126 réponses à ce sujet

[Sainna]

Because she is b-...I am joking, don't ban me! She is not that big.

However I am bit worried about her character due to her position in society. You see when first I heard we are getting a pro circle mage I imagined we would get a average mage who could fill us in on the normal life of a normal mage in a common Circle. Talk about the good, talk about the bad and so forth, so forth.
Yet instead we get a pro-circle mage that was destined to be the next leader of the circle, was allowed quite a bit of freedom and navigated the politcal scene like a pro! Now while that is all fine and neat she is like the 1% of the 1% so of course she is pro-circle. It's practically her power base.

I also understand that this could present us ( or well Bioware ) a lovely character that might also be forced (maybe?) change some of her opinions and views on the world. See that many Circles are truly horrible while many others where quite decent and most importantly much needed as mages without training? Dundunnn! But who knows. I guess what I am hoping for is that someone will quote or just confirm that Vivienne will not just be a diva pro-circle mage? As from what I have heard I keep getting the feeling she will be used to shout circle is great! As much as in DA2 many of the templars where used to shout Templars are mostly rapist bastards and abuse the mages who turn into abominations all the time!

I know this is quite the negative view and it's a bit early to judge but hey! I do still hope everything will be great and forums are a fun place to discuss or at least rant about these matters.

[Nefla]

We already had an average pro circle mage: Wynne.

[Mistic]

It's too soon to state anything about the characters. But it wouldn't be so bad, IMHO. For a change, let's have a mage character who is at the top of the ladder and enjoys a very good social standing. I think it's a breath of fresh air after Kirkwall.

[Will-o'-wisp]

I posted something on this topic in the twitter thread in response to someone else a while ago:
 

She wasn't born into her position, she was a mage like every other one and made the best out of it instead of constantly rebelling and crying about being a poor victim. She adapted to her situation and earned her influence legitimately even whithin the circle System that apparently is so restricting to mages. I wouldn't call that spoiled and I wouldn't call her opinion and views any more or less "realistic" than those of mages who might have different experiences.

Also I don't agree with the 99% of mages living in hardship - the fereldan circle always seemed like a rather good place to live in during the origin story and judging by the size of the Aequiarian fraternity (and other things) I don't think being a mage within the circle system is as horrible as some People here make it out to be.

That's why I don't see her as the 1% of the 1%, her point of view is as valid as the one a "normal mage" could give us.

[Mistic]

I posted something on this topic in the twitter thread in response to someone else a while ago:
 

That's why I don't see her as the 1% of the 1%, her point of view is as valid as the one a "normal mage" could give us.

 

That sounds nice, but where does that information come from? I get the feeling that every one is up to date and I'm being left behind

[Sainna]

Still a huge difference to being a normal mage to being one at the top that is allowed much freedom then the rest. But that is just how I see things!

And really a character from the first game is all fine and good but not everyone will have played that.

[Will-o'-wisp]

That sounds nice, but where does that information come from? I get the feeling that every one is up to date and I'm being left behind

Uhm, basically that's common sense, nothing that was revealed. She's a mage, therefor she's been in a circle for her whole life until she was granted the position of Impereal Enchanter, probably for her hard work and immense magical powers and understanding of politics. I doubt she was born a noble and her relatives gave her a little advantage - she would use her last name if it had meaning among the nobility.

[Mistic]

Uhm, basically that's common sense, nothing that was revealed. She's a mage, therefor she's been in a circle for her whole life until she was granted the position of Impereal Enchanter, probably for her hard work and immense magical powers and understanding of politics. I doubt she was born a noble and her relatives gave her a little advantage - she would use her last name if it had meaning among the nobility.

 

Still, that's a lot of assumption. I mean, she may well be of noble blood. She may be a bastard or she may have a very bad relationship with her parents. Heck, as far as we know, she could be noble and your scenario could still happen. For example, if her family turned their backs on her when they found out she was a mage and she had to fight to get even higher than her parents.

[Xilizhra]

Quite possibly she used blood magic to screw with the minds of those outside the Circle who might let her out, keep in mind.

[Maria Caliban]

I also understand that this could present us ( or well Bioware ) a lovely character that might also be forced (maybe?) change some of her opinions and views on the world. See that many Circles are truly horrible while many others where quite decent and most importantly much needed as mages without training?

Vivienne is probably very aware of this.

Her being the 1% of the 1% is not a position she was born into and being a senior enchanter, she is probably more aware of how things are in other Circles than the average mage, not less.

I guess what I am hoping for is that someone will quote or just confirm that Vivienne will not just be a diva pro-circle mage?

I haven't played the game, nor has anyone who's responded thus far. I can list some other characters written by Mary Kirby and you can decide if they tend to be as straight forward or possibly one-dimensional as you're worried Vivienne will be.

