1305 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Also assuming the clan can't think for themselves Lob? Really?

You realize Marethari explicitly says she told everyone that Merrill would bring back the taint, right?

No He's telling her she's wrong to persude the reconstruction of an object he knows nothing about using bloodmagic learned from a demon in the middle of a crowded city.

Blood magic isn't used in the construction; it was used to cleanse the shard of the taint, which Merrill made perfectly clear.

Merrill doesn't know what the damn thing will do once activated either so let's not pretend Hawke's the only one working in ignorance.

Per WoG, Merrill has studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard; she's more informed about the Eluvian than anyone else in the narrative of Kirkwall.

She has bits of lore and is working with guesswork. Let's not act like she knows everything there is to know about eluvian's. She doesn't even know how to activate the thing or what it will do once activated.

I never claimed Merrill knew everything.

So yeah it's hardly "human knows better cause human" scenario especially when the majority of people against it are the same race as Merrill.

The clan was told by Marethari that Merrill would bring back the taint, and Hawke is right there during the blowup Merrill has over what Marethari told the clan.

It's far closer to a "using dangerous means with potentially dangerous technology isn't wise." which it isn't.

It's actually more apt to a human telling an elf that she's wrong about something that he knows nothing about, except that Marethari opposes it because she thinks the taint may return, while Merrill explained that she had cleansed the shard of the taint. Either way, Hawke isn't in a position to know anything about this elven artifact, aside from what Merrill and Marethari have said on the matter. He's literally in a place of ignorance about the Eluvian.

[Master Warder Z_]

Fair enough. Lord knows that you need alcohol when frequenting this site some times. And Lambert cosplay? Cool man.

 

Yeah i put the greaves together with this Cermanic composite polymer that i applied to to a plastic inlay and then proceeded to paint it matte black. The chest plate was tricky considering i had only a few rough sketches to go by and the artwork from Asunder but i do this pearlish gray coloring atop the plastic compisite once it was hardened and then attached the pauldrons and shoulderguards. The big issue was getting the Seeker symbol on their right, i ended up just stenciling it on the Armor. The boots were these fine dark leather ones i had left over from my Sith Lord cosplay and the Sword was merely the same one i used when cosplaying as Cullen.

 

Oh and i added it off with this thick cotton, short cape that i had spent a week dying.

 

It came together pretty well, i got a few pictures left over from Dragon Con.

 

EDIT: I completely left out the bloody Gauntlets and arm mail ._.

 

Anyway if you all would like, I will dig up the flashdrive the crap was on when i get back to my house.

 

Cause of course i don't have it here with me at my Aunt's.

[LobselVith8]

Again that doesn't change what she told you of how they treated her before she even learned bloodmagic. They weren't fond of her to begin with.

Because this concerns the issue of reconstructing the Eluvian?

As for what the Eluvian would do once activated...we have no idea what it would've done. Maybe it would've been harmless maybe it would've lead somewhere it shouldn't.

So you're saying Hawke took stabs in the dark about something that he, quite frankly, knew relatively nothing about?

And I can't speak for the lore Merrill read up on, or what information precisely that she managed to obtain from the shard, as the player isn't privy to this.

[MisterJB]

I proved Jedi's original objection to my post incorrect. You then jump in and start going about 'throwing pieces off the board' and 'interpretation' all the while having not a thing even supporting such statements.  

 

You knew that I was correct and hid behind 'interpretation' despite Bethany word of mouth telling you that you're wrong. You then proceed to soil your trousers over the very notion that you are incorrect. 

 

 

And no I didn't. You can take that for what you will. I'd be much more direct if I were attacking you.

Jedi's objection to your post was about wrong you were in claiming that not believing the Maker wishes mages to be locked up is the same as believing the Maker has given her (Bethany) a divine mission to free the mages as I already proved in a previous post. It never had anything to do with her opinion on the status quo.

