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What origin would better suit?

Débuté par geth47 , mars 30 2014 07:34

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#1
geth47
Posté 30 mars 2014 - 07:34

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I was wondering if you guys could offer some input regarding character built from a narrative perspective.

 

 

I was planing to do a full run of the game with a bad ass character that would be akin to a renegade in mass effect. The intention would be to romance morrigan, help the murderer escape and let the traitor live. I would also let the mage in prison survive. 

 

 

What origin would better suit this? I was considering both a a forest elf who´s selfish who does not trust most humans and is angry because he was forced to join the warders or a mage expelled from the tower and hates templars, 

 

 

Also, later I plan to do a paragon like run. What class would you recommend? I´ve considered a female human noble who would love alistar, and also a city elf who would love leliana. A noble dwarf could also work for leliana, since both were betrayed by very close people.

 

Any insights? 


#2
Taki17
Posté 30 mars 2014 - 08:00

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For the renegad character, I'd suggest a pragmatic dwarf noble or dwarf commoner. The noble could be an "ends justify the means" type who's willing to take morally questionable actions for the greater good, and the commoner could be a born criminal (like s/he is int their origin story).

 

For the paragon, I'd say female human mage or a city elf.


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#3
sylvanaerie
Posté 30 mars 2014 - 08:08

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Ruthless could be an embittered mage who hated the circle, hated templars and felt resentful of having to do the extreme (joining the wardens) just to get out of it.  He could hate everyone except himself (and Morrigan, hell maybe even her too).  Since she fears/hates mages so much, if I were going that route I'd sacrifice Isolde to Jowan's blood ritual, seeing in her a representation of all that the 'mundanes' view mages, but then Jowan wouldn't get away.  

 

Ruthless could be an angry Cousland who hates, and looks forward to shoving the blade into Howe's belly--or back--with relish.  Be progressive about mages (or just not care Morrigan is one) and resents the wardens, and the fact that Duncan was a bit of a ****** in that origin, only agreeing to help if your dad (who's bleeding out on the stone floor of the keep) gives his consent to your Joining.  He might have a bit of 'hero worship' for Loghain seeing as he would be the one most educated in current Ferelden events and know of the recent history of the country, and Loghain's participation in its liberation.

 

Ruthless could be a xenophobic Dalish who resented Duncan smashing the mirror that could have healed him (I know it can't but your PC may not see it that way) and angry that he took advantage of the situation.  He might see this as 'someone with power abusing it to his advantage' (Several of the dialogue lines have you asking him why he doesn't just 'give you the cure').  He might respect mages since his Keeper is one (as was his father) and find a similar mind set in Morrigan.

 

Ruthless could be a City Elf who had to scrabble and take for every scrap to survive (not so much with other elves but humans) and be resentful, especially of nobles like Vaughan who think they own every one.  He would have less reason to romance Morrigan maybe with this mindset, but he may figure, she has power and she knows how to use it to get what she wants, and he'd like to learn more?  He may not resent the wardens, but wouldn't have any love for humans (esp the nobility).

 

Ruthless could be an ambitious Dwarf Noble who actively plotted the demise of Trian and falls for Bhelen's trap.  He romances Morrigan as just another step to power--perhaps initially thinking to get her to love him and maybe falling into his own trap.  Sense a pattern here?  Maybe he's not as clever as he thinks he is?

 

Ruthless could be a Dwarf Commoner who (like the City Elf) had to scrabble for every scrap just to survive, only with more urgency since, unlike the CE, he really is alone except for his sister, Rica and maybe Leske (his Carta partner).  

 

I can't really play ******* characters, and the game kind of pigeon-holes you to a 'good' path but there are some ruthless steps you can take that allow for a more '*******' approach.

 

For a paragon, I see Cousland as best, since they could be played as "noble" and wanting to save Ferelden from the darkspawn.  Though a mage works well too in this capacity.  


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#4
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 mars 2014 - 07:06

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Any character could be ruthless if you just adopt the grey warden stance on whatever it takes to get the job done. For that, it would be any character that sees them as noble. And this character would basically have the same stance on things that morrigan does. Duncan is ruthless in his actions from what we have seen. Whatever it takes to get the job done, to stop the blight. So no saving redcliffe town, just concern yourself with the arl if that's even possible. Probably side with werewolves and kill the elves. Werewolves are stronger in battle. Probably pick the Golems, they are stronger. Probably kill Connor or his annoying mother using blood magic. To add in extra ruthless factor it would depend. As a Cousland you could hate mages as most do and let them die but you lose Wynne there. If you have already done blood magic to save the Connor then you don't need the mages anyway except for the war which they are one of the best assets I find in dealing with the dragon as they are ranged with some of their spells.

