1305 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's like saying you have to be a racist to play an Andrastian human.

 

 

Hawke being limited to saying that his mother is with the mother (with the alternate dialogue options not providing the opportunity to express an opposing viewpoint), the religious discussions with Sebastian about the Maker and Andraste, and Hawke telling Feynriel that he hopes the Maker watches over him aren't the same as the invocation of a curse word by an atheist.

Not really. There are accepting humans. But Dalish culture believes humans are the cause of the quickening and that through keeping humans away from them, they will slowly regain immortality. Xenophobia is a staple in their culture. 

 

So maybe he was being nice by saying that for his Andrastian mother. Same with Sebastian and Feynriel. I've had people who believe differently than I do at least humor the prospect rather than just say I'm wrong, thus why I used that example. I hadn't thought of the using it as a curse version.  

[Mistic]

I honestly don't recall Hawke being forced to be overly devout the entire game.

 

He could request a blessing, and he did occasionally mention the Maker if certain dialogue choices were chosen, but overall him believing was a PC choice, Not imposed upon them.

 

Funny, I never had to play an Andrastian Hawke. A few mentions of the Maker here and there, but that's like saying atheists are Christian for saying God. 

 

I will point out now that I've never said that playing a devout Hawke was forced on the players. The question was what would happen if someone wanted to play as an elf but didn't like the Dalish mindset. My answer was the same has happened with the Andrastian mindset and Hawke.

 

We know Hawke is more or less Andrastian. As several posts here have pointed out, that 'more or less' is up to the player. I'm sure the same will happen with a Dalish Inquisitor.

 

Not really. There are accepting humans. But Dalish culture believes humans are the cause of the quickening and that through keeping humans away from them, they will slowly regain immortality. Xenophobia is a staple in their culture. 

 

There's also the Vir Atish'an. Not as popular, but I do think it would make a more palatable Dalish Inquisitor (as I said after reading The Masked Empire preview, screw the Way of Three Trees).

[LobselVith8]

Not really. There are accepting humans. But Dalish culture believes humans are the cause of the quickening and that through keeping humans away from them, they will slowly regain immortality. Xenophobia is a staple in their culture.

 

Your retort is disproven by the clan who took in an abandoned human child who became Aveline the Knight, as well as individuals like Lanaya, Elora, Athras, and Merrill. Even Velanna's clan comments positively when they see her in the company of humans.

 

So maybe he was being nice by saying that for his Andrastian mother. Same with Sebastian and Feynriel. I don't believe in Islam, but I'll be nice and at least act like Allah could exist when talking to Muslims rather than going "He isn't real." I've had atheists do the same for me, thus why I used that example. I hadn't thought of the using it as a curse version.  

 

Feynriel follows his mother's faith, and I'm not inclined to handwave what's explicitly shown on my screen.

[Master Warder Z_]

There's also the Vir Atish'an. Not as popular, but I do think it would make a more palatable Dalish Inquisitor (as I said after reading The Masked Empire preview, screw the Way of Three Trees).

 

I don't view anything vaguely about that as Philosophical or spiritual personally, its about as deep rooted to me as the way of the Halla groomer or Tree cutter in my eye. It seems to me its just a method of thought on the subject.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I will point out now that I've never said that playing a devout Hawke was forced on the players. The question was what would happen if someone wanted to play as an elf but didn't like the Dalish mindset. My answer was the same has happened with the Andrastian mindset and Hawke.

 

We know Hawke is more or less Andrastian. As several posts here have pointed out, that 'more or less' is up to the player. I'm sure the same will happen with a Dalish Inquisitor.

 

 

There's also the Vir Atish'an. Not as popular, but I do think it would make a more palatable Dalish Inquisitor (as I said after reading The Masked Empire preview, screw the Way of Three Trees).

The Hawke part was more a response to the topic you are referring to and not so much you specifically. 

 

As for the Vir Atish'an, that's the peaceful philosophy, yes?

 

 

Your retort is disproven by the clan who took in an abandoned human child who became Aveline the Knight, as well as individuals like Lanaya, Elora, Merrill. Even Velanna's clan comments positively when they see her in the company of humans.

