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[Shadow Fox]

Merrill's difference in demeanor is different between Friendship and Rivalry; she seems like she's become a weaker person because of Hawke as a rival, while she's more self-assured and confident in herself as a friend. She's scared as a rival about possession, but she confidently assures Anders that all spirits are dangerous when she's befriended by Hawke.


I saw Hawke supporting Merrill about technology he was completely ignorant about, because she wanted to help her people - who he knew next to nothing about. It's a bit condescending (to me) for Hawke to tell Merrill she's wrong about something that he knows nothing about. It comes across as one of those 'I'm right because I'm human, and you need to listen to me.'


Between the suicides and the people of all ages who risk their lives to be free and run away from the Circle, like Aneirin and Malcolm, it's clearly not the best place for every mage.

No more condescending then to think you know better than your more experienced Elder, Funny to me it's simply telling someone dangerous things *like the mirror* shouldn't be messed with...Unless you believe one has to be a chemist to advise someone against messing with obviously unstable chemicals.

[Xilizhra]

No more condescending then to think you know better than your more experienced Elder, Funny to me it's simply telling someone dangerous things *like the mirror* shouldn't be messed with.

Not experienced in any relevant area. Also far more exposed to the demon's influence.

[dragonflight288]

No more condescending then to think you know better than your more experienced Elder, Funny to me it's simply telling someone dangerous things *like the mirror* shouldn't be messed with.

 

That 'experienced elder' who was so afraid of the eluvians that she wouldn't touch the lore and changed her reasons between acts on why she was against it?

[Ryzaki]

Ah well Vivi and my Qunari mage are gonna be fashionista pro-circle mage buddies :3 and woe betide anyone who stands in those two ladies way. *cackles*

[LobselVith8]

That is not being a weaker person. Why is that weaker to you? (NVM that banter is bugged to hell and back and what the actual trigger is might not be rivalry/friendship could be Anders killing that girl or not which would explain the blood on your hands line come to think of it..). Other than that one banter how is she "weaker" on the rivalry? Cause I don't see it.

It's in her demeanor and dialogue, where Merrill seems to have little confidence in her own worth, including in the 'romance' scene at the manor.

She displays more happiness and self-worth in Friendship, where she seems optimistic about the future, or even addressing how an elven Hawke might have brought about a new elven kingdom. She seems exuberance when she admits that she's glad she has someone who is willing to support her endeavor to help her people.

I know I'm not going to change your mind; it's just that I really, truly despise Rivalry.

Technology that Merrill also knows little about and decides to use in the middle of a crowded city full of civilians who would not be able to protect themselves if something did backfire from it. But clearly Merrill's desire to use it is more important than their lives and safety right? Nah that's Hawke trying to be uppity cause he's human. Clearly. He's not concerned about her learning about it via a demon who clearly has alternative motives, no he just has to be right cause human. That vile uptight Shem! *shakes fist*

Merrill learned blood magic from Audacity (because she lacked the lyrium necessary to use ordinary magic), but she studied the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard in building her own. She's the most informed about the Eluvians in the narrative of Dragon Age II.

Good thing I never argued that! I'm well aware some mages don't belong in the circle and are responsible enough to be trusted out of it. Which is why I'm pro the circle with major reforms. There are also mages who would prefer to be in the circle rather than have the crappy hand they'd been dealt with originally. I'm not saying all mages should be pro-circle. I don't even argue all non mages should be pro circle. My issue is with the "you're a mage you should hate the circle" mindset. The circle serves a function it needs a major overhaul yes but it performs a function. (Even TEVINTER has a damn circle.)

I think it's an issue of hating Chantry control over the Circle, and not the concept of having a Circle where mages can be properly instructed on the use of their powers.

[Shadow Fox]

That 'experienced elder' who was so afraid of the eluvians that she wouldn't touch the lore and changed her reasons between acts on why she was against it?

Considering the one they found unleashed the Blight sickness and drew Darkspawn to it just by being touched, I consider that the wise attitude to take regarding them.

[Ryzaki]

It's in her demeanor and dialogue, where Merrill seems to have little confidence in her own worth, including in the 'romance' scene at the manor.

She displays more happiness and self-worth in Friendship, where she seems optimistic about the future, or even addressing how an elven Hawke might have brought about a new elven kingdom. She seems exuberance when she admits that she's glad she has someone who is willing to support her endeavor to help her people.

I know I'm not going to change your mind; it's just that I really, truly despise Rivalry.


