1305 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I'll still be reaching for an independent Dales where the elves can be their own masters. No purges, no religious persecution over the elven pantheon, no more living in dilapidated ghettos or wandering for safety.


It's more reachable a goal than humans giving up their prejudices against elves. As Duncan admitted, it's hard to dissuade humans who grew up seeing elves as less than people.

 

That's great but as I said already my CEs want to stay where they feel at home just without the BS. And living under Dalish rule with dalish laws while an improvement is not what they want.

 

As for reachable goals if you throw your hands up cause somethings too hard no one would've ever gotten anywhere. Step by step. It's not going to be something that happens quickly. It may be difficult but it's not going to change til someone makes an attempt.

[Hellion Rex]

She was a skilled warrior, charismatic leader and brilliant strategist that knew how to capitalize on the weaknesses of the Imperium.

Yes, JB. That too. I don't believe she was divine though.

[MisterJB]

Yes, JB. That too. I don't believe she was divine though.

Neither do I. But I also don't believe she was a mage.

[Hellion Rex]

Neither do I. But I also don't believe she was a mage.

Then what about the "miracles" she supposedly performed? Do you think it was mere hyperbole?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's what I said: leaders among the Dalish elves and elves living in the occupied kingdom of the Dales. There are more elves living in the Dales than humans.

I'm talking more culture wise. Not all elves want to live with a Dalish-dominant culture. An example:

 

I'll still be reaching for an independent Dales where the elves can be their own masters. No purges, no religious persecution over the elven pantheon, no more living in dilapidated ghettos or wandering for safety.

What of those elves who don't want to believe in the Pantheon? Will their religious beliefs be respected just as much, or will they simply be persecuted for not believing what the Dalish believe?

[EmissaryofLies]

I bet Andraste was a ho. 

 

The bs miracles, the fancy name, everyone fawning over her. 

 

 

She was a ho. 

[MisterJB]

Then what about the "miracles" she supposedly performed? Do you think it was mere hyperbole?

The "miracles" mentioned were never specified as something like "Andraste threw her hands in the air and several fireballs appears". Rather, their descriptions can easily match drougths and deluges:

 

"The Maker kindled the sun's flame, scorching the land. Their crops failed, and their armies could not march. Then He opened the heavens and bade the waters flow, and washed away their filth."

 

which could be attributed to Andraste having a keen understanding of meteorology and knowing when and where these disasters would happen and thus where and when her armies should attack.

Which is what I'd prever, BTW. I'll pick brains over divine favor any day of the week.

[Hellion Rex]

The "miracles" mentioned were never specified as something like "Andraste threw her hands in the air and several fireballs appears". Rather, their descriptions can easily match drougths and deluges:

 

"The Maker kindled the sun's flame, scorching the land. Their crops failed, and their armies could not march. Then He opened the heavens and bade the waters flow, and washed away their filth."

 

which could be attributed to Andraste having a keen understanding of meteorology and knowing when and where these disasters would happen and thus where and when her armies should attack.

Which is what I'd prever, BTW. I'll pick brains over divine favor any day of the week.

Next thing you know, they'll be excommunicating you.

[Master Warder Z_]

Next thing you know, they'll be excommunicating you.

 

Actually i think the Chantry would prefer her being smart over being a mage...

[LobselVith8]

I'm talking more culture wise. Not all elves want to live with a Dalish-dominant culture. An example:

What of those elves who don't want to believe in the Pantheon? Will their religious beliefs be respected just as much, or will they simply be persecuted for not believing what the Dalish believe?

I don't think the elves who live in the Dales follow the elven pantheon, so I don't see why they would persecute followers of the Andrastian faith if they were among the new leaders of an independent Dales.

[Hellion Rex]

Actually i think the Chantry would prefer her being smart over being a mage...

Bah. They're still hung up over her being "divine".

 

 

And JB, meteorology? She'd have to be wicked smart, and not just that, but extremely cunning. If it was all a farce, she was a damned good actor, and managed to create her own cult, which would later grow into the Chantry.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't think the elves who live in the Dales follow the elven pantheon, so I don't see why they would persecute followers of the Andrastian faith if they were among the new leaders of an independent Dales.

 

Despite them not viewing Non Dalish elves as basically human? Hence the whole racial slur "flat ear"

 

Would they even consider CE's there to be elven?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think the elves who live in the Dales follow the elven pantheon, so I don't see why they would persecute followers of the Andrastian faith if they were among the new leaders of an independent Dales.

Well, you left that out is al I'm saying. You said there'd be no religious persecution for the believers of the Pantheon instead of just no religious persecution at all.

[LobselVith8]

Well, you left that out is al I'm saying. You said there'd be no religious persecution for the believers of the Pantheon instead of just no religious persecution at all.

It's because the elven pantheon is outlawed while the Andrastian faith isn't, so I thought it made more sense to differentiate how an independent Dales would contrast to the plight faced by the Dalish and the elves in human societies.

I've also phrased it as "the elves of the Dales" since the humans in the Dales seem to seclude themselves in their own districts (given the high population of elves in the region, I'd imagine).

