I actually Morrigan to be a bit of a moderate. Wants the freedom, but doesn't want to burn Towers down around the Templar's ears to get it. Yes/no?
actually she says she wants to kill all the mages few times during broken circle. umm... i wouldn't call her pro-templar tho.
So, after the past, what, 20 or so pages, we've finally come to the conclusion that Merrill is in fact, not a moderate character because she spends most of her time working on the Eluvian?
So, how about all those moderate characters?
It's hard to say who is a moderate character because we have not decided the conflict they are moderate about.
For example, Anders I think we can all agree was not moderate on the Mage issue, but what of other issues? He seemed pretty moderate and/or neutral on other things, like for example the Dalish elves trying to regain the Dales.
Awakening Anders was pretty moderate too.
I feel like Morrigan would probably kill the templars if they tried to lock her up in the circle, definitely. She's just not really concerned what's going on with the other mages.
actually she says she wants to kill all the mages few times during broken circle. umm... i wouldn't call her pro-templar tho.
She is a bit difficult to place. Although I think most of her disdain for the Circle Mages was more that they allowed themselves to be Circled. I don't see her condemning their efforts for freedoms, but I also don't see her helping them. A bit like Kreia, I think. Do it for yourself rather than waiting for someone to do it for you.
(...)Although I think most of her disdain for the Circle Mages was more that they allowed themselves to be Circled.(...)
she's very fond of her freedom and i think she would fight alongside the mages if she had to choose. still, knowing her, she has some more important things to do than involve herself in petty squabbles.
yeah, she's moderate all right 
Plus, Morrigan also says she does not resent Templars for doing what they believe is needed, even if she has killed them before.
I think Morrigan has stayed out of the fray because it's been easy. She had Flemeth to protect her before Origins, then she was in the escort of the Warden and nobody would mess with her, then she was doing who knows what with the Eluvian. If she'd been pursued by the templars, I think she'd take a harder stance. If she felt her personal freedom was in danger, I don't think she'd be any less likely to start blowing things up than Anders and I doubt she'd even feel as bad about it.
Morrigan doesn't really care about the Mage Templar conflict.
Also, Merrill making a deal with Audacity isn't a flight of fancy or fanfiction. Merrill made a deal with Audacity to learn how to use her blood magic. The lore states that blood magic is so rare in Thedas that most mages learn it from making deals with demons. Now, granted, there could have been books around she could've learned from, but she says it told her how to cleanse the mirror with blood magic. It told her how to use blood magic.
Also, Audacity knew that she would ultimately fail with the mirror and knew that she would PROBABLY come seek its counsel when she exhausted all other sources. That is probably when the demon would start in on its, "Oh... well... If I was freeeee I could help you." It was basically playing the part of mystical drug dealer, "Don't worry, Merrill, the first one is free..." Marethari knew this better than Merrill did.
Anyways. Just because it is a point of characterization you don't like, doesn't mean you can ignore that she flat out tells you she dealt with Audacity to learn how to cleanse the mirror.
Its probably got anti magic runes in the door, aka the Abominations cannot use their spells to blow through it and its thick enough to withstand physical assaults.
Actually Wynne saved the Templers with the ward. The Templers had just Barred the door after thier retreat.
Actually Wynne saved the Templers with the ward. The Templers had just Barred the door after thier retreat.
Did you not bother to read the response that was in question to?
The person requested why the Templars were behind that door and why they expected it to hold, i gave my estimation of why they remained there in the anteroom while the rest of the Tower had fallen.
Actually Wynne saved the Templers with the ward. The Templers had just Barred the door after thier retreat.
Cassandra, Varric, and Vivienne all seem to be relatively moderate insofar as none of them support radical change (as far as we know).
The problem I've continually addressed, is that Audacity isn't in the Fade; it's not like the situation with Connor and the Desire Demon. Audacity is trapped, and completely sundered from the Fade.
Merrill learned blood magic from a trapped and impotent spirit, and several years later, it's still bound to a statute in Sundermount. Even Marethari never suggests that Merrill had to make a deal with Audacity to learn blood magic; the Keeper argued that Merrill restoring the Eluvian was Audacity's way to escape, which is why Marethari freed the trapped spirit.
There's also the simple observation that literally no one in the narrative claims that Merrill had to make a deal with Audacity in order to learn blood magic. Absolutely no one.
What's funny is that Marethari doesn't claim this at all. Not in Act I, II, or III. The Keeper claims Audacity will escape through the Eluvian, which is why she released and sealed Audacity inside her.