Merrill learned blood magic from Audacity (because she lacked the lyrium necessary to use ordinary magic), but she studied the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard in building her own. She's the most informed about the Eluvians in the narrative of Dragon Age II.


I think it's an issue of hating Chantry control over the Circle, and not the concept of having a Circle where mages can be properly instructed on the use of their powers.

 

She really doesn't. She kicks Hawke out of her house not even five minutes before the romance scene. She apologizes cause she realizes that he wasn't trying to be a dick.

 

Also the last conversation...I don't see why people are saying it like she should be happy. She just either got exiled by her clan for good because her Keeper out of love for her and unwillingness to let her get her own lumps and desperation let herself get possessed so Merrill couldn't. Or she had to kill them all in self defense after Marethari died trying to protect her (vainly or not). She's lost and shaken and hurt. Her final scene shows all that to me perfectly and Hawke does give her faith to continue on with her research in ways that aren't harmful to those around her, to stay with him (I really don't like this choice but true it's there) or to help the elves right under her nose that she's been dismissing for years as other (my fav choice). Hawke is hardly an evil monster ripping out her spine there.

 

Yeah I know I'm not going to convince you the rivalrymance isn't abusive as you see it as either much like you won't convince me the friendship mance is anything other than enabling of the absolute worst kind.

 

That's not saying much at all considering she doesn't know how the thing works. And again she does not know for sure if it's harmful or not so why exactly should my Hawke support her building something she isn't sure about in the middle of a crowded city. If she was doing this in some isolated place then fine whatever but she's not. She's not just taking her life into her own hands.

 

Eh I've heard pro-freedom people talking about complete abolition of the circles with mages living side by side with the normals. I always agreed a neutral party should control the circles. The chantry's dogma true or untrue does more harm than good. Templars do however serve a function but I'd  use them as more police than guardians. Another group (preferably more approachable but still willing to call in the templars as needed) should regularly check in with mages and watch them for signs of corruption while in the circle (which they'll stay until they pass their harrowing).

 

I do not however believe mages should be treated as normal people and to do so is foolishness of the worst kind. They are different. Treating someone differently is hardly treating them cruelly. That does not mean calling them a blight or curse of the maker. But I will be more wary of an emotionally upset mage than a normal person.

[dragonflight288]

Considering the one they found unleashed the Blight sickness and drew Darkspawn to it just by being touched, I consider that the wise attitude to take regarding them.

 

But Merrill was building a new one entirely from scratch and had cleanesed the darkspawn taint. 

 

Besides, the one they found was in the same country as the origin of a blight. How do we know it drew the darkspawn rather than the darkspawn simply came across it?

[LobselVith8]

Considering the one they found unleashed the Blight sickness and drew Darkspawn to it just by being touched, I consider that the wise attitude to take regarding them.

When the transportation capabilities can be used to provide food to the starving, to warn about impending threats, or relocate people to a safe haven, I respectfully disagree.

[dragonflight288]

When the transportation capabilities can be used to provide food to the starving, to warn about impending threats, or relocate people to a safe haven, I respectfully disagree.

 

Not to mention the capability to communicate quickly, which is all Tevinter with all their blood magic and magical knowledge could accomplish. 

[Ryzaki]

Those are all good reasons for her to build it somewhere that's not the middle of a crowded city.

 

As she was doing such my Hawke isn't pleased about it. All those mirrors don't lead to areas that are sunshine and roses.

[dragonflight288]

Those are all good reasons for her to build it somewhere that's not the middle of a crowded city.

 

As she was doing such my Hawke isn't pleased about it. All those mirrors don't lead to areas that are sunshine and roses.

 

And how would Hawke know that? For that matter, how do we? We haven't seen what it looks like wherever Morrigan went. 

[Hellion Rex]

When the transportation capabilities can be used to provide food to the starving, to warn about impending threats, or relocate people to a safe haven, I respectfully disagree.

If they can indeed be used as such. We only can speculate that each mirror links to another one. We don't even know the dangers of travelling through such a device.

[dragonflight288]

If they can indeed be used as such. We only can speculate that each mirror links to another one. We don't even know the dangers of travelling through such a device.

 

Well, my Warden was willing to find out. I think most of my Hawkes would be too since they friendmanced Merrill. 

 

Although, it probably would be a good idea, once we learn how to activate it, to activate it outside the city. 

[Hellion Rex]

Well, my Warden was willing to find out. I think most of my Hawkes would be too since they friendmanced Merrill. 

