Merril's a big girl. The Rivalrymance doesn't "break" her. More importantly though, isn't the "Hawke is my people now" the line that happens when you side with the templars and have like 75% Friendship or Rivalry or whatever percentage you need to get her to side with you after hesitation? Fenris has his own version for the mage side. It's irrelevant to rivalry or romance or "psychologically" breaking Merrill.
Fenris isn't "broken" when Hawke persuades him to stay by them either.
I do hope that's not directed at me. Cause if so I have never once insisted my views of how the story goes triumphs what actually happened. And if you do believe I said so do point me to said quote so I can be enlightened to when I said such nonsense.
Merril's a big girl. The Rivalrymance doesn't "break" her. More importantly though, isn't the "Hawke is my people now" the line that happens when you side with the templars and have like 75% Friendship or Rivalry or whatever percentage you need to get her to side with you after hesitation? Fenris has his own version for the mage side. It's irrelevant to rivalry or romance or "psychologically" breaking Merrill.
Fenris isn't "broken" when Hawke persuades him to stay by them either.
Well, it's clearly a ****** big misconception because Hawke has completely betrayed any semblance of morality by this point. Of course, the fact that so many follow such a Hawke anyway is kind of suspect... so maybe friended Anders is the only person in the party with actual integrity. Which would depress me.
It was in reference to how some posters in this thread think Merrill sold her soul to a trapped and sundered from the Fade Audacity for reasons.
I think it's interesting people also ignore the fact that said Fade Spirit/demon trapped in the statue is of no danger to anyone whatsoever, save those who live on Sundermount as he can influence their thoughts.
Well, for one, being gay does give me far more power than the average person.
But what mages are capable of is completely irrelevent to my point, and you can spout that trite line all you like, but I will never accept the potential to do harm, even great harm, as an acceptable basis for discrimination.
You can set fires with your mind? Awwww I knew those gays were hiding superpowers. Those bastards! *shakes fist*
And that's fair enough. But trying to compare what someone does in the privacy of their own home to blowing crap up with your mind is dishonest and trying to have a OH SNAP moment. There's plenty of reasons for mages to want the circle system. It is a superior way of life for some people (the poor, elves living in alienages).
Merril's a big girl. The Rivalrymance doesn't "break" her. More importantly though, isn't the "Hawke is my people now" the line that happens when you side with the templars and have like 75% Friendship or Rivalry or whatever percentage you need to get her to side with you after hesitation? Fenris has his own version for the mage side. It's irrelevant to rivalry or romance or "psychologically" breaking Merrill.
Fenris isn't "broken" when Hawke persuades him to stay by them either.
...so he'll go to his mage crush Amell in Amaranthine?
I'm just saying, it was done for stupid "lol reasons" same for Meredith acquiring the Idol and turning on Hawke or Orsino turning Harvester, the entire ending cinematic was head banging on a desk. If Cullen was smart he would actually moved to kill Hawke after Meredith fell, it was the ideal moment to strike when both he and his allies were wounded, tired and brutalized by hours of combat while Cullen and his Templars were relatively fresh and unscathed.
It was in reference to how some posters in this thread think Merrill sold her soul to a trapped and sundered from the Fade Audacity for reasons.
Oh. XD I feel Merrill was a bit of an idiot with Audacity but not that much of an idiot.
Edit: I am not saying I feel it was completely harmless or not a danger but my Hawke trusted her enough to handle herself. His main issue was LOLOL I'M DOING THIS IN A CROWDED CITY.
I'm just saying, it was done for stupid "lol reasons" same for Meredith acquiring the Idol and turning on Hawke or Orsino turning Harvester, the entire ending cinematic was head banging on a desk. If Cullen was smart he would actually moved to kill Hawke after Meredith fell, it was the ideal moment to strike when both he and his allies were wounded, tired and brutalized by hours of combat while Cullen and his Templars were relatively fresh and unscathed.
They're clearly terrified of Hawke and company. With good reason; judging by the way previous battles had gone, there's no way Cullen could have won.
I see Xil's point. The divergence in Merrill's dialogue after Act II's Dissent (between Friendship and Rivalry) leads me to see Friendship as one where she's a stronger, more confident person. She seems weaker when Anders tells her about being an abomination in Rivalry, while she's confidant about addressing that all spirits are dangerous in Friendship. Two different dialogues that are intended to reflect Merrill's state of mind (although I believe it's bugged).
