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[Hellion Rex]

 

Ferelden's templars still practiced Harrowing, Tranquility and summary executions. They aren't what I'd call "tame."

Still more on the liberal side than the Gallows.

[dragonflight288]

There was demonic activity involved; it's his job, and he had a hunch about it.Doesn't matter. He was very friendly to the elves there, thus he was nice to those less fortunate. He could have just left them to deal with it.

 

So this begs the question...in Act 1 of DA2 at the foundry when tracking Ninette, and there was demonic activity there, where the heck were the Templars throughout all of Act 1 and 2?

[AresKeith]

Except in Asunder we had a Seeker who was traumatized in Tevinter trying to be a templar and openly defied the Divine to do his own thing and push his own agenda. Including giving orders to kill witnesses and destroy evidence before he knew what was going on (or that there even was a cure for tranquility being worked on) but decided before he had facts that he didn't want it to exist. 

 

I don't judge an entire group because of the actions of some

 

Ferelden's templars still practiced Harrowing, Tranquility and summary executions. They aren't what I'd call "tame."

 

Which is apart of their order, and they did go extreme like the Kirkwall Templars. So I'd call that pretty tame

[Xilizhra]

Still more on the liberal side than the Gallows.

As was Fascist Italy to its more famous compatriot.

[Ianamus]

Those who unnecessarily do harm to others in the name of order are also evil, even if not terribly concerned with their own advancement.

 

That depends on whether what they do can be defined as necessary or not. 

 

Were mages not locked away in towers at least one person (and probably many more) would have died at some point due to haywire spells or abominations, who would not have died otherwise. Using your argument you could argue that therefore not locking the mages away is evil because it's causing unnecessary harm to others in the name of freedom. 

 

My conculsion, ultimately, is that neither option is "evil". It's a choice of putting the freedom of mages above the safety of the masses or the safety of the masses above the freedom of mages, and neither one is "evil" or "good" because they will both cause people harm eventually.

[Xilizhra]

That depends on whether what they do can be defined as necessary or not. 

 

Were mages not locked away in towers at least one person (and probably many more) would have died due to haywire spells, vindictive people who happened to be mages or abominations, who would not have died otherwise. Using your argument you could argue that therefore not locking the mages away is evil because it's causing unnecessary harm to others in the name of freedom. 

None of the things I cited in regards to the Fereldan Circle were "locked up," and the middle ground between the Circle and total societal integration is vast.

[dragonflight288]

I don't judge an entire group because of the actions of some

 

 

Which is apart of their order, and they did go extreme like the Kirkwall Templars. So I'd call that pretty tame

 

I don't either, but I do look at military organizations and judge the chain of command, which is exactly what the templar and seeker orders are. And if a superior is deemed unfit for active duty, it is the responsibility of their subordinates to declare that they're taking command and remove them from duty. 

 

This is what Cullen does at the end of DA2 regardless of which side Hawke sides with, and whoever Lambert's subordinates were, they had every right and responsibility to take over when it became apparent he was acting against the will of the Divine. 

 

Also, in military, the actions of your subordinates reflects just as much on the superior. If there is a court-marshal, and the superior is found guilty of neglect and/or ignoring the actions of their subordinates, they share the blame and are actually given the lions share of accountability. 

 

It's not blaming the whole for the actions of a few when there is a very clear chain-of-command. Like in any organization or group, the actions of others always is judged as a reflection on their superiors. If their superiors don't investigate it, ensure disciplinary action, and hold their subordinates accountable, they share the guilt.

[AresKeith]

Were mages not locked away in towers at least one person (and probably many more) would have died at some point due to haywire spells or abominations, who would not have died otherwise. Using your argument you could argue that therefore not locking the mages away is evil because it's causing unnecessary harm to others in the name of freedom. 

 

That's why I feel that Mages do need the Circles but they also deserve some level of freedom

[dragonflight288]

I think Bioware writes the Templars as a little too goofy sometimes to be "evil". For every sicko rapist from DA2, there's also a Carrol from DAO. The games have their serious side, but it's also a place to laugh about too.

 

Ah yes, Carroll, the guy who will either accept a bribe of cookies or some 'fun' time with Leliana or Morrigan, the latter scares the pants...er, skirt off of him and the former makes him blush.

 

While excellent comic relief, he's a rather poor example of a dutiful templar. 

[Ianamus]

That's why I feel that Mages do need the Circles but they also deserve some level of freedom

 

I honestly don't know what the best option is, which is why I'm still sitting on the fence. The closest thing I can think of to an ideal solution is a hogwartz-esque circle where mages have to stay and have mandatory training until they reach a certain age and pass some kind of (ideally non-deadly) test. 

[dragonflight288]

That's the thing though.. you can always count on Bioware moderating everything with comic relief. I see no reason to get too serious about the subject. It's all good.

 

Now if only we had an equally comic mage character who isn't Awakening Anders' dialogues with Oghren....