 

Ruthless doesn't always mean murderous. It is just without empathy. Cold. Calculating. Not really humane. The paragon/ruthless system in ME was a bit off on this at times. So I wouldn't really use that as the template. For this game, Ruthless would be more like adopting the hard stance of the Grey Wardens and whatever it takes attitude. Likely this would also mean not doing the ritual because allowing another old god is not what a true warden would do. That means someone dies. Yet ruthless would likely not sacrifice themselves. So whatever it takes so long as you survive would work then you do the ritual.

 

I know a mage or a cousland could be. So mage elf, too. I haven't played the dwarf or dalish elf, but as I've heard, city elf is most prone to hating grey wardens IIRC, which would just make you more of any angry character rather than a ruthless. I never saw ruthless as directly hostile. I saw them as making choices based on beliefs they held about things and attitudes. Damn the consequences. You've got a job to do and you will do it. But it could still be seen as ruthless except for a different reason... being pissed about being conscripted. Being pissed about being a grey warden and being pissed at whomever crossed you along the way. Though I think that is more hostile than ruthless, it could still work. I think it depends really on the character you want to create. Truly ruthless IMHO would be Grey Warden hardcore. Hostile with ruthless tendencies would be more like someone who is pissed at aspects of society that he/she feels are creating injustice like templars for what they have done to mages or mages for using blood magic and letting demons into the world or even at grey wardens for conscripting them.

 

I think a character that is hostile about life and even hostile about being conscripted would then probably just do what they had to do. It's the story you build. What are the motivations. If the character is angry about being a grey warden, it would likely still want to save those it didn't have a grudge with or it might not give a damn at all.

 

It's not textbook. There is no formula which is where the paragon/renegade system faltered. It gave you a guideline but there was so much more to it. That is where you come in with the story you weave for your character. Who is he/she. Why do they make those choices? The easier path to get the job done seems appropriate along with probably leaning toward backing whomever you feel is right when it comes up regardless of what the 'right' thing to do is. Sometimes it would be more paragon. Other times it would be less humane. Again, it depends on where this ruthlessness is coming from. Is it that you are solely shaped by the opening story? Is it that you have adopted the grey warden beliefs? Is it both? Are you against the grey wardens and all they stand for because they conscripted you? Or just on general principle perhaps after going through the joining and feeling like you were lied to or misled? But you still believe you need to stop the blight... perhaps you are still on board for that, but pissed about being lied to about the joining and what it means to be a warden because of it.

 

You get to decide. It's really more fun to think about all the motivating factors that drive your character than to just try to go ruthless with a character without really understanding who that character is and why they are that way. It will also help you decide what choices to make if you fully adopt a role that you have created.


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#5
mousestalker
Posté 30 mars 2014 - 07:30

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FWIW, the female city elf origin is considered to be a bit more intense and emotionally engaging than the male. Having said that, you can go paragade or renegon from any origin you wish. My advice is that you select the origin that is the most appealing to you and make your choices from there.


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#6
Tommy6860
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 02:21

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FWIW, the female city elf origin is considered to be a bit more intense and emotionally engaging than the male. Having said that, you can go paragade or renegon from any origin you wish. My advice is that you select the origin that is the most appealing to you and make your choices from there.

 

You took the words right out of my head. If any origin has a theme the OP wants to achieve starting out and continuing to be a renegade styled character, the female City Elf is the best one, period. Aside from that, what you said farther on is achievable with any character origin. I think I played City Elf more than any origin, it is brutal. Plus her (never played a male, so I cannot comment) dialogue is really snarky with humans after the origin quest is completed.


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#7
Dutchess
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 03:27

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You took the words right out of my head. If any origin has a theme the OP wants to achieve starting out and continuing to be a renegade styled character, the female City Elf is the best one, period. Aside from that, what you said farther on is achievable with any character origin. I think I played City Elf more than any origin, it is brutal. Plus her (never played a male, so I cannot comment) dialogue is really snarky with humans after the origin quest is completed.

 

Personally I think both the dwarven commoner and dwarven noble would fit a ruthless approach well too. They have been raised in a climate that can demand harsh measures to survive, although the context is different.


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#8
sylvanaerie
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 10:50

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Female city elf would work well, but OP wants to romance Morrigan on that playthrough and unless you are using a mod, you can't do that with a female.


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#9
BronzTrooper
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 11:46

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Well, the playthrough where I played the closest to Renegade (which is also my favorite playthrough overall), was my human hating city elf.  He despises humans and the Chantry, justifiably so, and gets pissed the most when fellow elves are threatened.  Then again, since he hates humans, I don't see how he would end up with Morrigan.  I mean, he's probably the strongest out of my Wardens physically so I could see her being attracted to him.

 

Then again, you could have it where your elf only seems to open up to Morrigan.  I went with a two-hander warrior build for my city elf and went with Berserker (fits his personality perfectly) and Reaver.  Oh wait, we're talking about origins, not builds... :wacko:


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#10
Tommy6860
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 12:01

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Female city elf would work well, but OP wants to romance Morrigan on that playthrough and unless you are using a mod, you can't do that with a female.

 

True, I only made the post based on the console ability on the PC to alter game states. I sometimes get too PC-centric when I should remember that the game is also on consoles. Apologies.


