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[Ryzaki]

Just replayed the Last Straw and yeah I don't see Cullen in that first scene. I could've missed him but I doubt it. Meredith runs off and you fight the remaining templars if you side with the mages.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Except in Ferelden, that was kept in a book that Niall had, who conveniently had been kept in thrall by a sloth demon.

Edit: I also don't think it's necessarily readily available for Templar use since we have only seen it 2x, once during an emergency Annulment and when Lord Seeker Lambert managed to produce a copy.

I was just pointing out they had a counter for it, not that every Templar knows it. 

[Ryzaki]

Talk about hair-splitting.

 

Templars are vulnerable to Demons. If their special powers can't protect them from mere mind control, then what good are they as a ward against possession?

 

What is even the functional difference here? The demon still controls all of their victim's words and actions, just as it does for a mage.

 

Or are you saying Templars should get a pass on possession, because they don't pose as much of an individual threat?

 

The demons only manage to posses the templars in the first place because of possessed mages or did you forget that little tidbit

[Hellion Rex]

Once the demon is dead, so is the thrall. End of danger. With a possessed Templar, they can turn into an abomination at any point because they are the demon. With the added bonus of running around doing demonic things and making thralls! YAY!

Also, please stop ignoring IN GAME lore about only mages are supposed to be possessed by demons. That is like 90% of why they bother with the Circles in the first place. If anyone could be possessed and turned abomination what is the point of being afraid of them?

Technicality. Templars cannot become abominations, only mages can. They are merely possessed people.

[GVulture]

I was just pointing out they had a counter for it, not that every Templar knows it. 

It's part of their training, ja?

[GVulture]

Technicality. Templars cannot become abominations, only mages can. They are merely possessed people.

Aka, thrall.

 

But a thrall isn't the demon itself. It can't go around influencing people or putting more people in thrall. But a templar/mage abomination could. That was the danger in letting Keran go which is completely and totally not the same as what Cullen went through, which was the point. =l

[Hellion Rex]

I was just pointing out they had a counter for it, not that every Templar knows it.

They always talk about how Adralla was this big demon expert who knew crap tons of anti demon magic. More research should have been done on her exploits instead of simply keeping the litany. Lord knows Thedas could probably make use of her knowledge right about now.

[LobselVith8]

Um, Cullen wasn't there with her when she said that. His first appearance in The Final Straw is after the fighting has started in the docks of the Gallows.

Meredith says it again when she confronts Orsino in the Gallows, and he's in attendance.

[Hellion Rex]

Aka, thrall.

No, thralls are merely mentally controlled people. They are not being possessed through the Fade.

[Ryzaki]

They always talk about how Adralla was this big demon expert who knew crap tons of anti demon magic. More research should have been done on her exploits instead of simply keeping the litany. Lord knows Thedas could probably make use of her knowledge right about now.

 

Honestly the whole ban on bloodmagic (and I believe the Chantry in it's stupidity bans basic inside of human body study) is just bleh. I can understand regulating it. Of course. But banning it completely just results in ignorance and only either fools or your enemies having full use of it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They always talk about how Adralla was this big demon expert who knew crap tons of anti demon magic. More research should have been done on her exploits instead of simply keeping the litany. Lord knows Thedas could probably make use of her knowledge right about now.

Agreed.

 

 

Meredith says it again when she confronts Orsino in the Gallows, and he's in attendance.

That means he has no idea a Circle Mage wasn't behind it. Should he just assume Meredith, his superior officer, is lying?

[Hellion Rex]

Honestly the whole ban on bloodmagic (and I believe the Chantry in it's stupidity bans basic inside of human body study) is just bleh. I can understand regulating it. Of course. But banning it completely just results in ignorance and only either fools or your enemies having full use of it.

Preaching to the choir, dear Ryz.

[Ryzaki]

Technicality. Templars cannot become abominations, only mages can. They are merely possessed people.

 

Yes and according to Gaider's quote there's a clear power difference between the two. So it's hardly splitting hairs to not say they're the same.

[LobselVith8]

That means he has no idea a Circle Mage wasn't behind it. Should he just assume Meredith, his superior officer, is lying?

Orsino points out the Knight-Commander condemned the Circle for an act they "did not commit", and Meredith never denies this; her retort is: "The grand cleric is dead, killed by a mage. The people will demand retribution, and I will give it to them."

[GVulture]

No, thralls are merely mentally controlled people. They are not being possessed through the Fade.

From the wiki:

 

 

Abominations are the horrifying result of a demon possessing a mage. However, demons do not only possess the living. When a pride demon takes control of the corpse of a mage, an arcane horror is born, possessing all the spellcasting abilities of a living mage, as well as possessing the ability to heal and even command other animated corpses. Another powerful possessed corpse is a revenant, these are usually possessed by a demon of pride or of desire.

For weaker demons corpses make tempting targets, as the demon cannot sense any resistance. When a sloth demon takes possession of a dead body a shambling corpse is the result. Devouring corpses are held by hunger demons and feed upon the living.

The longer dead also fall prey to possession. A fanged skeleton is a skeleton possessed by a hunger demon. Driven by hunger, these skeletons attempt to consume whatever life they can find and often possess the ability to drain life energy and mana from their victims. Shambling skeletons are possessed by a sloth demon, they are able to use entropic powers against their opponents.

Demons may occasionally possess non-mortal forms to escape the Fade, as well. Trees, for example, may become corrupted. This has the interesting side effect of avoiding the madness usually associated with demonic possession of mortal or sentient beings.^[2]

Despite the numerous examples of demonic possession shades prove that demons do not have to possess in order to cross over. They are demons in their true form. In time, such a demon will learn to drain energy from the psyche of those it encounters, just as they did in the Fade. Once it has drained enough, it has the power to manifest. Such creatures do not seek to possess a host and instead exist as a shadow, feeding off the minds of those it encounters.

