Questa discussione ha avuto 202 risposte

[JamesFaith]

In a choice-based game, you need both.  Happy and sad.  Bioware has forgotten that.

 

MEHEM, now, offers both.

 

No.

 

Some people need both, as you.

Some people don't need both.

And some people can be annoyed by pure existence of "too sweet" happy-end and rather prefer none pure happy-end.

 

You are just again generalizing your opinion to some rule so your opinion look more important.

 

You want your happy-end? Play mods like MEHEM because that is purpose of mods - satisfying of wishes of people who have different preference then authors of game and offering them alternative.

[Iakus]

No.

 

Some people need both, as you.

Some people don't need both.

And some people can be annoyed by pure existence of "too sweet" happy-end and rather prefer none pure happy-end.

 

You are just again generalizing your opinion to some rule so your opinion look more important.

 

You want your happy-end? Play mods like MEHEM because that is purpose of mods - satisfying of wishes of people who have different preference then authors of game and offering them alternative.

 

Pot.  Meet kettle.

 

You are again diminishing the importance of having actual variety in endings in a choice based narrative.  Just because you happened to get lucky that the railroaded endings we got happened to cater to your tastes doesn't mean there is no problem.  Annoyed by merely having an option of a happy ending?  Guess what?  There's a whole lot of people even more annoyed by the complete lack of that option.  Me, I choose the path of more choices for everyone.

 

As long as Bioware continues to use save imports to canonize outcomes, the endings they choose offer will continue to be important.  The destination is part of the journey.  

[JamesFaith]

 

You are again diminishing the importance of having actual variety in endings in a choice based narrative.  Just because you happened to get lucky that the railroaded endings we got happened to cater to your tastes doesn't mean there is no problem.  Annoyed by merely having an option of a happy ending?  Guess what?  There's a whole lot of people even more annoyed by the complete lack of that option.  Me, I choose the path of more choices for everyone.

 

 

Yes, Iakus, it is my option.

 

And I - contrary to you - never hide it behind phrases like " there have to be happyend" or "variety for everyone" or other excuses. Or by constant referring to " a lot of other people". Or claiming that my way is only one right.

 

You are just same selfish as me, only you haven't balls to admit it without pretending care of gaming community.

[Iakus]

Yes, Iakus, it is my option.

 

And I - contrary to you - never hide it behind phrases like " there have to be happyend" or "variety for everyone" or other excuses. Or by constant referring to " a lot of other people". Or claiming that my way is only one right.

 

You are just same selfish as me, only you haven't balls to admit it without pretending care of gaming community.

 

I don't find options for others to be selfish.  I think it's a good thing.

 

And there are a lot of people that were alienated by Bioware for their decision to force tragedy on all.  Look at the backlash and tell me different.  Look at MEHEM's popularity.

 

Maybe wanting a happy ending is a bit of self-interest on  my part.  But I have never said you should be denied a tragic end.

 

That would be selfish 

[KaiserShep]

It's a possibility, though coming from my personal view, Destroy was and always will be my only choice, because I take certain philosophical issues with both of the other endings. And I admit, I've mostly only checked the opinions of other players who chose Destroy as their ending, but we mostly seem to be agreeing. But I admit, I've never considered how many of them would pick any other ending if Shepard survived in them.

 

That is to say, I'd pick Destroy even if Shepard didn't survive. That she does survive(even if certain prerequisites need to be met for that) is a bonus. A considerable one, yes, but not the main reason I pick Destroy.

 

Yeah, I feel largely the same way, though I must admit, if all were equal in that Shepard could survive, I would probably strongly consider Control, if only for the fact that the geth are spared and the Citadel is not damaged. But ultimately, the problem for me is still the idea of any single entity possessing that much power in the galaxy. I very much prefer to cast it aside and ensure that no one has it.

[Ieldra]

Can you extrapolate on that? No, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly intrigued what makes you think so.