It is bugged. I played both sides (and I REALLY hate the rival path) and I agree. She's more confident on the friendship path, and has more self-esteem. She also, by mid-Act 2, is no longer naive and is extremely sarcastic, but says it in the same tone as she says other things (leading me to believe it's supposed to be deadpan like her 'no' to Anders when discussing the human sacrifce.)
I really love her dry humor.
I see Xil's point. The divergence in Merrill's dialogue after Act II's Dissent (between Friendship and Rivalry) leads me to see Friendship as one where she's a stronger, more confident person. She seems weaker when Anders tells her about being an abomination in Rivalry, while she's confidant about addressing that all spirits are dangerous in Friendship. Two different dialogues that are intended to reflect Merrill's state of mind (although I believe it's bugged).
She's stronger and confident cause she has a attitude of "nothing's my fault". On rivalry she is more aware of the consequences her actions have on other people.
She's stronger and confident cause she has a attitude of "nothing's my fault". On rivalry she is more aware of the consequences her actions have on other people.
No she doesn't. She feels stronger because she's supported by a shemlan Hawke, so she recognizes she isn't the only one who believes in what she's doing.
You can set fires with your mind? Awwww I knew those gays were hiding superpowers. Those bastards! *shakes fist*
And that's fair enough. But trying to compare what someone does in the privacy of their own home to blowing crap up with your mind is dishonest and trying to have a OH SNAP moment. There's plenty of reasons for mages to want the circle system. It is a superior way of life for some people (the poor, elves living in alienages).
That the Circle might be comfier doesn't detract from the legitimacy of the criticisms levied against it. That other people might be in worse situations doesn't make the set up of the Circle any less despicable.
If the child of a wealthy family confided to you that his parents sometimes abuse him, would you tell him that he should stop whining because his life is otherwise more comfortable than that of most other children?
She's stronger and confident cause she has a attitude of "nothing's my fault". On rivalry she is more aware of the consequences her actions have on other people.
Her actions have literally no effect on other people apart from what they choose themselves. Also, what Dragonflight said.
That the Circle might be comfier doesn't detract from the legitimacy of the criticisms levied against it. That other people might be in worse situations doesn't make the set up of the Circle any less despicable?
If the child of a wealthy family confided to you that his parents sometimes abuse him, would you tell him that he should stop whining because his life is otherwise more comfortable than that of most other children?
Or if the wealthy child says they are being raped by their babysitter, but they should deal with it because they have it better material wise than many others?
It is bugged. I played both sides (and I REALLY hate the rival path) and I agree. She's more confident on the friendship path, and has more self-esteem. She also, by mid-Act 2, is no longer naive and is extremely sarcastic, but says it in the same tone as she says other things (leading me to believe it's supposed to be deadpan like her 'no' to Anders when discussing the human sacrifce.)
I really love her dry humor.
So, where are we at in the discussion? Progress?
So, where are we at in the discussion? Progress?
Not really.
Modifié par dragonflight288, 29 mars 2014 - 02:59 .
So, where are we at in the discussion? Progress?
They're clearly terrified of Hawke and company. With good reason; judging by the way previous battles had gone, there's no way Cullen could have won.
Terrified? Being scared doesn't prevent Warriors who are meant to face down Arcane monstrosities from fighting, and they had the numbers and as i said were fresher and more or less unscathed from the fighting.
We will never know now.
So, where are we at in the discussion? Progress?
No.
No.
We could try to make some progress by getting everyone together TO DO THE CHICKEN DANCE!
Thank you when i actually put thought into debate i can get surprisingly decent at it, its just so much of this is back and forth bickering i can get bored rather easy. It's hard to actually care when its just mindless drivel being foisted back and forth for hours on in, just how much of that is thought provoking?
Forbes ah yes famed online spokesmen of Rutledge, We will get to why that Premise doesn't apply to Thedas quite rapidly. You see Rutledge maintains and Forbes supports that social connections are intrinsic basic societal and even survival based means, but it isn't so within the Circle. The Circle maintains a confinement or preservation system that operates outside of social constructs of the realm this argument was meant to be presented within, Namely base needs aren't met by social interaction or memes they are provided to the Mages in question via the circle.