 

 

I'm not inclined to handwave what's explicitly shown on my screen.

So they are hypocritical, then? They want nothing to do with humans unless it serves their interests. Not being aggressive here, genuinely curious.

 

It's not a handwave. 

[LobselVith8]

There's also the Vir Atish'an. Not as popular, but I do think it would make a more palatable Dalish Inquisitor (as I said after reading The Masked Empire preview, screw the Way of Three Trees).

 

I wouldn't blame the philosophy of The Way of Three Trees on how that specific clan chose to interpret it.

[LobselVith8]

So they are hypocritical, then? They want nothing to do with humans unless it serves their interests.

 

Are you for real? Did you read anything I wrote, or were you intentionally ignoring everything to vilify the Dalish in a manner that completely contradicts the lore and the narrative?

 

A clan rescued an abandoned baby and raising her as one of their own. She ended up becoming Aveline the Knight, and changed history for women forever.

 

The Dalish among Zathrian's clan who treat The Warden and his moiety crew with respect don't specifically ask him for anything in return, despite the fact that the clans are nomadic precisely because outsiders have been a threat to their existence for centuries. Helping Elora and Athras is done on the insistence of the player getting them to reveal their respective plight, not the characters themselves, while Lanaya can only offer assistance when her clan to aid against the Blight when her clan isn't suffering from the threat of lycanthrophy.

 

The members of Velanna's clan commented positively on one of their former clanmates being in the company of humans, and then left after a brief conversation with the former First of their clan.

 

None of this warranted your response.

 

It's not a handwave. 

 

No, it's you ignoring the facts to vilify the Dalish as a whole on such an absurd level that I can't take it even remotely seriously.

[AresKeith]

No, it's you ignoring the facts to vilify the Dalish as a whole on such an absurd level that I can't take it even remotely seriously.

 

You really wanna go down that road?

[Master Warder Z_]

You really wanna go down that road?

 

Hana did imply the Dalish were less then the supreme rulers if Thedas Ares.

 

I am surprised he didn't quote Godwin's law on her.

[LobselVith8]

You really wanna go down that road?

 

Absolutely. I'm still waiting for you and the other pro-templars to actually provide any developer statement or citation from WoT that supports the claim that the Chantry version is the correct version of the fall of the Dales. I, on the other hand, actually provided the abbreviated entry from WoT showing it's an incredibly abridged version of the events.

 

Hana did imply the Dalish were less then the supreme rulers if Thedas Ares.

 

I am surprised he didn't quote Godwin's law on her.

 

I called you out for calling the Dalish clans 'klans' and using 'master race' in obvious attempts at baiting people who disageed with your views on the Dalish.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Are you for real? Did you read anything I wrote, or were you intentionally ignoring everything to vilify the Dalish in a manner that completely contradicts the lore and the narrative?

 

A clan rescued an abandoned baby and raising her as one of their own. She ended up becoming Aveline the Knight, and changed history for women forever.

 

The Dalish among Zathrian's clan who treat The Warden and his moiety crew with respect don't specifically ask him for anything in return, despite the fact that the clans are nomadic precisely because outsiders have been a threat to their existence for centuries. Helping Elora and Athras is done on the insistence of the player getting them to reveal their respective plight, not the characters themselves, while Lanaya can only offer assistance when her clan to aid against the Blight when her clan isn't suffering from the threat of lycanthrophy.

 

The members of Velanna's clan commented positively on one of their former clanmates being in the company of humans, and then left after a brief conversation with the former First of their clan.

 

None of this warranted your response.

 

 

No, it's you ignoring the facts to vilify the Dalish as a whole on such an absurd level that I can't take it even remotely seriously.

I edited in that I didn't mean for that to come off as aggressive. I'm sorry for that.

 

Well, that's not entirely true. Zarathian asks the Warden to cure the curse before helping with the Blight, hoping the Warden will handle his problem for him, thus 'serving their own interests'. 

 

You mean the Velanna they exiled so didn't want her around anymore? When you want someone to take something you don't want, you act nice about it. Otherwise they pose questions and may not get rid of your burden for you.