- Verric
- Sten
- Merrill

I have found 'who wrote this character previously?' helps inform my expectations for the characters, so maybe it can help yours.

[Roninbarista]

I wonder what pro-Circle really means to Vivienne. While I'm guessing she's down for formal training, I wonder how she feels about templars, the Harrowing, or Circle independence from the Chantry. Do apostates ****** her off? How does she feel about those who wish to restrict the Circle's power and possible growth? 

I don't mind her potential strong point of views that may be for/against my Inquisitor. If she's as politically savvy as I imagine she will work well with others, so long as she respect them.

[BubbleDncr]

I think, if Solas is the elven apostate he seems to be, he'll be very anti-circle. So we would need someone pro-circle like Viviene to help see both sides of the argument. My only hope is that they are equally likeable/interesting so that when they argue with each other, it's hard to pick a side.

 

From what was on the blog today, I think I'll like Vivienne, mostly due to her personality/talent at hashing out insults.

[LobselVith8]

We already had an average pro circle mage: Wynne.

 

That's correct. We also had Finn, I suppose. I think Vivienne's apparent support for the status quo - a system of tranquility and annulments - is something that is going to cause a rift with some players.

[renfrees]

It will be refreshing to not have les miserable as a companion for a change.

[Sainna]

Vivienne is probably very aware of this.

Her being the 1% of the 1% is not a position she was born into and being a senior enchanter, she is probably more aware of how things are in other Circles than the average mage, not less.


I haven't played the game, nor has anyone who's responded thus far. I can list some other characters written by Mary Kirby and you can decide if they tend to be as straight forward or possibly one-dimensional as you're worried Vivienne will be.

- Verric
- Sten
- Merrill

I have found 'who wrote this character previously?' helps inform my expectations for the characters, so maybe it can help yours.

Thank you very, very much!

[Mockingword]

I'm worried too. So far she totally sounds like the Uncle Tom of mages.

 

As a screaming queen, her cattiness and lust for finery should endear her to me, and I love the fact that Boware is continuing to put POC in their main cast.

 

But she just... she just strikes me as a vile, apologist cow. I kinda want to stab her in the face.

[Mr.House]

I'm not worried at all, I hated the fact that both mages in DA2 where pro freedom(while two had different views on that subject) Least in DAO and Witch Hunt we had a pro circle mage to create a even presentation.

[Maria Caliban]

I'm worried too. So far she totally sounds like the Uncle Tom of mages.
 
As a screaming queen, her cattiness and lust for finery should endear her to me, and I love the fact that Boware is continuing to put POC in their main cast.
 
But she just... she just strikes me as a vile, apologist cow. I kinda want to stab her in the face.

When you start by calling a black character an Uncle Tom and end by saying they're a vile, apologist cow you want to stab in the face, I'm thinking you have some serious issues that are bigger than this one character.

[themageguy]

To me, she sounds such a great circle character. Rather than whine about the flaws of the circle system, we have a Mage who seems to accept the pros of the system and will fight for what she believes in.
I like that. Rather than having some Templar, we have a Mage with those views.
My Mage character personally would prefer to have a system in place that sure monitors mages, but allowing them a little more freedom, and to abolish the whole tranquility method.

I can't wAit for this game.

Let's see Sera, the iron bull or bearded guy next month!

[Mockingword]

Wynne wasn't pro-Circle, she was just pro-not getting murdered. She thought the Circle was bad, and wanted it to change, she just wasn't willing to take the needed action until her son's life was threatened.

[Mockingword]

When you start by calling a black character an Uncle Tom and end by saying they're a vile, apologist cow you want to stab in the face, I'm thinking you have some serious issues that are bigger than this one character.

What if I likened her to a gay republican? That's actually the first comparison that comes to mind, and one I made earlier in another thread.

 

Is that acceptable?

[Ihatebadgames]

Have you read Uncle Toms cabin? If not do so.

[Hellion Rex]

What if I likened her to a gay republican? That's actually the first comparison that comes to mind, and one I made earlier in another thread.

 

Is that acceptable?

Do you even know what an Uncle Tom is?

[Mockingword]

Have you read Uncle Toms cabin? If not do so.

I'm familiar, yes. But the epithet does not reference the character as originally presented, and even if it did, the novel is problematic in its own right.

[Mockingword]

Do you even know what an Uncle Tom is?

An epithet used to negatively describe a person who betrays their own group (usually a racial group, but not necessarily so) by participating in its oppression.

 

Coined as a reference to the novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriet Beecher Stowe.

 

But the character of Uncle Tom in the original novel did not behave in the manner that the epithet implies. The meaning comes from derivative works that came later.