479 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

That's clearly what we're talking about. Since 'nudity' exists in ME 1 and ME 3. And you're asking for more. Showing privates. Would that not be explicit nudity?

 

Not, it isn't. it;s nudity. What the flying **** is wrong with a pair of breasts or someone's penis? You are an adult, aren't you?

If the thought of seeing a pair of breasts, or a vagina, or a penis (select your sexual preference) horrifies you so much then god help you. It's a game for adults dealing with adult themes and with adult depictions of torture, genetic exeperimentation on unwilling people, genocide, suicide and the effects of high velocity rounds on heads.

But show nudity? God forbid!

[Bob from Accounting]

First of all, whether you're going to admit it or not, there's a clear and defined difference between nudity and explicit nudity. Plenty of fiction features naked characters and characters having sex. Plenty of even PG-13 fiction does it. Far fewer show any actual breasts or genitalia. That's a distinction to be acknowledged .

 

Secondly, you need to get this simple point through your head - not all storytellers want to show nudity. Just as not all storytellers want to have a character getting their head graphically blown off. It has nothing to do with whether the audience is mature enough to handle it and everything to do with being unfit for the story they want to tell.

 

The idea that nudity is not a magic wand that makes any 'mature' story automatically better seems to be incomprehensibly baffling to you.

[KaiserShep]

I'd like to think that we can all agree that things like bras can be kept off while still showing nothing. All it requires is the proper shot.

[themikefest]

That's clearly what we're talking about. Since 'nudity' exists in ME 1 and ME 3. And you're asking for more. Showing privates. Would that not be explicit nudity?

How is that explicit? Its a part of your body just like your arm and legs. Or are you ashamed of yours? Unless the characters are engaging in a sexual act, it is not explicit.

 

I agree with you about having a fade-to-black, but that's just me.

[von uber]

The idea that nudity is not a magic wand that makes any 'mature' story automatically better seems to be incomprehensibly baffling to you.

I am not saying it makes the story better, in the case of ME it would make it less ridiculous and more in fitting with the supposed age group of the game. You cannot seriously sit there and type that having femshep and Traynor showering together clothes does not make the entire scene ridiculous.

 

You know what? It's a waste of time debating with you, isn't it. i can see what all the issues were about on the previous BSN.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

This. Liara has a conversation with six dialogue trees before a two-minute scene with a unique model employed. The dextros, by comparison, have one dialogue tree, instant fade to black, starbrat dream, one dialogue tree, Cronos. Haven't romanced Miranda in ME3, but I understand they fade to black and the next thing you know, you're staring at the locked door of her apartment.

Citadel DLC rectified a lot of this, but it shows who they prioritized in the vanilla game.

 

Yep. It's terrible in the vanilla game. 

 

Post-Citadel, Miranda is much, much better. She gets the best content for a human LI, and she is arguably the best (in the context we're talking about here) female LI for a Male Shepard.

 

But in the Vanilla game, Miranda was a virtual non-entity, either in romantic terms or narrative terms. A fade-to-black (no kiss or even real intimate dialogue.) 

 

And of course, prior to the EC, our Shepard, in the end, had a flashback of... Liara?

 

And I know David is going to whine about this, but I say the games would have been better had they allowed you to let the romance define how Shepard looks at the story more.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The implication there being that nudity automatically makes the relationship and character 'better.'

 

Yes, Bob, it does imply that the relationship is better than the others. It is favoritism. Why didn't Miranda get the same treatment? Why didn't Kaidan get the same treatment? Why didn't Samantha get the same treatment? Why didn't etc., get the same treatment? What about Jack? If you romanced Jack you got ... the promise of sex afterward.

[Bob from Accounting]

I am not saying it makes the story better, in the case of ME it would make it less ridiculous and more in fitting with the supposed age group of the game. You cannot seriously sit there and type that having femshep and Traynor showering together clothes does not make the entire scene ridiculous.

 

And so the solution is simply to avoid making such scenes. Using methods such as fade-to-blacks. Not by resorting to showing nudity that isn't fit for the story.

[von uber]

And so the solution is simply to avoid making such scenes. Using methods such as fade-to-blacks. Not by resorting to showing nudity that isn't fit for the story.