 

 

I think Bethany's reaction to pro templar Hawke makes a little more sense when you consider what she just saw Orsino, who she clearly trusted, admit to aiding the person who killed her mother and just morph into a massive undead monstrosity to try to kill her only other sibling.

 

On the Pro-Circle side, she doesn't exactly say the Maker gave her a mission to free mages, she says she no longer believes it is his will they be locked up.

Which is pretty much the same sentiment.

No it isn't.

 

That you continue to refuse to acknowledge this or present any argument whatsoever only solidifies how right I am in my accusations against you.

In fact, I never once claimed she approved of the status quo in the Mage Ending so your claims that you have proven me wrong are laughable.

Shall I also quote my own posts? What is the point, you will continue to act as if this doesn't exist.

 

[BlueMagitek]

It's almost like the Dalish system relying on a Keeper is, like, awful and stuff when your views conflict with the Keeper's.

 

Fancy that.

[LobselVith8]

?? There was nothing snide or offensive in my comment? Just stating that Merrill is one of your favorite characters? You yourself have stated that you hope Merrill is regarded as a dalish hero for the eluvian.

Your dismissive attitude about my previous statement, and being intentionally dishonest about the deification of Merrill when I've said literally nothing of the kind, were snide and offensive. I don't care for it.

Merrill is most certainly flawed and imperfect. She may have been wrong about the Eluvian; I've never denied that. That doesn't change the fact that Merrill put the time and effort into understanding as much as she could about the Eluvian, while Hawke formulates a judgement based on a few sound bytes.

Hawke is in the dark about this elven artifact, and Merrill - right or wrong - is the only one who we know that spent any time understanding as much about these artifacts as she could.

Having a human telling a non-human she's wrong about something that he's ignorant about simply makes that trope come across to me. Frankly, I don't see why I even need to defend how it came across to me to begin with.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...

You realize Marethari explicitly says she told everyone that Merrill would bring back the taint, right?

 

I'll say it once again. They weren't fond of her before that as Merrill tells you herself.

 

It isn't a complete turn around in character that they want her away from them. They weren't merrill's friends or really liked her before then.

 

Also considering the chance that the Eluvian could lead to somewhere that'll spread the taint I'd say it was a valid concern for Marethari to have.

 

 

Blood magic isn't used in the construction; it was used to cleanse the shard of the taint, which Merrill made perfectly clear. Per WoG, Merrill has studied the lore and extrapolated information from the shard; she's more informed about the Eluvian than anyone else in the narrative of Kirkwall.

 

If she only used bloodmagic once it'd be a complete non issue. She clearly is constantly practicing the art. But alright assuming she's constructing it without bloodmagic other than that one shard. That doesn't stop the concern of her rebuilding that once spread the taint (cleansed or not) in the middle of a crowded city.

 

You say the latter like it means much considering all of them don't even know how the thing functions. It's like saying 1 student in the elementary class knows how a Nuclear weapon works more than the rest. Well sure but they're all pretty damn ignorant of how it actually works.
 

 

 

I never claimed Merrill knew everything.

 

You keep saying she knows more than everyone else as though it's a significant amount of information. It isn't.
 

 

 

The clan was told by Marethari that Merrill would bring back the taint, and Hawke is right there during the blowup Merrill has over what Marethari told the clan.

 

And there's a chance the Elvuian being fixed could lead back to wherever had the taint originally. Small chance? Maybe but the things are teleporters.

 

 

 

It's actually more apt to a human telling an elf that she's wrong about something that he knows nothing about, except that Marethari opposes it because she thinks the taint may return, while Merrill explained that she had cleansed the shard of the taint. Either way, Hawke isn't in a position to know anything about this elven artifact, aside from what Merrill and Marethari have said on the matter. He's literally in a place of ignorance about the Eluvian.

