479 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

Went for a run tonight and was just mulling things over in my head. Given Bioware's speech at the GDC and also, for example, their interview for RPS http://www.rockpaper...heir-interview/ about taking risks and pushing boundaries, what direction will Bioware take in one of the more 'taboo areas'; namely it being acceptable to show this:

 

 

which is a pretty graphic depiction of someone's head exploding, but when we get to sex, it's suddenly 1950:

 

 

(note: I would post manshep but never played, and Liara is an exception in that she gets completely naked, but even then they remove things like nipples etc, and make judiscious use of camera angles to make it implied. That is actually a freecam shot and not in the game).

You also end up with ridiculous scenes like Samantha and Femshep having a shower together in their underwear; judiicious use of fades to black and mansheps stuck on boxers.

 

This is a game alledgedley aimed at a mature audience (posters on BSN notwithstanding) and deals with some fairly adult and grim themes; Bioware has also made strides in it's depiction of gay people which is something.

So the question is, will Bioware take a risk and get over this final taboo or we will still be stuck in this ridiculous rut of graphic violence = acceptable, nudity = won't someone please think of the children.

 

The problem they will have to deal with is their own issues which still linger:

 

 

and you have to avoid exploitation and nudity for the sake of nudity, and it should be applied with commonsense (for example within the 'romance' section as it sort of is at present). If this is applied equally across both genders (i.e. let's see some penises out there) then i think that would not be so much of an issue. It can't be a one way street of exclusive female oggling, as that is arguably just as bad and shows a complete contempt for 50% of the species.

Also, please note nudity and sex is not pornopraphy, and if you equate the two then you need to have a good think about your life. Also please note I am not syaing we need to have graphic sex scenes, but the jarring effect of two characters obstensibly fully clothed having sex is just stupid.

 

So go on Bioware, take a risk. We are fairly liberal over here in Europe.. just take a look at the Witcher 2 for inspiration for how things can be done with a modicum of taste. If you are going to create an adult game with adult themes, treat us like adults.

 

 

Right, let's go sort this Blight thing out.

[KaiserShep]

I will give this to the soldier class. With adrenaline rush, headshots are pretty much bullet time Gallagher.

 

The shower scene with femShep and Traynor was worse still for the fact that Shepard goes in fully clothed, though Traynor wearing her underwear at all was silly enough.

[Bob from Accounting]

There are countless movies, games and other works of fiction that show plenty of violence and little sex.

 

This is not a 'BioWare attitude.' Nor it is 1950's. That's just ridiculous. It's the overwhelmingly norm in fiction in the United States and likely Canada.

 

So if you're going to attempt to address it, trying to pin in on BioWare is just silly.

 

As is the idea that being 'treated like an adult' means being shown nudity.

[DeathScepter]

here i thought having NPC having their head explode while in their underwear. It would be funny to watch

[von uber]

There are countless movies, games and other works of fiction that show plenty of violence and little sex.

 

This is not a 'BioWare attitude.' Nor it is 1950's. That's just ridiculous. It's the overwhelmingly norm in fiction in the United States and likely Canada.

 

So if you're going to attempt to address it, trying to pin in on BioWare is just silly.

 

Way to misread the topic, David. I am saying I hope Bioware improve the situation, you muppet, based on their own stated objectives.

[DeathScepter]

now this is the miranda's butt thread.

[Bob from Accounting]

When have they ever said their 'stated objective' is to show the player more naked bodies?

[Iakus]

 

 

So the question is, will Bioware take a risk and get over this final taboo or we will still be stuck in this ridiculous rut of graphic violence = acceptable, nudity = won't someone please think of the children.

O wait, is this a call for more toned down violence, or more graphic nudity?

[Bob from Accounting]

By the way, are you sure you know what 'judicious' means? It means done well, with good taste. So calling the fade to black scenes 'judicious' is quite a compliment.

[DeathScepter]

as for me, more Miranda. many problems can be solved with miranda.

[von uber]

By the way, are you sure you know what 'judicious' means? It means done well, with good taste. So calling the fade to black scenes 'judicious' is quite a compliment.

 

Yes., thankyou. From the aspect of not showing something 'naughty' it was done well with good taste (as opposed to big black bars across the scene).

 

The point is that in a game where you have graphic violence, censored nudity is ridiculous given the stated mature audience. obviously this has a long history,; look at the whole 'hot coffee' fiasco.

[Bob from Accounting]

Do you know what 'censoring' means?