 

Which is fine; albeit it removes a big part of the experience of the relationship developing (lust is just a part as having long deep conversations). Of course it would then remove every single bedroom interaction scene (unless you want to enter L-shaped sheets territory).

Tell me, what is YOUR problem with nudity? If ME had it, would you play it or would you turn it off in disgust at it's 'explicitness'? How do you handle going to the toilet and looking down?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

First of all, whether you're going to admit it or not, there's a clear and defined difference between nudity and explicit nudity. Plenty of fiction features naked characters and characters having sex. Plenty of even PG-13 fiction does it. Far fewer show any actual breasts or genitalia. That's a distinction to be acknowledged .

 

Secondly, you need to get this simple point through your head - not all storytellers want to show nudity. Just as not all storytellers want to have a character getting their head graphically blown off. It has nothing to do with whether the audience is mature enough to handle it and everything to do with being unfit for the story they want to tell.

 

The idea that nudity is not a magic wand that makes any 'mature' story automatically better seems to be incomprehensibly baffling to you.

 

Nudity and 'explicit' nudity are different? What the hell? 

 

I've never seen anything that was PG-13 where sex took place. I thought sex was always deemed 'R' rated in films, 'M' rated in video games, and TV-MA on TV? Hint: It is.

 

No, there's a difference between showing stuff, and making the showing of stuff the purpose of the plot. Liara's content is the latter.

 

Your second point, professor David, is something I don't think anyone here is really saying except you. Hint: No one is saying it but you. That said, it's rather incorrect; I again point to Liara. No other character is apparently fit for the story they want to tell except her, with them going all out on a soft-core scene that is twice the length of anyone else's.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And so the solution is simply to avoid making such scenes. Using methods such as fade-to-blacks. Not by resorting to showing nudity that isn't fit for the story.

 

Would you agree then that Liara's soft-core porn scene, complete with sideboob and ass and cheesy music and twice the length of any other character's love scene is unfit for the story then?

 

Personally, I don't know how a sex scene in an RPG game is unfit for the story. I don't even know how romance impacting the plot is unfit for the story either. To be frank, there's a lot of things you say are problems that really aren't problems sans you don't like them.

[KaiserShep]

Scenes that actually show sex taking place are not always rated R. Even BSG had sex scenes and it was on TV.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Scenes that actually show sex taking place are not always rated R. Even BSG had sex scenes and it was on TV.

 

Indeed. It wasn't rated R. It was rated TV-MA, the TV equivalent to an R rating.

[DeinonSlayer]

Yep. It's terrible in the vanilla game.

Post-Citadel, Miranda is much, much better. She gets the best content for a human LI, and she is arguably the best (in the context we're talking about here) female LI for a Male Shepard.

But in the Vanilla game, Miranda was a virtual non-entity, either in romantic terms or narrative terms. A fade-to-black (no kiss or even real intimate dialogue.)

And of course, prior to the EC, our Shepard, in the end, had a flashback of... Liara?

And I know David is going to whine about this, but I say the games would have been better had they allowed you to let the romance define how Shepard looks at the story more.

That last bit, I think, is interesting - we do get a bit of that talking to Javik (at least for ME3 crew - does Javik ever mention it if you romanced Miranda?) and, yes, Liara after LotSB. I saw each of my Shepards viewing their relationships differently. My canon MShep, for instance, I see as slowly recovering from a death wish he had since Torfan with no small amount of help from Tali - he's utterly committed to her; whereas JayneShep has wh***d three laps around the galaxy and thinks little of commitment. Canon FShep (secretly Cerberus) sees Kaidan as her conscience, an island of normalcy in the double-life she's led, and JaneShep... well, she was always aggressive. Jack wasn't too far off the mark ("Bite me, Garrus - or better yet, bite her. Probably the way she likes it.").

[DeinonSlayer]

Would you agree then that Liara's soft-core porn scene, complete with sideboob and ass and cheesy music and twice the length of any other character's love scene is unfit for the story then?
 
Personally, I don't know how a sex scene in an RPG game is unfit for the story. I don't even know how romance impacting the plot is unfit for the story either. To be frank, there's a lot of things you say are problems that really aren't problems sans you don't like them.