 

Except he'd be telling her the same thing if she was human. Her race has nothing to do with anything other than her wanting to fix the Eluvian cause it's elven history. Also he was told the thing spread the taint and Merrill has "cleansed" it and wants to build another one in the middle of a crowded city in the least defended and likely to take care of itself as well as congested part of the city she fully admits to not knowing what it'll do once fully built and he has no right to be concerned about this? Are you serious?

 

 

Edit: I'm have more than the allowed blocks of quoted text? WTF BW. FINE I'll combine some of them. god that's stupid.

[Ryzaki]

Because this concerns the issue of reconstructing the Eluvian?


So you're saying Hawke took stabs in the dark about something that he, quite frankly, knew relatively nothing about?

And I can't speak for the lore Merrill read up on, or what information precisely that she managed to obtain from the shard, as the player isn't privy to this.

 

Because you said Marethari turned them against her. Can't do that if they were never on her side to begin with.

 

Like Merrill did? Once again she doesn't even know what the thing will do. She just goes on and on about how it'll somehow "save" her people and never bothers explaining why (one would think with all the arguing she and rival Hawke does if she had good reasons for doing it. She'd clarify. But she doesn't. And I'm heavily inclined to believe she doesn't know what it'll do other than something. And that's not a good enough excuse to rebuild it in the middle of a crowded city when one of those somethings could be the same disaster that happened from the beginning but not isolated in a forest).

 

We know how much it wasn't though. She doesn't know what it'll do once activated. Trying to make her out to be a scholar while Hawke's the ignorant hick bleating about evil technology is just...meh.

 

I could see that attitude if she was doing it somewhere other than the middle of an alienage. Then fine she can experiment to her heart's content.

[GVulture]

Saying that Merrill is the expert on the eluvian is like saying that Merrill is the expert on say... damn... not a real world analogy. But while she may have studied and studied and studied we know that her knowledge base is still woefully lacking. The only ones that can claim to know about an eluvian would be Morrigan, the only person we know to successfully create one. She was using knowledge she stole from another Dalish clan, and Merrill herself says that communication and knowledge about things like that is difficult to obtain cross-clan because the exchanges can only be done at gatherings. Which the Sabrae clan has been completely cut off from since their flight from Ferelden (thanks, Flemeth). So, Merrill, canonically, is the one that knows the most of her clan but considering that Merrill herself ADMITS she doesn't know as much as she needs to...

 

Also, the taint came from within the Eluvian when Tamlen and the Warden touch it. So I think her Keeper has a very valid concern that the taint might return once Merrill restores the mirror. Merrill can't answer where the taint originally came from so she has NO WAY of knowing if it might come back. End of story.

 

I know you think she is without faults, but her whole obsession with the eluvian and her stubbornness about it is her defining character trait. Ignore all you want, but it is still there.

 

Also, having just completed a rival path Hawke with her, I managed to do the entire thing without once brow beating her or calling her stupid or with Hawke saying she knows better than Merrill. My rival path with Merrill went like this: "Blood magic is dangerous, are you sure you have control?" ((RIVAL POINTS)) "You should listen to your Keeper, she is your Keeper for a reason." ((RIVAL POINTS)) "Sorry, Merrill... I don't know enough about this to be comfortable giving you the knife... ((RIIIIIVAL POINTS)) And then when all the crap went down in Act III Hawke was nothing but supportive. When you say that going Rival with Merrill is breaking her (while there is that option too, I guess) but the alternate Rival Path can be viewed as not enabling someone who is on a path to self destruction.

[EmissaryofLies]

Jedi's objection to your post was about wrong you were in claiming that not believing the Maker wishes mages to be locked up is the same as believing the Maker has given her (Bethany) a divine mission to free the mages as I already proved in a previous post. It never had anything to do with her opinion on the status quo.

 

That you continue to refuse to acknowledge this or present any argument whatsoever only solidifies how right I am in my accusations against you.

In fact, I never once claimed she approved of the status quo in the Mage Ending so your claims that you have proven me wrong are laughable.

