1305 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

From your misuse of how often Merrill relies on blood magic to your mischaracterization of what transpired during the scene with the Profane Abomination, I've read what you wrote sufficiently well enough.

 

She does rely on blood magic alot

[Master Warder Z_]

She does rely on blood magic alot

 

Yup.

[GVulture]

From your misuse of how often Merrill relies on blood magic to your mischaracterization of what transpired during the scene with the Profane Abomination, I've read what you wrote sufficiently well enough.

If you say so. She uses blood magic when asked to do anything magical and her belief that she is infallible with her use of it is something FLEMETH calls her on. So, I will disagree with you on the fact that Merrill THINKS she can do no wrong magically. The fact that she thinks she knows better than her Keeper and Asha'bella'nar is kinda proof of that. Or rather, that she thinks her ends justify all that she does. Either way. And maybe you got something different from the Profane scene, but what I got was, Merrill you got this? Of course I do, Hawke. *angry face when her magic fails*

 

Either way, I was not vilifying her use of blood magic. Questioning her own judgement on being able to handle it? Yes. But discussions on her character and blood magic have NOTHING to do with what we were saying. So again. You might re-read.

 

And the scene we were discussing, I wasn't knocking or vilifying her use of blood magic for her test. I was simply pointing out that Merrill AND ANDERS (you keep forgetting I am knocking his test too) is scientifically unreliable until we see it actually detect a demon. End of story. Unless there is WoG or an instance saying that yep it works infaliably, you can't say it is perfect because we have no proof that it wasn't dumb luck.

 

((adding a disclaimer that I like Merrill and I don't hold anything against her character in case you were laboring under the misconception that I was just blindly hating on her. I can like a character and still think critically and criticize their actions because lord knows the Dragon Age games are full of characters that need that critical thinking cap))

[Hellion Rex]

Round and around and around and around we go...

[LobselVith8]

She does rely on blood magic alot

 

Not really. Merrill's main focus is the Eluvian, and blood magic was only necessary to cleanse the shard. Considering that her construction of the Eluvian involved studying the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolating information from the shard, I don't see blood magic as something she relies on a lot.

[GVulture]

Not really. Merrill's main focus is the Eluvian, and blood magic was only necessary to cleanse the shard. Considering that her construction of the Eluvian involved studying the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolating information from the shard, I don't see blood magic as something she relies on a lot.

She uses blood magic to open the path when you first meet her. She uses blood magic on the profane. She uses blood magic to do her "test". Doesn't she use blood magic to stop the Apositute during Enemies Among Us? (if you don't have anyone else around to break the spell for you).

 

She uses blood magic to fix the eluvian primarily, yes, but that isn't the only time she uses it.

[LobselVith8]

If you say so. She uses blood magic when asked to do anything magical and her belief that she is infallible with her use of it is something FLEMETH calls her on. So, I will disagree with you on the fact that Merrill THINKS she can do no wrong magically. The fact that she thinks she knows better than her Keeper and Asha'bella'nar is kinda proof of that. Or rather, that she thinks her ends justify all that she does. Either way. And maybe you got something different from the Profane scene, but what I got was, Merrill you got this? Of course I do, Hawke. *angry face when her magic fails*

 

Merrill never says she's infallible; she even acknowledges that her effort to restore the Eluvian might fail. When she thinks Audacity has escaped from it's prison in Act III, she asks the Champion to accompany her in case she becomes possessed. That's not the sign of someone who thinks they are infallible.

 

Also, Flemeth makes a vague comment to her that can be interpreted in several different ways, let's not pretend that it was something that can be viewed one way.

 

And the scene we were discussing, I wasn't knocking or vilifying her use of blood magic for her test. I was simply pointing out that Merrill AND ANDERS (you keep forgetting I am knocking his test too) is scientifically unreliable until we see it actually detect a demon. End of story. Unless there is WoG or an instance saying that yep it works infaliably, you can't say it is perfect because we have no proof that it wasn't dumb luck.

 

Testing whether there are demons in the blood of a templar recruit is slightly different than electrocuting the recruit to see if they defend themselves.

[GVulture]

Merrill never says she's infallible; she even acknowledges that her effort to restore the Eluvian might fail. When she thinks Audacity has escaped from it's prison in Act III, she asks the Champion to accompany her in case she becomes possessed. That's not the sign of someone who thinks they are infallible.

 

Also, Flemeth makes a vague comment to her that can be interpreted in several different ways, let's not pretend that it was something that can be viewed one way.

 

 

Testing whether there are demons in the blood of a templar recruit is slightly different than electrocuting the recruit to see if they defend themselves.

UGH. She never says she is infalliable but she also never admits that anyone else might be RIGHT about it being a Bad Idea to use blood magic. She is rather stubborn about the whole thing. Anyways, pointless and off topic...

 

Either way, their tests can't be considered conclusive unless they ALSO found a demon that way. Period. Like how in The Thing, no one thinks the electrified wire in a blood sample will detect the thing until the wire finds a blood sample that tried to eat Kurt Russell's face when he used the wire on it. Until a test can detect a POSITIVE it can't be considered a valid test. I don't see how that is a hard concept to grasp.

[EmissaryofLies]

Don't think I've ever seen Merrill use blood magic in an aggressive manner. 

 

As a matter of fact, the manner with she has been shown to use it closely resembles that of the Templar's own utilization of such a 'forbidden' school.

[LobselVith8]

She uses blood magic to open the path when you first meet her. She uses blood magic on the profane. She uses blood magic to do her "test". Doesn't she use blood magic to stop the Apositute during Enemies Among Us? (if you don't have anyone else around to break the spell for you).

 

Bethany and Anders can also aid Hawke in stopping Idunna's mind dominion (as can apostate Hawke without any outside assistance); it's not something that requires blood magic.