And anything anyone else doesn't like that he does is Just Silly.

[themikefest]

That last bit, I think, is interesting - we do get a bit of that talking to Javik (at least for ME3 crew - does Javik ever mention it if you romanced Miranda?)

If your talking about him mentioning that after the Horizon mission, then no he doesn't. I romanced Miranda and he never said 'you and the human female are joined/". It only applies to the ones on the Normandy.

[Astartes Marine]

Secondly, you need to get this simple point through your head - not all storytellers want to show nudity.

And you need to get this simple point through to your head - BioWare DID show a nude Liara in her ME3 romance scenes, while others got awkward scenes with clothes on that just didn't at all make sense.

 

Why the attention to one character while others get the lazy "underwear" treatment?

[DeinonSlayer]

If your talking about him mentioning that after the Horizon mission, then no he doesn't. I romanced Miranda and he never said 'you and the human female are joined/". It only applies to the ones on the Normandy.

That sucks.

Though I guess they're not "joined" because there's a locked apartment door between them.

[Cainhurst Crow]

So the game shows nudity, so that a bunch of people on the internet can complain that it is degrading to the female and homosexual characters to objectify them in such a manner, and bioware changes it once more back to not having nudity in the game and instead having a kiss at most, which will prompt a lot of people on the internet to complain that it is degrading to them to not get full nudity, and let's see how long we can all go on this merry merry go round.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

That last bit, I think, is interesting - we do get a bit of that talking to Javik (at least for ME3 crew - does Javik ever mention it if you romanced Miranda?) and, yes, Liara after LotSB. I saw each of my Shepards viewing their relationships differently. My canon MShep, for instance, I see as slowly recovering from a death wish he had since Torfan with no small amount of help from Tali - he's utterly committed to her; whereas JayneShep has wh***d three laps around the galaxy and thinks little of commitment. Canon FShep (secretly Cerberus) sees Kaidan as her conscience, an island of normalcy in the double-life she's led, and JaneShep... well, she was always aggressive. Jack wasn't too far off the mark ("Bite me, Garrus - or better yet, bite her. Probably the way she likes it.").

 

Oh yes. I really only have one Shepard that I play. He tells Liara that Miranda has her flaws, but she trusts him, and that he cares about her. I wish there were more of those moments throughout ME2 and ME3.

 

There's a good line if you hug Miranda in ME2: 'I already died once. I don't plan on doing it again.'

 

I'd have liked both of the lines to be merged as well though. In ME3, Miranda is what Shepard has found to live for and to fight for.

[Bob from Accounting]

This clearly is not an issue of pushing any boundary but yet another case of whining over Liara getting something the other love interests don't. Is there an argument here that doesn't boil down to 'Liara got this, therefore I want it'?

[TheTurtle]

So the game shows nudity, so that a bunch of people on the internet can complain that it is degrading to the female and homosexual characters to objectify them in such a manner, and bioware changes it once more back to not having nudity in the game and instead having a kiss at most, which will prompt a lot of people on the internet to complain that it is degrading to them to not get full nudity, and let's see how long we can all go on this merry merry go round.

When did anyone other than fox news complain about that crap? From what I remember most peopl were firmly on the side of bioware in that pathetic excuse for a scandal

[MassivelyEffective0730]

So the game shows nudity, so that a bunch of people on the internet can complain that it is degrading to the female and homosexual characters to objectify them in such a manner, and bioware changes it once more back to not having nudity in the game and instead having a kiss at most, which will prompt a lot of people on the internet to complain that it is degrading to them to not get full nudity, and let's see how long we can all go on this merry merry go round.

 

To be fair, I never complained about nudity being degrading to the female and homosexual characters. I just want it to be done tastefully.

[themikefest]

This clearly is not an issue of pushing any boundary but yet another case of whining over Liara getting something the other love interests don't. Is there an argument here that doesn't boil down to 'Liara got this, therefore I want it'?

What makes her more important than any other character to have a scene like that? You have a problem with people wanting nudity, but your not saying anything bad about T'soni being naked. Why is that?