Shall I also quote my own posts? What is the point, you will continue to act as if this doesn't exist.

 

 

Just like you'll continue to act like that video doesn't exist. 

 

"No longer his will they be locked up" "free my fellow mages". Does the woman need to wear a sign? Did you even click on the vid? There are specific time frames provided for your own convenience. And at the absolute least the video at least provides support of my claims, while you have pretty much nothing.  Because she did not state 'divine mission' verbatim does not mean it is not so, or that it does not equivocate to. THE. SAME. ******. THING. THE SAME OUTCOME. The same damned sentiment. Free mages. 

 

I said I was not going to argue semantics and here we are flinging filth at each other. 

 

I will not agree to disagree, because there's nothing to reasonably disagree about. I am correct. You are not correct. 

 

 

I would advise you to take it like a man. 

 

 

 

Have a great day, MisterJB. 

[Shadow Fox]

Hawke is a mage and/or raised in a family of mages s/he's far from ignorant about the potential consequences of dangerous magic Lobselvith.

[GVulture]

Hawke is potentially a mage or raised in a family of mages s/he's far from ignorant about the potential consequences of dangerous magic Lobselvith.

Exactly so, you don't think that Malcolm trained his children carefully about these things? It's honestly the only way to role play a Pro-Templar Hawke. "Must be careful. Blood magic and demons are bad. Don't draw attention, but still help when you can."

[Ryzaki]

Saying that Merrill is the expert on the eluvian is like saying that Merrill is the expert on say... damn... not a real world analogy. But while she may have studied and studied and studied we know that her knowledge base is still woefully lacking. The only ones that can claim to know about an eluvian would be Morrigan, the only person we know to successfully create one. She was using knowledge she stole from another Dalish clan, and Merrill herself says that communication and knowledge about things like that is difficult to obtain cross-clan because the exchanges can only be done at gatherings. Which the Sabrae clan has been completely cut off from since their flight from Ferelden (thanks, Flemeth). So, Merrill, canonically, is the one that knows the most of her clan but considering that Merrill herself ADMITS she doesn't know as much as she needs to...

 

Also, the taint came from within the Eluvian when Tamlen and the Warden touch it. So I think her Keeper has a very valid concern that the taint might return once Merrill restores the mirror. Merrill can't answer where the taint originally came from so she has NO WAY of knowing if it might come back. End of story.

 

I know you think she is without faults, but her whole obsession with the eluvian and her stubbornness about it is her defining character trait. Ignore all you want, but it is still there.

 

Also, having just completed a rival path Hawke with her, I managed to do the entire thing without once brow beating her or calling her stupid or with Hawke saying she knows better than Merrill. My rival path with Merrill went like this: "Blood magic is dangerous, are you sure you have control?" ((RIVAL POINTS)) "You should listen to your Keeper, she is your Keeper for a reason." ((RIVAL POINTS)) "Sorry, Merrill... I don't know enough about this to be comfortable giving you the knife... ((RIIIIIVAL POINTS)) And then when all the crap went down in Act III Hawke was nothing but supportive. When you say that going Rival with Merrill is breaking her (while there is that option too, I guess) but the alternate Rival Path can be viewed as not enabling someone who is on a path to self destruction.

 

Even AGGRESSIVE Hawke doesn't have "breaking" her options. Can he be smarmy and sarcastic? Yes. Rude? Very much so. But I have yet to see any breaking options in the rivalry romance. So I really don't get where the browbeating remarks come from. And I certainly don't see Merill becoming a delicate mage flower cowering before the big mean Hawke. Hell of all the rivalrymances she's the one who stands up to Hawke the most often!

