479 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

Proof of hallucinated delusions that every storyteller in existence who wants to show characters as intimate also wants to show explicit sex. And thus any storyteller who doesn't show sex must be 'pussying out.'

Or more likely, simple overwhelming incompetence.

Given the amount of times you (and you alone) say explicit sex I think it is pretty clear (actually, let's do a you - I can only assume due to your obvious lack of understanding) that you have an issue with this most natural of things.
So stop projecting your own insecurities on others and using it as an argument.

[SwobyJ]

Mass Effect doesn't even give me sex, let alone make it explicit. Some kissing and sitting on each other isn't sex.. lol.

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

Proof of hallucinated delusions that every storyteller in existence who wants to show characters as intimate also wants to show explicit sex. And thus any storyteller who doesn't show sex must be 'pussying out.'

 

Or more likely, simple overwhelming incompetence.

Yeah, you don't get it. In ME1 there was partial nudity during the romance scenes before Ilos. It was not explicit but it was also not bashful. It was obvious that Bioware wanted nudity in the game to an extent. Between ME1 and ME2, there were complaints from people that never experienced the game for themselves about a Mature rated title that depicted obscured, naked, female bodies. In ME2 it was obvious that Bioware had backed down a bit with the depiction of nudity. In ME3, we got a bit of a mixed bag with Liara appearing naked during her sex scene. Makes sense, she's about to engage in a sexual relationship. However, we also got the goofy Traynor shower scene. No one in here is talking about making Mass Effect a game where every romance scene has full nudity (though I really wouldn't mind it). I don't get why people keep suggesting that's what we are arguing for. We are talking about doing it right if you are going to do it. No, not every intimate relationship deems nudity in the game, yet there are moments where it just makes sense.

[ImaginaryMatter]

David when they ban you again for being an impossible tool will you make another alternate account? Maybe a Bob 7402?

 

Or will you just write this whole forum off as undeserving of your obvious greatness?

 

I'm guessing the former, unfortunately. And seeing how this particular reincarnation realized how big of a joke the talks of heroism were and deciding to drop the word, it does mean he has some capacity of learning. So, the next form David will take may be slightly smarter and contain a different bag of vocabulary words. Hopefully, the Knights of Clique will still be there to defend the realm.

[SwobyJ]

I ALWAYS SURVIVE. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF THIS FORM. BSN, YOU ARE ARROGANT. YOU WILL LEARN.

[shodiswe]

Maybe Asari "milk" would be the natural thing that TIM was trying to recreate while creating "Jack". He wasn't aware of it but it already existed. To Asari it helped their babies evolve a natural relationship with the Eezo while growing up as biotics.
With refence to all that talk about breatfeeding women heling their babies build up their immunesystem.

[Bob from Accounting]

Yeah, you don't get it. In ME1 there was partial nudity during the romance scenes before Ilos. It was not explicit but it was also not bashful. It was obvious that Bioware wanted nudity in the game to an extent. Between ME1 and ME2, there were complaints from people that never experienced the game for themselves about a Mature rated title that depicted obscured, naked, female bodies. In ME2 it was obvious that Bioware had backed down a bit with the depiction of nudity. In ME3, we got a bit of a mixed bag with Liara appearing naked during her sex scene. Makes sense, she's about to engage in a sexual relationship. However, we also got the goofy Traynor shower scene. No one in here is talking about making Mass Effect a game where every romance scene has full nudity (though I really wouldn't mind it). I don't get why people keep suggesting that's what we are arguing for. We are talking about doing it right if you are going to do it. No, not every intimate relationship deems nudity in the game, yet there are moments where it just makes sense.

 

My goodness. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

You've completely failed to grasp the notion of what 'makes sense' to exist is entirely irrelevant. What's actually relevant is what the storyteller wishes to show. 

 

Consider the film The Shawshank Redemption. A masterpiece. In the film, as you may or may not know, the main character is raped in prison multiple times.

 

It isn't shown, however. It happens offscreen, but the narrator makes it very clear it does happen. 

 

So let's talk about your 'argument.' Why is the viewer not shown a graphic scene of the protagonist being gang raped? This is a mature film. The audience can handle it. Why did the storytellers '***** out'? Why didn't they 'do it right?'

