at what they were there to do.  

Which was sabotaged from within. What Uldred did would've probably had the same results in ANY Circle no matter where it was. His actions have no bearing on the competency of how that Circle was functioning.

 

The Templars just need to call up the Winchesters and get the towers some Devil's Traps installed.

[Master Warder Z_]

Which was sabotaged from within. What Uldred did would've probably had the same results in ANY Circle no matter where it was. His actions have no bearing on the competency of how that Circle was functioning.

 

The Templars just need to call up the Winchesters and get the towers some Devil's Traps installed.

 

Or you know, Annul the circle annually.

 

You get rid of the blood mages pretty surefire that way

[EmissaryofLies]

Not according to Maslow and i take his word over your own.

 

Neither Maslow or his hierarchy are infallible.

 

http://billbennett.c...lows-hierarchy/

 

http://www.redwoods....y/maslows9.html

 

And here's another from Forbes: http://www.forbes.co...-maslow-missed/

 

So he and any other person who would have me believe that a full belly and a heated home are all that's important or even most important can kindly shove it. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Which was sabotaged from within. What Uldred did would've probably had the same results in ANY Circle no matter where it was. His actions have no bearing on the competency of how that Circle was functioning.

 

The Templars just need to call up the Winchesters and get the towers some Devil's Traps installed.

I can't really agree with that. Uldred was one abomination and they had cause to suspect something was up with him. Not being able to deal with it did show incompetency, in my mind. Dealing with abominations is their entire job. I can't imagine this situation would take down any circle, or what would the point of them be?