 

I guess they see Merrill as a much weaker person than I do. *shrugs*

[GVulture]

Even AGGRESSIVE Hawke doesn't have "breaking" her options. Can he be smarmy and sarcastic? Yes. Rude? Very much so. But I have yet to see any breaking options in the rivalry romance. So I really don't get where the browbeating remarks come from. And I certainly don't see Merill becoming a delicate mage flower cowering before the big mean Hawke. Hell of all the rivalrymances she's the one who stands up to Hawke the most often!

Yes! Merrill is not afraid to tell a rival Hawke exactly what she thinks of them. Honestly, my rivalry Merrill it was all, "Honey, I can't make these decisions, for you, but I think your Keeper is only trying to help..." Ooooh so many Rival Points for that one. =p

 

((I think that conversation is when she accuses Hawke of having no business making the decisions for the elves... you have an option to pick that is basically agreeing with her but that you can't let her have the knife anyway because if "your Keeper thinks it is dangerous, you should trust that"))

[Shadow Fox]

Even AGGRESSIVE Hawke doesn't have "breaking" her options. Can he be smarmy and sarcastic? Yes. Rude? Very much so. But I have yet to see any breaking options in the rivalry romance. So I really don't get where the browbeating remarks come from. And I certainly don't see Merill becoming a delicate mage flower cowering before the big mean Hawke. Hell of all the rivalrymances she's the one who stands up to Hawke the most often!

 

I guess they see Merrill as a much weaker person than I do. *shrugs*

Well there's Vengeance subtly threatening to murder you.

[GVulture]

Well there's Vengeance subtly threatening to murder you.

Well, demons gotta do what newly minted demons gotta do.

[Ryzaki]

Yes! Merrill is not afraid to tell a rival Hawke exactly what she thinks of them. Honestly, my rivalry Merrill it was all, "Honey, I can't make these decisions, for you, but I think your Keeper is only trying to help..." Ooooh so many Rival Points for that one. =p

 

((I think that conversation is when she accuses Hawke of having no business making the decisions for the elves... you have an option to pick that is basically agreeing with her but that you can't let her have the knife anyway because if "your Keeper thinks it is dangerous, you should trust that"))

 

Yep that's the one my friendly Hawke/Aggressive ones pick. "I'm not letting you have it." "You're keeping a priceless heirloom of my Clan? You're not even Dalish!" I love that exchange.

 

Well there's Vengeance subtly threatening to murder you.

 

True that's also about the point where Anders is all "I've made a huge mistake" about Chantry Jenga.

[GVulture]

True that's also about the point where Anders is all "I've made a huge mistake" about Chantry Jenga.

Now picturing Anders as a Bluth. Thanks.

 

[Ryzaki]

XD

 

That final rivalry conversation before the Last Straw always punches me in the feels.

[LobselVith8]

Saying that Merrill is the expert on the eluvian is like saying that Merrill is the expert on say... damn... not a real world analogy. But while she may have studied and studied and studied we know that her knowledge base is still woefully lacking.

I recall the point being that she's more informed about the Eluvians than anyone else in the narrative in Kirkwall, in contrast to Hawke's relative ignorance about the Eluvians.

The only ones that can claim to know about an eluvian would be Morrigan, the only person we know to successfully create one. She was using knowledge she stole from another Dalish clan, and Merrill herself says that communication and knowledge about things like that is difficult to obtain cross-clan because the exchanges can only be done at gatherings.

WoG already pointed out Merrill gathered lore on the Eluvian.

Which the Sabrae clan has been completely cut off from since their flight from Ferelden (thanks, Flemeth). So, Merrill, canonically, is the one that knows the most of her clan but considering that Merrill herself ADMITS she doesn't know as much as she needs to...

Merrill said she believes they can help the People, which is why she pursues the construction of the Eluvian.

Also, the taint came from within the Eluvian when Tamlen and the Warden touch it. So I think her Keeper has a very valid concern that the taint might return once Merrill restores the mirror. Merrill can't answer where the taint originally came from so she has NO WAY of knowing if it might come back. End of story.

