1305 réponses à ce sujet

[Mockingword]

Yeah but that hubris could only result in the darkspawn because of using magic to enter the golden city. It would be possible for the same thing without being human but not without being a mage.

Well, magic exists as part of the fabric of Thedas. It grows right out of the freaking ground. If there was no magic, there'd be no Golden City, no Fade and probably no Thedas at all.

 

So it's pretty useless to talk about what so-and-so would do or not do if they didn't have access to magic.

 

According to humanity's own lore, they started out as magic-less beings, until they learned the "secret", whether it was Dumat or the Elves. Even if they somehow managed to rid humanity of all the current mages, and no more were born, humans would probably just learn it again, and the cycle would start all over.

 

For my own part, I'm inclined to believe that humans (and elves and Qunari) develop magic as a result of living in Thedas, and that prior to the raising of the Veil, more individuals were magical than not.

[Dean_the_Young]

Er, that 'humanity's own lore' isn't much more than 'contradictory claims started by Tevinter or Elves', each having a historic interest in making the claim as part of the origin story in whichever way makes them look better (Tevinter claiming itself as the origin of human magic to further legitimacy, Elves claiming themselves as the origin to deligitimize Humans). Neither needs to be true, any more than any of the other unverifiable yet strangely self-serving claims made back in ye old days (that Tevinter was the only human civilization or society, that Elves ruled all of Thedas without knowing Humans).

 

The Chantry, which is the only Human culture wide enough and prevalent enough to be able to claim to represent Humanity, doesn't claim to know or particularly care about when/if humans came to be able to practice magic. Relevant magical history begins with Tevinter, the demonic deals to develop blood magic, and the Blight. Past that, the actual creation of mages can stem from the same creation myth they apply to everyone else.

[Ryzaki]

I don't need apology nor anything for that matter from someone who judges individuals based on the things they do in video games.

 

Agreed. It's also laughably hypocritical. They do realize they're playing a game where they slaughter pixel people by the hundreds/thousands? And companions sometimes even have kill counts with each other/the protagonist? Boggles the mind.

[Mockingword]

Er, that 'humanity's own lore' isn't much more than 'contradictory claims started by Tevinter or Elves', each having a historic interest in making the claim as part of the origin story in whichever way makes them look better (Tevinter claiming itself as the origin of human magic to further legitimacy, Elves claiming themselves as the origin to deligitimize Humans). Neither needs to be true, any more than any of the other unverifiable yet strangely self-serving claims made back in ye old days (that Tevinter was the only human civilization or society, that Elves ruled all of Thedas without knowing Humans).

 

The Chantry, which is the only Human culture wide enough and prevalent enough to be able to claim to represent Humanity, doesn't claim to know or particularly care about when/if humans came to be able to practice magic. Relevant magical history begins with Tevinter, the demonic deals to develop blood magic, and the Blight. Past that, the actual creation of mages can stem from the same creation myth they apply to everyone else.

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

My initial point (in response to another poster's assertion that 'magic' should be blamed for the existence of Darkspawn), is that even the Chantry lore lays the blame at the feet of mankind for misusing the tool, not the tool itself.

[Dean_the_Young]

Agreed. It's also laughably hypocritical. They do realize they're playing a game where they slaughter pixel people by the hundreds/thousands? Boggles the mind.

 

Agreed. Personally I'd focus my counter-argument on the point that anyone on this forum is effectively a person who is spending both spare time and money on luxury goods rather than spending either to help the great many people who struggle without either.

 

Video gamers condemning other video gamers on video gaming websites about how they are immoral for what they do in a fictional scenario is just a bit akin to a patron of a Starbucks complaining about another patron wasting food that could go to starving people. There's a certain amount of, shall we say, lack of self-awareness?

 

Ah, good memories.

[Dean_the_Young]

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

That your claim about the origin of human magic is suspect and need not be accepted as a foundation of an argument. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

My initial point (in response to another poster's assertion that 'magic' should be blamed for the existence of Darkspawn), is that even the Chantry lore lays the blame at the feet of mankind for misusing the tool, not the tool itself.

 

 

And?