 

As I said before, Merrill's primary focus is on the Eluvian; her intellect is the main source of her trying to resolve the dilemma of successfully constructing one, and then trying to resolve why the one she's built remains inert. Blood magic isn't the main story about Merrill, even though she's a blood mage. The fact that Merrill proficiently uses blood magic for several years without succumbing to darker temptations, or losing control of her mind and body, is something that I would commend about the character.

 

She uses blood magic to fix the eluvian primarily, yes, but that isn't the only time she uses it.

 

To be clear, Merrill needs blood magic to cleanse the shard because she lacks the necessary amount of lyrium to cleanse it with ordinary magic. The Chantry has the monopoly on legal lyrium distribution on the surface, after all.

[wcholcombe]

Where is that stupid merry go round from hell when you need it......

[Master Warder Z_]

Where is that stupid merry go round from hell when you need it......

 

*Has stored it away with the Gedo*

 

I honestly have no idea.

[LobselVith8]

UGH. She never says she is infalliable but she also never admits that anyone else might be RIGHT about it being a Bad Idea to use blood magic. She is rather stubborn about the whole thing. Anyways, pointless and off topic...

 

So you think Merrill views herself as infallible because she doesn't concede her own point of view because others disagree with her? I guess she's also stubborn about her refusal to surrender her cultural and religious views on the Beyond and spirits because she's not Andrastian, her support for the rights of mages, her condemnation of slavery, and her initial inclination to defend the Circle of Kirkwall from the Right of Annulment, even if it means she loses her life.

[MisterJB]

Bethany and Anders can also aid Hawke in stopping Idunna's mind dominion (as can apostate Hawke without any outside assistance); it's not something that requires blood magic.

Non-mage Hawke can do it too; I imagine any person with sufficiently strong will can overpower a blood mage's control.

 

 

[Maria Caliban]

Well, it's intellectually dishonest to frame the Chantry as a "neutral party" when their own doctrine makes it clear that they aren't.

 

But yes, point taken.

 

It's intellectually dishonest to say that one position is 'in fact' moderate or extreme.

 

However, if someone is so emotionally or ideologically invested in a viewpoint that they'll spend time arguing online then they are probably unaware of their own intellectual dishonesty.

[Lulupab]

Non-mage Hawke can do it too; I imagine any person with sufficiently strong will can overpower a blood mage's control.

 

I think none-mage Hawke can only gut her instantly (I think only a brief break from mind control). A mage is required to break the control and question her. I might be wrong though.

[AresKeith]

So you think Merrill views herself as infallible because she doesn't concede her own point of view because others disagree with her? I guess she's also stubborn about her refusal to surrender her cultural and religious views on the Beyond and spirits because she's not Andrastian, her support for the rights of mages, her condemnation of slavery, and her initial inclination to defend the Circle of Kirkwall from the Right of Annulment, even if it means she loses her life.

 

 

[GVulture]

 

Bethany and Anders can also aid Hawke in stopping Idunna's mind dominion (as can apostate Hawke without any outside assistance); it's not something that requires blood magic.

I didn't say it was. I asked if she did. What others did has nothing to do with what I said.

 

But again... nothing to do with her test. Which is the actual topic at hand. Not going to discuss her and her blood magic with you anymore since you seem to have this need to defend her against an observation of her character that isn't malicious, but just different than yours.

[wcholcombe]

Non-mage Hawke can do it too; I imagine any person with sufficiently strong will can overpower a blood mage's control.

G's whole point was that when it came down to it Merril relied on blood magic to do it.  Not that that was the only way.

 

Ya'll are getting seriously too worked up about each others opinion of one character.

 

One of ya'll see her as having faults, the other sees her as being ready for sainthood, unlike me , you both like her.  Get over it.

[Master Warder Z_]

I think none-mage Hawke can only gut her instantly (I think only a brief break from mind control). A mage is required to break the control and question her. I might be wrong though.

 

You are wrong in that instance considering i have spared her playing non mage before, with no mages in the party.

[MisterJB]

 her support for the rights of mages,

 

Considering she doesn't know the first thing about human culture and why mages are kept away, she probably shouldn't meddle with it.

 

She equates human mages and their role in society to that of Dalish keepers which they are not.

 

"It seems wasteful for humans to lock their mages away where they can't do any good."

 

Sweetie, our mages enslaved us and even today they kill five year old boys to entertain guest at parties. You're not human or culturally Andrastian so kindly stay out of our affairs.

[Master Warder Z_]

G's whole point was that when it came down to it Merril relied on blood magic to do it.  Not that that was the only way.

 

Ya'll are getting seriously too worked up about each others opinion of one character.

 

One of ya'll see her as having faults, the other sees her as being ready for sainthood, unlike me , you both like her.  Get over it.

 

Combe do you want some hard candy?

[Lulupab]

You are wrong in that instance considering i have spared her playing non mage before, with no mages in the party.

 

Never had party with no mage in it... I did however chose the aggressive option with a mage in party and Hawke gutted her and I had to search the room for evidence. Hawke didn't ask for help in that one.

[wcholcombe]

Considering she doesn't know the first thing about human culture and why mages are kept away, she probably shouldn't meddle with it.

 

She equates human mages and their role in society to that of Dalish keepers which they are not.

 

"It seems wasteful for humans to lock their mages away where they can't do any good."

 

Sweetie, our mages enslaved us and even today they kill five year old boys to entertain guest at parties. You're not human or culturally Andrastian so kindly stay out of our affairs.

Well my reply would have been more along the lines of--Human mages destroyed your culture and used your ancestors for blood batteries, you sure that is the stance you want to take

[wcholcombe]

Combe do you want some hard candy?

Nah I am good.