Obviously when the basic premise this entire hierarchy is based upon is challenged and defeated in this manner, the entire argument for the supporting of Rutledge over Moslow crumbles. Moslows Hierarchy of needs is satisfied by the circle, Rutledge's isn't even applicable. Obviously Mages feel the need for social interaction, but given that need is also met by being among their own kind even if Rutledge's premise was applicable, Mages due to their guild are provided to in that manner as well, even though their base needs do not stem from it.
I like how you twisted Rutledge's premise to attempt to fit the circle though, that was inventive, i grant you that.
Oh and one final note.
At its most basic level, it meets most of the criteria universally applied by the circles. I can agree with that and I have never disagreed with that. The rest? I beg to differ. I will direct this personally. Descending order.
Physiological - I will once again emphasize, that I find no fault with this portion in and of itself and I acknowledge that the Circle meets it. Most of it at least. The unlucky mages who aren't sneaky enough to squeeze in some 'private time' with a 'friend' might turn out like Emile.
Safety - At its most basic level, the mages can be told that the Templars are there to protect them. Yet when they see their friends disappear entirely and hear rumors about harrowings...that at least places an implicit uneasiness within them. You're welcome to disagree.There is always a threat looming over their heads no matter what they do. As for practicality, you can refer to Kirkwall and you can even refer to Fereldan. Jowan was made tranquil off of the suspicion that he was a blood mage. It was that easy. How can you truly be safe in a place like this? To put it plainly, what's the immediate feeling when your boss appears out of nowhere and you're on the forums? Now pretend that your boss can kill or lobotomize you at anytime should you step out of line. The concept of safety within the circle is fleeting at its absolute best.
Love/Belonging - Circle mages no longer have family. They may feel loved by likeminded individuals in their frats. Or they may get lucky with a Cullen. And when that ends badly...Where does the mage have to go? Maybe they can get transferred? And lose their family and have to start over once again. And so they regress. Terrific.
Esteem - Keili. I don't even have to elaborate beyond her name. She is not to be confused with the norm, however. There isn't enough evidence to conclusively state too much here. But one can imagine that the Chantry's dogma combined with their message that mages are responsible for original sin does not help. Nor does your average Andrastian's disposition towards mages help. They do not respect mages, respect is not the same as fear. Sure you'll have your exceptions, but they only prove the rule. Mage respect towards their masters varies greatly in contrast to the Chantry/Templar organization.
Self-Actualization - Like people in real life, not a lot of mages fit this category. Don't think that we've seen any circle mage who does, so far.
I would hesitate before making such a strong statement. Especially when the circles that we have seen have demonstrated time and time again the fundamental flaw with this theory. As a matter of fact, Kirkwall's Circle completely invalidates that claim. At least at the moment until we've seen more circles. There's also the fact that theory is not very scientific, which justifies alternative interpretations as shown by the various credible disagreements with said theory. It is very hard or downright impossible to objectively 'prove'.
And from About.com's Kendra Cherry = "While some research showed some support for Maslow's theories, most research has not been able to substantiate the idea of a needs hierarchy. Wahba and Bridwell reported that there was little evidence for Maslow's ranking of these needs and even less evidence that these needs are in a hierarchical order."
Annnnndddd right about now I just realized that I've defied myself. I do not hold a degree and here I am talking about psychology as if I am a professional. Do you hold a degree in psych?
Annnnndddd right about now I just realized that I've defied myself. I do not hold a degree and here I am talking about psychology as if I am a professional. Do you hold a degree in psych?
I will respond to that likely tomorrow but i can respond to this now.
I studied it briefly at university, but i never got a degree in it no, i found it overly pedantic if i am being honest, its all so conjectural based it seemed pointless to me.
I mean half the scenario's we went over in class were hypothetical mixtures of cited examples from our texts, like combination of mental type a with trauma c results in a b, it was so...like i said conjecture based i couldn't find myself liking it.
Terrified? Being scared doesn't prevent Warriors who are meant to face down Arcane monstrosities from fighting, and they had the numbers and as i said were fresher and more or less unscathed from the fighting.
We will never know now.
You say that as though being "tired" has ever hampered Hawke's progress before. I mean, stamina potions are a real thing in-universe.
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