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#11
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 11:35

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City Elf or either Dwarf. But I recommend Elf, because a Morrigan romance with a dwarf is ridiculous. People can disagree, of course, but I won't change my mind. Heh

 

The other Origins have a pretty strong undertone of redemption or "twee-ness". Feel free to ignore it though.

 

Dalish can be a ruthless badass, but I still see them motivated by beliefs in their heritage and clan, not being a jerk or out of some sense of ruthless pragmatism. Even bastards like Zathrian think they're doing good (or Velanna, for that matter).


#12
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 06:27

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I really wish we could have more versatile backgrounds like a mage noble sort of like connor. Who takes the harrowing, learns of her family being slaughtered through some conversations after she joins the wardens. Maybe because they were nobles they could see her more frequently and they didn't feel threatened by her magic ability because they trusted her. I could see that in the Couslands as they were presented. I could see them as not feeling their daughter was a threat with magic.

 

Then when she learns of their murders and Howe's treachery and rages at the world. That would be a hell of a character. Pissed for so many reasons - at the templars, at Howe and Loghain, at having to learn of this at Ostagar... good maker, that would be a ruthless character. And it would be even better if somehow she could become queen and shove it all in their faces (but that would really be lore breaking, though it would be nice if there were some way around it in the writing because a queen mage who just saved ferelden and came from noble family would be a character I'd love play). Just can't get that queen option even with console cheats unless I add mage spells which I usually do and run something close to that but she's not ruthless. She's just and fair.


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#13
sylvanaerie
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 11:59

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#14
sylvanaerie
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 12:04

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I really wish we could have more versatile backgrounds like a mage noble sort of like connor. Who takes the harrowing, learns of her family being slaughtered through some conversations after she joins the wardens. Maybe because they were nobles they could see her more frequently and they didn't feel threatened by her magic ability because they trusted her. I could see that in the Couslands as they were presented. I could see them as not feeling their daughter was a threat with magic.

 

Then when she learns of their murders and Howe's treachery and rages at the world. That would be a hell of a character. Pissed for so many reasons - at the templars, at Howe and Loghain, at having to learn of this at Ostagar... good maker, that would be a ruthless character. And it would be even better if somehow she could become queen and shove it all in their faces (but that would really be lore breaking, though it would be nice if there were some way around it in the writing because a queen mage who just saved ferelden and came from noble family would be a character I'd love play). Just can't get that queen option even with console cheats unless I add mage spells which I usually do and run something close to that but she's not ruthless. She's just and fair.

Hmm the previous post put my post in the quoted by line.  Maybe this will post correctly.

 

*Copy pasted* Actually with the console there is a command to change the class of the PC to anything else, so a "Cousland mage" was possible.  One of my playthroughs was as a Cousland mage, but the game gets a little screwy in the tower as everyone treats you as if you had been there.  I suppose you could roleplay she had gone home on a furlough for a visit with her family (despite the mage losing her status as a noble, her dad is one of the three most powerful men in Ferelden).  I instead chose to RP that unlike Isolde (who was stupid and hired a screw up like Jowan sent by one of her husband's enemies, Bryce chose Aldous to teach her, so her magic was learned well and she was able to conceal it longer).  Her initial class was 'rogue' which she pretended to be until the poo hit the fan and she had to start using her magic to survive.

 

Ahhh gotta love DAO on the PC...I was able to put a mage on the throne of Ferelden...though the wedding mod I have didn't fire, I was okay with that.  The end treated her like a Cousland, not a mage.


#15
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 01 avril 2014 - 07:38

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Hmm the previous post put my post in the quoted by line.  Maybe this will post correctly.

 

*Copy pasted* Actually with the console there is a command to change the class of the PC to anything else, so a "Cousland mage" was possible.  One of my playthroughs was as a Cousland mage, but the game gets a little screwy in the tower as everyone treats you as if you had been there.  I suppose you could roleplay she had gone home on a furlough for a visit with her family (despite the mage losing her status as a noble, her dad is one of the three most powerful men in Ferelden).  I instead chose to RP that unlike Isolde (who was stupid and hired a screw up like Jowan sent by one of her husband's enemies, Bryce chose Aldous to teach her, so her magic was learned well and she was able to conceal it longer).  Her initial class was 'rogue' which she pretended to be until the poo hit the fan and she had to start using her magic to survive.

 

Ahhh gotta love DAO on the PC...I was able to put a mage on the throne of Ferelden...though the wedding mod I have didn't fire, I was okay with that.  The end treated her like a Cousland, not a mage.

 

Yes, I've done this but like you said it was screwy. I don't mind being seen as a mage because that's part of the story, but couldn't get the wedding scene which really sucked. I think the mage part comes into play there. Too bad though. I was disappointed because part of becoming queen is that scene. If felt incomplete without it. So now I just add all the spells I would mainly use (not really that many) to the warrior though more of a pain to do that.


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