Probably, iakus thinks that a large part of Destroy's popularity is due to Shepard's possible survival as a human in that ending. I don't think it's that big of a factor. The story appears to be geared towards Destroy even without that, because it's the "default mode" and we never get the option to discuss alternative solutions until the ending. So maybe things would change from the current 60:20:20 to 50:25:25, but I wouldn't expect more drastic effects.  

[Chashan]

Probably, iakus thinks that a large part of Destroy's popularity is due to Shepard's possible survival as a human in that ending. I don't think it's that big of a factor. The story appears to be geared towards Destroy even without that, because it's the "default mode" and we never get the option to discuss alternative solutions until the ending. So maybe things would change from the current 60:20:20 to 50:25:25, but I wouldn't expect more drastic effects.  

 

Which describes another key problem the decision-chamber and what comes after has: shoving in a "dilemma" that is entirely disconnected from the rest of the game. BW can do such final dilemmata that are still grounded in the main-plot, they do have a track-record of that, be it throwing the Council to the wolves in ME1 or recommending their rescue, as well as Jade Empire's Water Dragon or KotOR's Star Forge.

The mere continued existence of Shepards after all is done regardless of which final option taken - something interpreted and thought out by many in one form or another anyway, and in case of Destroy MEHEM demonstrates rather well how easy a job a reunion would have been had BW wanted to go all the way there - would by no means be enough to make the decision-chamber any more believable nor any less abrupt a departure from the game that came before. For that, the developers would have needed to gear the game's story toward it properly, and they simply did not do that.

 

As I expressed in conversation elsewhere:
I hope it is that which the ME-team working on the next title takes away from all that, to at least make an effort that the end is the natural conclusion of what came before.

[I Miss Minsc]

This was meant as FEEDBACK for EA ONLY.

 

If you liked the MOD (which Many Did) this is the Reason I have put it in FEEDBACK.

 

If  you preferred the A B C endings (which many did NOT), you don't need to select "happy ending" and enjoy the "artist vision of our players demise".

 

If you Don't like a happy ending to a story, that is your choice.

 

If you wish to PREVENT OTHERS from experiencing a "Happy Ending to ME3" well, I guess you know how that plays out.

[Undead Han]

This was meant as FEEDBACK for EA ONLY.

 

If you liked the MOD (which Many Did) this is the Reason I have put it in FEEDBACK.

 

If  you preferred the A B C endings (which many did NOT), you don't need to select "happy ending" and enjoy the "artist vision of our players demise".

 

If you Don't like a happy ending to a story, that is your choice.

 

If you wish to PREVENT OTHERS from experiencing a "Happy Ending to ME3" well, I guess you know how that plays out.

 

If you don't like other people giving negative feedback to your original post, you shouldn't have 1) pretended to speak for them, and 2) began your post by insinuating that everyone who prefered a bittersweet conclusion to the series is an angsty Twilight reading/watching teenager.

 

MEHEM doesn't appeal to everyone. Their opinions are no less valid than your own.

[AlanC9]

It is my opinion (which I cannot back up, it's just a feeling) that a not-insignificant part of the reason why Destroy is so popular is the implication that Shepard can survive it.  This is something none of the other endings provide.

 

If the other endings did offer that, then I'd say it's highly likely that Green and Blue would enjoy an increased level of popularity.  Destroy may still have the lead, since it does kill the Reapers.  But it's lead I think would be dramatically lessened.

 

I thought I should express my approval of this, since the moments we agree about stuff are getting rarer.

[AlanC9]

OP, what's with the Random capitalization?

 

I've been seeing a lot of that lately, come to think of it.

[I Miss Minsc]

To all the brave users who "Google'd" Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod, and installed and hopefully enjoyed it.

 

Please send a thank you to the Modder.

 

 

 

PC's  only PC's can allow a user to FIX a game.

 

PS Please allow DA3 to be moddable, I know you can't actually completely stop a modder from Fixing the game, but in deference to the respsonse EA/Bioware got from the A B C endings from me3, it might be prudent to put the tools in at launch.