 

I'm not trying to vilify the Dalish. I asked out of genuine curiosity, nothing more and nothing less. 

[Master Warder Z_]

 

I called you out for calling the Dalish clans 'klans' and using 'master race' in obvious attempts at baiting people who disageed with your views on the Dalish.

 

 

That's your own flawed interpretation of events anyway.

 

Anyway stop derailing the thread lob.

[Master Warder Z_]

Why is it that anyone who you see as Anti-Dalish are also immediately Pro-Templar?

 

._. I am also curious about that.

 

Seems like a massive leap in logic, but given who its coming from...not overly surprised.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

._. I am also curious about that.

 

Seems like a massive leap in logic, but given who its coming from...not overly surprised.

You quoted a post I hid to not derail the thread further. Cool. 

 

But yeah, that's like saying anyone who is Anti-Orlais is immediately Pro-Mage. 

[Hellion Rex]

You quoted a post I hid to not derail the thread further. Cool. 

 

But yeah, that's like saying anyone who is Anti-Orlais is immediately Pro-Mage. 

I'm sorry, but whaaaa?

[EmissaryofLies]

._. I am also curious about that.

 

Seems like a massive leap in logic, but given who its coming from...not overly surprised.

 

 

Not necessarily.

 

There is a heavy correlation. Especially from the more prominent Pro-Templars. 

[AresKeith]

 

Absolutely. I'm still waiting for you and the other pro-templars to actually provide any developer statement or citation from WoT that supports the claim that the Chantry version is the correct version of the fall of the Dales. I, on the other hand, actually provided the abbreviated entry from WoT showing it's an incredibly abridged version of the events.

 

 

I called you out for calling the Dalish clans 'klans' and using 'master race' in obvious attempts at baiting people who disageed with your views on the Dalish.

 

 

I'm not pro-templar and I don't think any version is correct

[Hellion Rex]

I'm not pro-templar and I don't think any version is correct

Hmm...you're one of them neutrals, are ye?

[AresKeith]

Hmm...you're one of them neutrals, are ye?

 

Why did I read that in a Southern accent 

[EmissaryofLies]

I'm not pro-templar and I don't think any version is correct

 

 

You're not Pro-Templar just as I'm not Pro-Mage. 

 

I finally understand. 

[Hellion Rex]

Why did I read that in a Southern accent 

Cause I wrote it specifically that way. And sometimes I slip into muh Southen' drawl.

[Hellion Rex]

You're not Pro-Templar just as I'm not Pro-Mage. 

 

I finally understand. 

Lies. There are no neutrals. YOU MUST CHOOSE. You are either one of us...or one of them.

[LobselVith8]

You quoted a post I hid to not derail the thread further. Cool. 

 

But yeah, that's like saying anyone who is Anti-Orlais is immediately Pro-Mage. 

 

I'm well aware of what the poster has written in the past, and their post to me was about my stance on the fall of the Dales. I've repeated pointed out that there's been no developer comment addressing either the Chantry or Dalish historical account being the correct one, and WoT is intentionally ambiguous (as well as brief) in the entry addressing the fall of the Dales. Apparently, some pro-templar players are insistent that the Chantry version is the correct one, despite having no developer comments to support that assertion.

[wcholcombe]

Lies. There are no neutrals. YOU MUST CHOOSE. You are either one of us...or one of them.

Not really, my Hawke took a walk and left Meredith and Orsino sitting on their haunches wanting to know who I would back.  That right there is how you fight the plot.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm well aware of what the poster has written in the past, and their post to me was about my stance on the fall of the Dales. I've repeated pointed out that there's been no developer comment addressing either the Chantry or Dalish historical account being the correct one, and WoT is intentionally ambiguous (as well as brief) in the entry addressing the fall of the Dales. Apparently, some pro-templar players are insistent that the Chantry version is the correct one, despite having no developer comments to support that assertion.

So because a couple Pro-Templar people think that way, you think all think that way? You shouldn't blanket statement an entire group for the views of a couple members.