 

 

Note the lack of possessing living people other than mages. That's why the Templars are meant to watch over them, because they're supposed to be immune to demonic possession. So, a non-mage can only become a demon's thrall. Not possessed.

[Hellion Rex]

Yes and according to Gaider's quote there's a clear power difference between the two. So it's hardly splitting hairs to not say they're the same.

Indeed. Thank God we have yet to encounter a lore-level abomination, cause that sounds pretty damn scary. I bet it's hard enough to squeeze a demon into a templar's soul, much less be able to exert any real power, due to the lyrium flowing through the veins of the possessed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Orsino points out the Knight-Commander condemned the Circle for an act they "did not commit", and Meredith never denies this; her retort is: "The grand cleric is dead, killed by a mage. The people will demand retribution, and I will give it to them."

So I ask you again: Who should Cullen trust? The Grand Enchanter who could be lying to save his own skin, or his superior officer he has served years with? The answer is obvious, really.

[Ryzaki]

Indeed. Thank God we have yet to encounter a lore-level abomination, cause that sounds pretty damn scary. I bet it's hard enough to squeeze a demon into a templar's soul, much less be able to exert any real power, due to the lyrium flowing through the veins of the possessed.

 

I actually wish they were based off the lore because you have people with the mistaken belief that abominations are cannon fodder. (sadly that's how they're treated in game). The only ones that tend to give any trouble are the pride ones.

 

It really doesn't help that the one abomination you see the most lumbers it's way up to you and pummels you with it's fists like a moron.

[LobselVith8]

So I ask you again: Who should Cullen trust? The Grand Enchanter who could be lying to save his own skin, or his superior officer he has served years with? The answer is obvious, really.

As I pointed out, Meredith never says Orsino was wrong. She even admits one person killed the Grand Cleric. The issue is Cullen knows an entire population of men, women, and children are going to be killed over one single person. It's why I can imagine some wouldn't see him as a moderate.

[GVulture]

So I ask you again: Who should Cullen trust? The Grand Enchanter who could be lying to save his own skin, or his superior officer he has served years with? The answer is obvious, really.

Aye. And then when she presents evidence that she isn't in her right state of mind (trying to murder innocents and turning on Hawke the Lone Sane Person), that is when he brings down the hammer on her.

 

 

 

As I pointed out, Meredith never says Orsino was wrong. She even admits one person killed the Grand Cleric. The issue is Cullen knows an entire population of men, women, and children are going to be killed over one single person. It's why I can imagine some wouldn't see him as a moderate.

The entire end game narrative is a bit of cluster.  But yes, it is problematic when his defining moments of saving grace are missed due to being something he mutters in passing on the off chance you talk to him after major quests and his big one where he tells Meredith the Anullment shouldn't take place. IMO, the scene with the mages and Cullen's Last Stand should've been mandatory and he should've refused to follow her inside the Circle.

[Hellion Rex]

I actually wish they were based off the lore because you have people with the mistaken belief that abominations are cannon fodder. (sadly that's how they're treated in game). The only ones that tend to give any trouble are the pride ones.

It really doesn't help that the one abomination you see the most lumbers it's way up to you and pummels you with it's fists like a moron.

True. I'm hoping we face one of maybe despair. Despair demons are probably gonna be feeding off people like crazy. Hopefully abominations actually use some crazy strong magic in combat to fit the lore better.

[LobselVith8]

Aye. And then when she presents evidence that she isn't in her right state of mind (trying to murder innocents and turning on Hawke the Lone Sane Person), that is when he brings down the hammer on her.

In a pro-mage run, Cullen turns on Meredith for threatening the Champion, who has been killing every templar in his path to make it to the courtyard, and has given no impression he's surrendered or unwilling to resist. It's a very weird moment.

[Ryzaki]

True. I'm hoping we face one of maybe despair. Despair demons are probably gonna be feeding off people like crazy. Hopefully abominations actually use some crazy strong magic in combat to fit the lore better.

 

Oh yeah hopefully the abominations in DAI actually feel like a threat. I don't have high hopes though. We don't have the best track record...

 

Though I would not be upset if I never saw that Saarebas light spell again (or if only my mage Qunari could use it. heheheh) so annoying.

 

Though I wonder if Varric is gonna remain "I'm sick of mages and templars" in DAI. I hope so.

[Ryzaki]

In a pro-mage run, Cullen turns on Meredith for threatening the Champion, who has been killing every templar in his path to make it to the courtyard, and has given no impression he's surrendered or unwilling to resist. It's a very weird moment.

 

To be fair in a pro-mage run Meredith most likely overrules Cullen's desire to spare the retreating mages without Hawke's help. Thus he just saw her slaughter mages perfectly willing to surrender and Hawke a mage he respects who has only helped Kirkwall being threatened by her is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[GVulture]

In a pro-mage run, Cullen turns on Meredith for threatening the Champion, who has been killing every templar in his path to make it to the courtyard, and has given no impression he's surrendered or unwilling to resist. It's a very weird moment.

I know. Giant cluster.

 

Honestly, when I first played Dragon Age 2 I had forgotten that Cullen was an Origins character because I hadn't played a mage Warden yet. So he was just a scared and reactive Templar to me, but one that could be made to see reason (after Enemies Among Us concluded and talking him into letting Keran back in).

 

So, I guess I just paid more attention to him and his arc after my mage Warden run. Playing a Pro-Templar Hawke helps get a lot of his reasoning, by the end of the game it seems like he is already looking to Hawke to guide them.