 

Although, it probably would be a good idea, once we learn how to activate it, to activate it outside the city. 

Yeah...I wonder if eluvians could have an adverse affect on the Fade when activated...

[dragonflight288]

Yeah...I wonder if eluvians could have an adverse affect on the Fade when activated...

 

Or do they simply bypass the Fade entirely?

[Ryzaki]

And how would Hawke know that? For that matter, how do we? We haven't seen what it looks like wherever Morrigan went. 

 

She flat out tells him the Eluvian made some of her clan sick so yes that's plenty of reasoning for Hawke to assume those things don't lead to sunshine and bunnies.

That's the IC explanation.

 

As for metagame as for Morrigan I'm sorry but I trust Morrigan to know what the hell she's doing far more than Merrill. For one Morrigan was taught by Flemeth and for another Morrigan used that mirror in an isolated place (probably going to another isolated place cause she wanted to have OGB or do...something if she wasn't preggo).

[Mockingword]

Those are all good reasons for her to build it somewhere that's not the middle of a crowded city.

 

As she was doing such my Hawke isn't pleased about it. All those mirrors don't lead to areas that are sunshine and roses.

I'm pretty sure that the mirror doesn't lead anywhere, since Merrill doesn't have the means to make it work as intended.

 

Anyway, abandoning research because it might be dangerous is pretty much the opposite of how anything gets done IRL. I despise the whole "some things man was not meant to know" trope, I think it's legitimately harmful to society.

 

The solution to any potential danger is to understand it, not to cover one's eyes and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Ryzaki]

I'm pretty sure that the mirror doesn't lead anywhere, since Merrill doesn't have the means to make it work as intended.

 

Anyway, abandoning research because it might be dangerous is pretty much the opposite of how anything gets done IRL. I despise the whole "some things man was not meant to know" trope, I think it's legitimately harmful to society.

 

The solution to any potential danger is to understand it, not to cover one's eyes and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

Which is something Hawke learns after the fact so that affects my Hawke's judgement not one iota.

 

? I've said several times my issue was with her doing it in a crowded city. Do I need to put it in all caps? There's a difference in dangerous research and dangerous research with unnecessary complications. Doing it in the middle of a city is one such complication.

[Shadow Fox]

When the transportation capabilities can be used to provide food to the starving, to warn about impending threats, or relocate people to a safe haven, I respectfully disagree.

Little good that'll do if the taint is unleashed on Kirkwall.

 

But whatever you clearly think the potential benefits are worth the potential harm while I don't.

[dragonflight288]

She flat out tells him the Eluvian made some of her clan sick so yes that's plenty of reasoning for Hawke to assume those things don't lead to sunshine and bunnies.

That's the IC explanation.

 

As for metagame as for Morrigan I'm sorry but I trust Morrigan to know what the hell she's doing far more than Merrill. For one Morrigan was taught by Flemeth and for another Morrigan used that mirror in an isolated place (probably going to another isolated place cause she wanted to have OGB or do...something if she wasn't preggo).

 

The eluvian shard she had with her that was tainted by darkspawn before you cleansed it you mean?

[Xilizhra]

Little good that'll do if the taint is unleashed on Kirkwall.

 

But whatever you clearly think the potential benefits are worth the potential harm while I don't.

There is no taint, Anders would have said so had it been present.

[dragonflight288]

Little good that'll do if the taint is unleashed on Kirkwall.

 

But whatever you clearly think the potential benefits are worth the potential harm while I don't.

 

And since the taint ISN'T unleashed on Kirkwall, it's proof that she succeeded in cleansing it. She has it in the city for seven years after all.

[Hellion Rex]

Or do they simply bypass the Fade entirely?

Gah. I need answers lol

 

I think eluvians are portals, primarily, both within Thedas and trans-dimensionally. Morrigan did something to hers to make it bypass the Fade to another world.

 

Spoiler

In the Masked Empire, it seems the Dalish only know how to teleport between mirrors within the confines of Thedas

[Ryzaki]

The eluvian shard she had with her that was tainted by darkspawn before you cleansed it you mean?

 

You keep saying that like it means if she finishes the eluvian it'll be perfectly safe. (And she never does manage to get it working so we don't know if it was safe or not).

 

Once again my Hawke's issue is her doing something she's not even sure of how it works and how safe it is in the middle of a crowded city. If she had done it in some bolthold in the wounded coast he wouldn't have given a damn.