[pallascedar]

Despite them not viewing Non Dalish elves as basically human? Hence the whole racial slur "flat ear"

 

Would they even consider CE's there to be elven?

 

Eh, there are a lot of Dalish elves. Some are more accepting of City Elves than others.

 

I don't think that the Dalish would outlaw the worship of Andraste, but I also think that any City Elves who didn't immediately embrace Dalish beliefs would face a lot of negative terribleness. 

[Xilizhra]

Well, you left that out is al I'm saying. You said there'd be no religious persecution for the believers of the Pantheon instead of just no religious persecution at all.

There will be no persecution of Andrastians in my vision, provided they don't try to convert anyone or unduly harass mages.

[LobselVith8]

There will be no persecution of Andrastians in my vision, provided they don't try to convert anyone or unduly harass mages.

That would be my primary concern, as there has been tension in the past over the elven religion. The entry on the fall of the Dales by Sarethia, elder of the Highever Alienage, remarks: "But you already know that something went wrong. Our ancestors' worship of the old elven gods angered the human Chantry, which constantly sent missionaries to our land. The Chantry wanted to convert our people to their worship of the Maker, but the Dalish would not submit."

Chantry and templar persecution over religious differences or free mages simply won't fly. But I think the goal of a free Dales can unite them. I can see elven mages, Dalish elves, and the elven inhabitants of the Dales and the far flung Alienages finally having a chance in an independent Dales. A beacon of hope for elves everywhere.

[Master Warder Z_]

That would be my primary concern, as there has been tension in the past over the elven religion. The entry on the fall of the Dales by Sarethia, elder of the Highever Alienage, remarks: "But you already know that something went wrong. Our ancestors' worship of the old elven gods angered the human Chantry, which constantly sent missionaries to our land. The Chantry wanted to convert our people to their worship of the Maker, but the Dalish would not submit."

Chantry and templar persecution over religious differences or free mages simply won't fly. But I think the goal of a free Dales can unite them. I can see elven mages, Dalish elves, and the elven inhabitants of the Dales and the far flung Alienages finally having a chance in an independent Dales. A beacon of hope for elves everywhere.

 

You don't think that Dalish belief that they are the last remnants of their entire race might cause tension between them and non dalish elves? Or is the "Shemlen" religion all you are concerned about.You know, I am not against an Elven state; Said as much several times over but i also don't support the notion of Utopia being feasible.

 

I don't think this vision would be viable in Thedas. Oh not that couldn't manage a state, its just when you get down to it, Elves and the Dalish have ultimately become two different cultures, two different societies and two different peoples. And i think that is something that reduces this pipe dream to the ashes in a waste bin, It ignores that notion.

[Dean_the_Young]

There will be no persecution of Andrastians in my vision, provided they don't try to convert anyone or unduly harass mages.

 

So they need to act like jews, or they will be suppressed like jews.

 

Probably not the religious analog you meant, but not exactly one you're distancing away from.

[TheLastArchivist]

Characters like Alistair, Bodahn and Varric are examples of "moderation", though I would prefer to call it a combination of qualities, such as:

 

modesty

a lot of sense

respect for others, regardless of their origin

keeping your nose out of other people's business (unless when called to meddle)

avoidance to involve oneself in politics or polemic actions

a certain resignation with unchangeable aspects of reality

staying true to one's philosophy of life during times of uncertainty

[Xilizhra]

So they need to act like jews, or they will be suppressed like jews.

 

Probably not the religious analog you meant, but not exactly one you're distancing away from.

The conversion thing works both ways. I'd allow members of either side to choose to convert to the other, but would heavily discourage any attempts to solicit conversions from the other side. At least, that's my initial conception.

[dragonflight288]

Neither do I. But I also don't believe she was a mage.

 

I think there's enough evidence to suggest she was a mage though. Enough of it that I'm actually roughly 60% convinced she's a mage. 

[dragonflight288]

Actually i think the Chantry would prefer her being smart over being a mage...

 

Of course the chantry would. They would prefer anything over their beloved wife of the Maker who cheated on her earthly husband for a divine one being a mage because it was mages in the Tevinter Imperium who apparently committed the original sin. 

[dragonflight288]

Bah. They're still hung up over her being "divine".

 

 

And JB, meteorology? She'd have to be wicked smart, and not just that, but extremely cunning. If it was all a farce, she was a damned good actor, and managed to create her own cult, which would later grow into the Chantry.

 

And multiple other Andrastian cults. Heck, Haven's dragon cult is an Andrastian cult corrupted over time to forget the maker as they accepted a dragon to be Andraste reborn rather than remember the original teachings. 

[Hellion Rex]

Of course the chantry would. They would prefer anything over their beloved wife of the Maker who cheated on her earthly husband for a divine one being a mage because it was mages in the Tevinter Imperium who apparently committed the original sin. 

Well....we kinda did screw up on that one. However, it was 5 (7?) who screwed up the lot of mages everywhere.