 

You know what, I can't think of any besides a sarcastic mage Hawke. 

[dragonflight288]

Well, I'm logging off the debates for the night. I'm cleaning the carpets at Perkins tonight so I'll be playing some Dragon Age in the remaining hour I've got before I have to go to work. 

[Ryzaki]

That's why I feel that Mages do need the Circles but they also deserve some level of freedom

Agreed mages who passed their harrowing should be allowed to leave the circle just with mandatory visits (like once every month or ever other) and in times of trauma have to spend a few months in the circle with counseling to ensure they don't do something stupid.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Agreed mages who passed their harrowing should be allowed to leave the circle just with mandatory visits (like once every month or ever other) and in times of trauma have to spend a few months in the circle with counseling to ensure they don't do something stupid.

The mandatory visits can even be done with wandering Templars who act akin to parole officers. 

[AresKeith]

Agreed mages who passed their harrowing should be allowed to leave the circle just with mandatory visits (like once every month or ever other) and in times of trauma have to spend a few months in the circle with counseling to ensure they don't do something stupid.

 

I agree, while those mages do pass their harrowings they're still forever at risk of demon possession. 

 

Though I still feel they should still live at the Circle, but can leave and experience the outside world

[Ryzaki]

The mandatory visits can even be done with wandering Templars who act akin to parole officers.

Yep.

I agree, while those mages do pass their harrowings they're still forever at risk of demon possession.

Though I still feel they should still live at the Circle, but can leave and experience the outside world

Yep the visits would be random of course. And never the same person three times a year or in back to back.

That's fair.

[Master Warder Z_]

Agreed mages who passed their harrowing should be allowed to leave the circle just with mandatory visits (like once every month or ever other) and in times of trauma have to spend a few months in the circle with counseling to ensure they don't do something stupid.

 

I would be alright with this, under three separate conditions.

 

1.They never leave the Country their circle is based within.

2. Their blood as usual is taken.

3. And they have to at least be of Enchanter rank.

[Ryzaki]

I would be alright with this, under three separate conditions.

 

1.They never leave the Country their circle is based within.

2. Their blood as usual is taken.

3. And they have to at least be of Enchanter rank.

 

I assumed 2 would always apply honestly XD it's the easiest way for the templars to do the checkins. 1 also is pretty logical. and 3 won't have mages running off right after their harrowing ill equipped for living outside. I'd accept this as long as their time becoming an enchanter is mixed with life skills training as well as magic training. (I.E. they can cook their own meals, clean their own clothes, and so on).

[Master Warder Z_]

I assumed 2 would always apply honestly XD it's the easiest way for the templars to do the checkins. 1 also is pretty logical. and 3 won't have mages running off right after their harrowing ill equipped for living outside. I'd accept this as long as their time becoming an enchanter is mixed with life skills training as well as magic training. (I.E. they can cook their own meals, clean their own clothes, and so on).

 

The location requirement should be pretty obvious, it keeps them in the same region as their circle and within their branch's templars reach. I put that rank requirement as Mandatory because ultimately even senior mages can still fall pray to Demons, Can still give into temptation but at least by this point they have demonstrated a decade or more of competent usage of magic since becoming a circle mage. And its also the easiest way to keep the now mobile mages in check, Checks in aside it keeps them in the sights.

 

I can stomach magic outside of the circle, but i will be damned if i allow the Imperium to be rebuilt when it was torn down once already.

 

To that end i'd keep several restrictions in place, still in place, namely inability to inherent titles, inability to to become nobility and inability to be mobile of their watchers. They can be "free" but they will never be equal, and that's the way it must remain.

[GVulture]

Perhaps I misunderstood here, but Isn't Evangaline now actively fighting on the side of the Mage Rebellion? That would more make her an ex templar to me than a moderate one.

Heh, I wasn't that far in Asunder yet. LOL.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would be alright with this, under three separate conditions.

 

1.They never leave the Country their circle is based within.

2. Their blood as usual is taken.

3. And they have to at least be of Enchanter rank.

For 1, I think they should be able to move to a different country but only after alerting the Circle and reporting in to the new circle when they arrive. That way the Circle can send the phylactery over to the new nation's Circle.

[GVulture]

I agree. The ideal solution, IMO, is to still have Circles but only as Colleges and to serve as halfway houses or hostels for traveling mages. Only because I do think that the Templar's anti-magic and general immune to demonic possession is a good thing to have around the mages still learning how to control their powers. Though I do think that the Templars should be able to do it Lyrium-free. Or better yet, if there were a class of mages that devoted their abilities to the Templar's magics so they could police themselves.  There is something noble about the original oath of the Order of protecting and serving the ones that are meant to protect and serve man.

 

The only necessary evil that exists is the need for collecting mage children to the Circles. If only because it would be decades before the type of understanding would exist within the general populace that would ensure these children would be safe from abuses from mundanes.