 

I know (we ALL do now, it was a MODDER who showed that yes, in fact, it WAS possible to play Sim City OFFLINE), thus engendering their ultimate "Patch" to officially make this happen.

 

Wouldn't Now be a good time for EA to make a change and put the Customer First? (the Profits well earned will surely follow), being reviled is no way to be remembered in gaming history.

 

If you just look at the Forums from Dragon's Age Origins, nary a "LOCKDOWN !" in sight, you will get how a company is SUPPOSED to treat it customers.

 

Learn from your distant past, Overcome your Recent Past, Make a Better Future for EA.

 

"There is no Random" only the Unobserved/Non-Understood.

 

"Mods make the Difference" 

 

PS English is my Fifth Language so please forgive any typo's.

[PANTHEON]

Kill your darlings.

[Remix-General Aetius]

MEHEM sucks. bad voice-overs, long blank screens and basic model swapping. nothing to brag about

[Iakus]

MEHEM sucks. bad voice-overs, long blank screens and basic model swapping. nothing to brag about

 

Still a better ending than we got, though.

 

Of course, the mod has also been improving since release.  And right now, it looks darn close to professionaly done.

[Felya87]

MEHEM is not perfect. It have serious tecnical problem. But, at least for me, the bigger problem is that it isn't possible to have it on a PS3. even only for protest against the originals endings, I would mod my game.

[quinwhisperer]

It's a possibility, though coming from my personal view, Destroy was and always will be my only choice, because I take certain philosophical issues with both of the other endings. And I admit, I've mostly only checked the opinions of other players who chose Destroy as their ending, but we mostly seem to be agreeing. But I admit, I've never considered how many of them would pick any other ending if Shepard survived in them.

 

That is to say, I'd pick Destroy even if Shepard didn't survive. That she does survive(even if certain prerequisites need to be met for that) is a bonus. A considerable one, yes, but not the main reason I pick Destroy.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

[cfs3corsair]

I personally think MEHEM is the way to go for me, personally. The creator of the mod has stated several times he figures bioware could do a much better job than he. But since they are done with me3, he created the mod and it is quite wildly popular. It is also quite an amazing feat considering all the extreme technical limitations.
I kinda do wonder about all the hate for the mod. It isn't even finished yet. That's why the latest version is v0.4 and not 1.0

[q5tyhj]

MEHEM is like taking a book you in which you don't really like the ending, and writing a NEW ending in the back of the book in pencil. 

[Iakus]

MEHEM is like taking a book you in which you don't really like the ending, and writing a NEW ending in the back of the book in pencil. 

 

If the book expressly has no canon, and the main character we were encouraged to make into our own, and we were told we shaped the story..

 

Yup, works for me

[q5tyhj]

If the book expressly has no canon, and the main character we were encouraged to make into our own, and we were told we shaped the story..

 

Yup, works for me

 

Clearly it works for some people. For my part, and many others, writing a fake ending into the back of a book because we didn't like the real one would be equally, if not more, unsatisfying than an ending that was simply bad. 

[Iakus]

Clearly it works for some people. For my part, and many others, writing a fake ending into the back of a book because we didn't like the real one would be equally, if not more, unsatisfying than an ending that was simply bad. 

 

I call it "player agency"

[q5tyhj]