Marethari used that rationale to coerce Merrill to return to the clan, then completely changed her opposition to the Eluvian in Act III.

I know you think she is without faults, but her whole obsession with the eluvian and her stubbornness about it is her defining character trait. Ignore all you want, but it is still there.

I never said she's without flaws; you might want to actually read what I've written before making those kind of claims about me.

Merrill is focused on helping the People. That's certainly her story arch.

Also, having just completed a rival path Hawke with her, I managed to do the entire thing without once brow beating her or calling her stupid or with Hawke saying she knows better than Merrill. My rival path with Merrill went like this: "Blood magic is dangerous, are you sure you have control?" ((RIVAL POINTS)) "You should listen to your Keeper, she is your Keeper for a reason." ((RIVAL POINTS)) "Sorry, Merrill... I don't know enough about this to be comfortable giving you the knife... ((RIIIIIVAL POINTS)) And then when all the crap went down in Act III Hawke was nothing but supportive. When you say that going Rival with Merrill is breaking her (while there is that option too, I guess) but the alternate Rival Path can be viewed as not enabling someone who is on a path to self destruction.

You're confusing me with an entirely different poster now. You really should do something about that.

[GVulture]

XD

 

That final rivalry conversation before the Last Straw always punches me in the feels.

Yeah... ooof. Then, of course, I warn Cullen (with Anders in the party, THAT WAS FUN) and nothing happens.

[AresKeith]

I miss DAO Merrill

[Ryzaki]

Yeah... ooof. Then, of course, I warn Cullen (with Anders in the party, THAT WAS FUN) and nothing happens.

Ugh don't remind me. My warrior Hawke is just staring at Cullen like "are you serious right now?" that Hawke would've taken the "Screw this I'm outta here." if such a choice had presented itself. Everyone was dead except for Gamlen and honestly he was getting tired of Meredith's breathing down his neck.

[LobselVith8]

Yes! Merrill is not afraid to tell a rival Hawke exactly what she thinks of them. Honestly, my rivalry Merrill it was all, "Honey, I can't make these decisions, for you, but I think your Keeper is only trying to help..." Ooooh so many Rival Points for that one. =p

Letting Audacity loose and then trying to kill Merrill as an abomination - that's not exactly helping her in my book. I guess you have a much better opinion of that kind of logic than I do.

((I think that conversation is when she accuses Hawke of having no business making the decisions for the elves... you have an option to pick that is basically agreeing with her but that you can't let her have the knife anyway because if "your Keeper thinks it is dangerous, you should trust that"))

Technically, Hawke didn't have the right to receive the tool, since Merrill specifically asked for it. Marethari's disregard isn't really new, given how she kept the clan at Sundermount years longer than she was supposed to, and she freed Audacity...

[MisterJB]

Just like you'll continue to act like that video doesn't exist. 

 

"No longer his will they be locked up" "free my fellow mages". Does the woman need to wear a sign? Did you even click on the vid? There are specific time frames provided for your own convenience. And at the absolute least the video at least provides support of my claims, while you have pretty much nothing.  Because she did not state 'divine mission' verbatim does not mean it is not so, or that it does not equivocate to. THE. SAME. ******. THING. THE SAME OUTCOME. The same damned sentiment. Free mages. 

 

I said I was not going to argue semantics and here we are flinging filth at each other. 

 

I will not agree to disagree, because there's nothing to reasonably disagree about. I am correct. You are not correct. 

 

 

I would advise you to take it like a man. 

 

 

 

Have a great day, MisterJB. 

Ah, and just like before, in order to try to prove your interpretation of something, you use nothing but the "something".

No arguments, no correlations, nothing but "it is because I say so".

Never mind how wanting to do something does not, in any way or form, means you are suddenly a fanatic who believe you have a divine mission.

 

So, you just failed at grammar, failed at debating and failed at logic itself.

In resume, you are a failure.

 

Have a nice day.