 

Does it 'make sense' for this graphic rape to exist? Oh yes.

Is the audience too immature to handle it? Nope. This film has plenty of mature content.

 

And yet, despite that, it wasn't shown. Both of the filmsy 'conditions' you laid out were fulfilled. So clearly, either one of two things were true. The storyteller was incompetent, or they had another reason for not showing it.
 

[von uber]

Showing a brutal rape is entirely different from showing consensual sex as you well know.
You still haven't answered any of my questions by the way, and have been more than generous in replying to your wrong, wrong, wrong posts.

[Bob from Accounting]

Oh? And how is that? Is the audience not mature enough to handle it?

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

My goodness. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

You've completely failed to grasp the notion of what 'makes sense' to exist is entirely irrelevant. What's actually relevant is what the storyteller wishes to show. 

 

Consider the film The Shawshank Redemption. A masterpiece. In the film, as you may or may not know, the main character is raped in prison multiple times.

 

It isn't shown, however. It happens offscreen, but the narrator makes it very clear it does happen. 

 

So let's talk about your 'argument.' Why is the viewer not shown a graphic scene of the protagonist being gang raped? This is a mature film. The audience can handle it. Why did the storytellers '***** out'? Why didn't they 'do it right?'

 

Does it 'make sense' for this graphic rape to exist? Oh yes.

Is the audience too immature to handle it? Nope. This film has plenty of mature content.

 

And yet, despite that, it wasn't shown. Both of the filmsy 'conditions' you laid out were fulfilled. So clearly, either one of two things were true. The storyteller was incompetent, or they had another reason for not showing it.
 

No. I am not wrong in that Bioware backed down from what they previously established in ME1. Shawshank Redemption is actually a good example for my argument because the cinematography and action was handled in a way that effectively got the message across through implication while not being jarring. Cutting away from the action to leave room for implication is not the same as say, if they had shown the rape take place with Dufresne fully clothed. We would have gotten the point but the audience would have been left scratching their heads at the decision to shoot it that way.  In ME3 let's take the Traynor shower scene for instance. The implication was there but because of the exact images depicted (full clothing and underwear in shower), the scene became awkward and silly. It could have simply been fixed by positioning the camera in a manner reminiscent to the ME1 romance scenes. What you're not understanding or refusing to acknowledge is that I am saying that the storyteller does wish to depict the sexual act to a degree. It's obvious. Sex is in the game but it is gone about in a really clumsy and nonsensical manner with some of the characters. I never said it wasn't up to the writer/developer to show what they want to show. That does not leave them above reproach if it is executed poorly in my eyes. It's almost as if you think I am saying show us EVERYTHING. I'm not saying that at all. I am going to stick to my "what makes sense" argument. In my mind, it made little sense to have Traynor and Shepard clothed in a shower rather than "clever" camera angles being utilized.

[von uber]

Oh? And how is that? Is the audience not mature enough to handle it?

Well you clearly aren't.
Going to answer my other questions first? Then I'll point out the blindingly obvious to you.

[Bob from Accounting]

We really don't know the reasons for why BioWare 'backed down.'

 

Was it because of the scandal with Fox News? Probably at least in part.

 

But perhaps it was also because they might just not have liked the sex scenes themselves? Perhaps they weren't comfortable portraying very non-human aliens in ME 2 and ME 3? Perhaps they simply decided it was too much work?

 

The point is, we don't really know what happened, and even with Liara's scene in ME 3, can't make assumptions on how much nudity BioWare 'wants' to show and how much they want to show but are supposedly frightened out of, if any actually exists.

 

If this thread was solely about the shower scene, you'd have a solid argument by suggesting a difference in camera angles. And perhaps I've associated you with arguments that aren't your fault. But this thread has sadly gone far beyond that into utter imbecility.

 

When Shepard wears a bra during foreplay is proclaimed as a serious problem? When people whine because Liara's nipples aren't shown? When fade to blacks are derided as immature? That's a problem, and all of that's happened here.

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

We really don't know the reasons for why BioWare 'backed down.'

 

Was it because of the scandal with Fox News? Probably at least in part.

 

But perhaps it was also because they might just not have liked the sex scenes themselves? Perhaps they weren't comfortable portraying very non-human aliens? Perhaps they simply decided it was too much work?