That's fine. For my part, even if I liked the MEHEM, I could never get myself to forget that it isn't the real ending, and is simply fan faction. I'll always prefer the real ending to fan fiction, regardless of the flaws. And even as far as commandeering the story and writing your own ending goes, I don't really see MEHEM as much of an improvement in the first place- the only thing it has over the real endings is that it eliminates all the glaring plotholes that get introduced in the final couple scenes of the game, because it simply leaves out that entire chunk of the plot. Its "happily everafter" tone is, in my estimation at least, inferior to the bittersweet (and thus more realistic) note that the game ends on- a note which is far more powerful than your typical, cookie-cutter,  predictable, and boring (IMO) "they-all-lived-happily-everafter". I just don't understand the thinking behind preferring such an ending- in the same way that someone who doesn't lima beans just doesn't understand, in a fundamental way, how people can like them. For me, the fact that Shepard dies,  one way or another (barring the hi-EMS destroy "breathe" ending), in accomplishing the impossible and stopping the Reapers- and that he quite willingly sacrifices his life- is a crucial aspect of what makes Shepard a compelling protagonist, and the Mass Effect trilogy a compelling and satisfying story. And the facts that Shepard is determined to stop at nothing- including his own death- to save the galaxy, and that no victory is without sacrifice, are themes which are highly consistent with the rest of the story- unlike so much of the rest of the real endings.

 

So for me, if I was going to go for a fan fiction "alternate" ending it would be one that keeps much of the structure of the real ending (including the fact of Shepard's and others deaths), but finds a way to reconcile all the plotholes that get introduced; and I actually remember reading something like this (I think it was on DeviantArt) that was based on a prior draft of the ME3 endings by the Bioware team, but had fairly significantly changed a bunch of the narrative about the Reapers motives, the starchild, and the other things that end up being so problematic. I wish I remembered the name of the blog. But the problem wasn't, in my mind, that the endings weren't happy- it was that they were inconsistent and introduced so many implausible and/or completely new elements.

 

But again, this whole thing is purely a question of taste. It ultimately isn't anything that we can really reason about, if we disagree we disagree.

[Iakus]

I uninstalled the entire trilogy in disgust after EC.  MEHEM got me to play again, and even to buy the DLC (Bioware should really send Mr Fob a fruit basket or something, his mod made them money, and not just from me)

 

The mere fact that it removes plotholes by itself makes MEHEM a superior ending to me.  ANd it still retains that bittersweet feeling the endings themselves were apparently going for:  It ends with a memorial service for Anderson, and keeps the flashbacks to those that died.

 

What it removes are the lame railroaded apparent death of Shepard and the annihilation of an entire life form for the sake of "drama"

 

"No matter which move you make, you're doomed" is not how a choice based narrative should have gone

[q5tyhj]

That is, like I said, purely a matter of taste. For my part, the actual endings strike me as far more daring- it was a gamble, and one that simply didn't work out that well. Having the trilogy end the way MEHEM does- we build the Crucible, push the button, and "boom", we win, all the Reapers are dead and we all go home and live happily ever after- may lack the plotholes the real endings suffer from, but its also extremely linear, predictable, vanilla, and, in my estimation, completely generic and boring. The best endings- whether in book, film, or video games- are ones which surprise you; they throw you a curveball. It isn't so simple as Frodo walking the Ring to Mount Doom and plunking it into hot lava- he refuses the task at the end, claims the Ring, is attacked by Gollum, and so the quest is accomplished in a way completely unforeseen. Bioware similarly attempts to throw you a curveball with their ending, taking the higher risk/higher reward route- but it simply doesn't work out. But I have to at least recognize the attempt, and give them credit for being bold and not taking the easy way- the way that many stories (and MEHEM) opt for, which is just lacking in imagination in comparison, flaws and plotholes notwithstanding.

 

And as far as Anderson dying, that's not even in the ballpark as having Shepard, the protagonist and hero, die in accomplishing his goal. It doesn't add anywhere near the amount of emotional and narrative force that Shepard's death does- we aren't attached to Anderson the way we are to Shepard, for obvious reasons, and the personalization of the Shepard character builds up some serious emotional credit that having him martyr himself at the end allows them to cash in- an option many narratives simply don't have, because fans are not as attached to the main character as ME fans are to Shepard, in general. And clearly having Anderson die in no way contributes to the persona and legend of Shepard, as utterly fearless and singularly determined to save the galaxy- there's no way to exemplify this in the same way that Shepard's own death does.