 

I can assure you that a fade to black scene is not 'censoring.' Choosing not to show something is not 'censoring.' It's choosing not to show it. 

 

It's not ridiculous at all, and moreso, any claims that a creator is immature for deciding not to show boobies is laughable. If you want to argue this, at least attempt to argue it from a perspective of style. Maturity has nothing to do with this.

[CrutchCricket]

As much as I am loath to admit it David is not 100% wrong this time (at least in his first post). "Gore is fine but get that genitalia away from me" is very much a North American view of inappropriateness.

 

It's complete bullshit of course. Viscera, dongs, whatever. These things exist. Censoring one or both is dumb.

 

Bioware may have at one point been trying to push the envelope, but go too far with realistic depictions of nudity or sex and game publishers start closing their doors as do major game systems and retailers.

 

Given their EA overlords I highly doubt Bioware will be able to push things much further. Just look at the difference between the ME1 sex scenes (and remember their controversy) and the subsequent "romantic" content in the sequels. They also have people like Priestly who once responded to a question of "why is Liara naked but not other models?" with "we're not making a porn game". He then proceed to lock the thread.

[Bob from Accounting]

Once again, it appears some of us need to learn what 'censoring' actually means.

 

Choosing not to show something is not 'censoring.'

[AresKeith]

Way to misread the topic, David. I am saying I hope Bioware improve the situation, you muppet, based on their own stated objectives.

 

lol I like how everyone knows it's him now 

[Iakus]

Why are these threads always outage at the lack of nudity and not at the graphic depiction of exploding head?

[TheTurtle]

They also have people like Priestly who once responded to a question of "why is Liara naked but not other models?" with "we're not making a porn game". He then proceed to lock the thread.

Jeez really that's kind of dick move.

[von uber]

Why are these threads always outage at the lack of nudity and not at the graphic depiction of exploding head?

 

That is also a good point, but I suspect a boat that ha slong sailed. But an exploding head (or scenes of genetic expermentation) is acceptable for a mature audience.

 

Edit to add: I understand the cultural impact of a pair of breasts in America (ironic given the size of their porn industry) or, god fobid, a penis but Bioware sell to a global audience of supposed adults.

Actually, now I recall, wasn't the Witcher 2 altered for the US release?

[KaiserShep]

Just look at the difference between the ME1 sex scenes (and remember their controversy) and the subsequent "romantic" content in the sequels. They also have people like Priestly who once responded to a question of "why is Liara naked but not other models?" with "we're not making a porn game". He then proceed to lock the thread.

 

Lol wut. I guess they figure that Liara transcends pornography. May they never discover the deepest recesses of the fan art community.

[Bob from Accounting]

See, you have a very silly assumption that BioWare must want to graphic nudity and sex, but were frightened not to by the big video game corporations. That's the only possible reason they decided not to show it?

 

Can you conceive the possibility that BioWare might want to have intimate and romantic relationships in their stories, but not be interested in showing explicit nudity and sex?

[KaiserShep]

I think a good alternative is to simply use the camera angles in such away so that things like bra straps can be subtracted from the scene without showing anything, so shower scenes don't look silly. Movies and TV shows do this just fine.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Well, it's because, no matter whether you think it's good or not, violence in movies and games is a norm that we, at least in the US, like to have and don't really mind seeing. If you walk in on someone playing some bloody shooter, you won't think twice. Walk in on someone playing an interactive sex game or something of the like and it's awkward. You never, ever want to walk in on your roommate watching porn. 

Still, the whole underwear in the shower and all that is really, really stupid. Just go to what what would be acceptable in a R rated movie and leave it at that. 

[TheTurtle]

No one is asking them to turn into HBO, but they could at least be a bit more realistic. It's strange having to explain to a friend why someone is in the shower wearing their undwear, and it's even stranger having to explplaein why someone is getting in with the fully clothed.

I think it was the combination of the Fox scandal and EA equiring them that turned them into the game version of the WWE PG era.

[von uber]

Can you conceive the possibility that BioWare might want to have intimate and romantic relationships in their stories, but not be interested in showing explicit nudity and sex?

 

Go re-read what i wrote. i expressly said it's not a case of explicity nudity and sex.

Having a scene where people keep their underwear on in a game aimed at adults is stupid. Tell me, o'wise one, why does Shep stay fully clothed and Traynor have to wear her underwear here:

 

 

It looks bloody stupid, and is bloody stupid in the context of a game that doesn't shy away from scenes of gore or suicide.

[Bob from Accounting]

And the solution is to simply avoid such scenes in the future.

 

Simple and clean.