 

The point is, we don't really know what happened, and even with Liara's scene in ME 3, can't make assumptions on how much nudity BioWare 'wants' to show and how much they want to show but are frightened out of, if any actually exists.

 

If this thread was solely about the shower scene, you'd have a solid argument by suggesting a difference in camera angles. And perhaps I've associated you with arguments that aren't your fault. But this thread has sadly gone far beyond that into utter imbecility.

 

When Shepard wears a bra during foreplay is proclaimed as a serious problem? When people whine because Liara's nipples aren't shown? When fade to blacks are derided as immature? That's a problem, and all of that's happened here.

Of course we don't know 100% why they decided to back away from the level of partial nudity they depicted in ME1 but my argument stems from the fact that they did back down. Too much work? Sure. Possible but I strongly doubt it.

 

I mostly use the shower scene because I think it represents an area where they really dropped the ball in their depiction of sex. I'm not speaking for the people that want everything shown, though as I stated before, I really wouldn't mind. What I was trying to get at way earlier is that sex shouldn't be treated as taboo especially when violence is present in a story. That is unless of course, the developers of said story are attempting subtext about social constructions but that's something else.

[Emphyr]

[Bob from Accounting]

What I was trying to get at way earlier is that sex shouldn't be treated as taboo especially when violence is present in a story. That is unless of course, the developers of said story are attempting subtext about social constructions but that's something else.

 

If a storyteller doesn't want to show it, they have every right not to without being derided as 'immature.'

 

That's not a 'taboo.'

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

If a storyteller doesn't want to show it, they have every right not to without being derided as 'immature.'

 

That's not a 'taboo.'

I already said it before but I'll say it again (don't even know why at this point); They have the right to do what they want but they are not above criticism in my eyes if I feel they executed something poorly. I don't really get exactly why you chose to use the word taboo there since it doesn't even begin to acknowledge my viewpoint on sex treated as taboo especially when compared to the depiction of violence.

[von uber]

David, the only person who said bioware are immature is you. Like the only one who mentions explicit sex is you.
Going to answer my questions?

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

David, the only person who said bioware are immature is you. Like the only one who mentions explicit sex is you.
Going to answer my questions?

Seriously. I never even used the word to describe anything in my arguments. Anyhow. It's late. Goodnight fellow Mass Effect Freaks.

[Derpy]

Wow, this still goes on after sleep and awakening?

[KaiserShep]

Only on BSN would a scene involving an amorous embrace between two characters be comparable to depictions of violent prison rape. Well, maybe Youtube and Yahoo! as well.

[Farangbaa]

This thread needs spiderman.

[Derpy]

This thread needs a lock.

[Iakus]

Only on BSN would a scene involving an amorous embrace between two characters be comparable to depictions of violent prison rape. Well, maybe Youtube and Yahoo! as well.

 

Actually, it seems an "amorous embrace" isn't enough unless both parties are clearly naked.

 

I mean, I get that there's a desire to improve these scenes.  They definitely can be done better.  But the "answer" so many are looking for seems to be "Nudity!".  I believe the scenes could be just as tasteful, if not more so, by simply doing a fade to black, or whatever.

[von uber]

This thread needs a lock.

It would help if you tried to sensibly contribute.

@Iakus maybe so, but then that comes back to why fade to black at the hint of sex / nudity but not when depicting gore or violence?

Choosing to be bashful about that but not other adult themes is a very strange double standard and implies there is something inherently wrong with it (can't show you this, look at this dismemberment instead).

A good point was made about slasher films being shown at midday in the US; but no sex please. I guess as mentioned before it must be a cultural thing.

And no David, this doesn't mean explicit sex or bioware being immature before you try derailing the thread again.

[Iakus]

@Iakus maybe so, but then that comes back to why fade to black at the hint of sex / nudity but not when depicting gore or violence?

Choosing to be bashful about that but not other adult themes is a very strange double standard and implies there is something inherently wrong with it (can't show you this, look at this dismemberment instead).

A good point was made about slasher films being shown at midday in the US; but no sex please. I guess as mentioned before it must be a cultural thing.

 

 

It is a double standard.  But the assumption seems to be "gore is okay, so sex should be as well".  But maybe the gore needs to be trimmed back too.