It's also funny that this is completely different than her initial reasons in Acts I and II for opposing Merrill's construction of the Eluvian, which was about bringing back the taint that had already been cleansed from the shard (hence why she's not a ghoul like the corrupted elves in Witch Hunt who were exposed to the remaining shards of the Eluvian).
Merrill said she spoke with Audacity to learn blood magic, and WoG addresses that she constructed the Eluvian from the lore she gathered and the information she extrapolated from the shard.
No deal is ever mentioned by anyone. The fact that this is never stated or implied by the narrative, and what the characters explicitly say, is the primary issue here.
She says it showed her how to cleanse the mirror with blood magic instead of lyrium. You're arguing semantics here now. She said, flat out said, it showed her how to cleanse the mirror with blood magic. That's teaching her how to use blood magic. In your argument, are you saying she took up blood magic for some other reason? And Audacity just taught her another way to use it? That doesn't fit the narrative of her justifications to fix her mirror. Which is why she says she does these things. That was her ONLY goal with blood magic, which to all intents and purposes, the narrative IMPLIES that she only took up this dark path after she learned blood magic would cleanse the eluvian.
Also, from the wiki:
Her efforts to construct an Eluvian caused her to turn to blood magic, which she learned from a pride demon imprisoned and sundered from the Fade atop Sundermount.
Modifié par GVulture, 30 mars 2014 - 02:20 .
Circle Bethany? I don't remember enough of that play through to recall how she felt by the end other than relieved she was with Hawke and horror that Orsino was such a butt munch.
Circle Bethany was content with her life in the Circle; she even said to Avelina that she was happy with it, though she wouldn't have expected it to be so; and was disdainful of Anders and his goals. Her opinion during the Annulment changes depending on what side Hawke is.
If siding with the mages, she claims normal people and mages need to find better ways to live together; if siding with the Templars, she claims that she is not sure if she is worthy of Hawke's mercy.
Circle Bethany was content with her life in the Circle; she even said to Avelina that she was happy with it, though she wouldn't have expected it to be so; and was disdainful of Anders and his goals. Her opinion during the Annulment changes depending on what side Hawke is.
If siding with the mages, she claims normal people and mages need to find better ways to live together; if siding with the Templars, she claims that she is not sure if she is worthy of Hawke's mercy.
Sounds like a moderate to me. =)
Circle Bethany was content with her life in the Circle; she even said to Avelina that she was happy with it, though she wouldn't have expected it to be so; and was disdainful of Anders and his goals. Her opinion during the Annulment changes depending on what side Hawke is.
If siding with the mages, she claims normal people and mages need to find better ways to live together; if siding with the Templars, she claims that she is not sure if she is worthy of Hawke's mercy.
Bethany also claims that the Maker has charged her with freeing her fellow mages, so take that as you will.
Saint Bethany doesn't count towards anything. She'll fervently believe whatever Hawke wants her to, or at least fall into his/her camp.
She's an example of your slightly above average mage, nothing more, nothing less.
Considering Gregoire says the tower is sealed and nothing can get through those doors, I would say the doors probably do a perfect job of keeping the abominations in.
You know, every time I replay Broken Circle the only thing that comes to my mind is how incompetent and cowards those Templars are.
Wouldn't surprise me if the door wouldn't keep any abominations inside the Tower, they just believe it because that is the only thing they can do to not do in their pants and run for their momma.
Sounds like a moderate to me. =)
Sounds more like she's as impressionable as silly putty.
You know, every time I replay Broken Circle the only thing that comes to my mind is how incompetent and cowards those Templars are.
Wouldn't surprise me if the door wouldn't keep any abominations inside the Tower, they just believe it because that is the only thing they can do to not do in their pants and run for their momma.
You do realize that a horde of abominations are very difficult even for Templars lore-wise right?
Saint Bethany doesn't count towards anything. She'll fervently believe whatever Hawke wants her to, or at least fall into his/her camp.
She's an example of your slightly above average mage, nothing more, nothing less.
Thus why I make her a warden. It makes sense for her to be pretty apathetic then.
Saint Bethany doesn't count towards anything. She'll fervently believe whatever Hawke wants her to, or at least fall into his/her camp.
She's an example of your slightly above average mage, nothing more, nothing less.
Pretty much, even as Warden or Circle Mage she can be of the belief that the Circles are for the best and the Templars exist for a reason.
She isn't indicative of anything beyond the PC's own position on the issue.
...Still wish she was a romance option though, Dragon Age two would have been SO much better if you could cross that line 
You do realize that a horde of abominations are very difficult even for Templars lore-wise right?
Yeah I hate how they're pretty much canon fodder in game and too stupid to even use magic most of the time while lorewise that shouldn't be the case.
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