375 réponses à ce sujet

[Victor Wachter]

And now it's the Rogue's turn. As we continue to plan for the future of the Dragon Age franchise, we're interested in hearing your feedback regarding the different classes.

In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Rogue class. You can still comment in last week's Warrior topic. Next week's topic will cover the Mage.

• What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
• Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
• What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
• What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Be sure to answer the poll on Rogue specializations as well!

Modifié par Victor Wachter, 22 janvier 2010 - 12:46 .

[ztonkin]

I didn't like how only a Rogue could spot/disarm traps or pick locks. I liked their backstab move, it was very useful. I didn't like the play dead technique, just felt it was kinda useless. Overall, my favorite class.

[What a Twist]

Like:
Lockpicking, and the fast pace of the class during combat. I feel like its really responsive, the more I give the more I get.

Dislike:
The lack of interesting gear, there are so many great patterns and looks for heavy plate armor, but leather has none that I can think of in terms of unique patterns. The class when ranged, simply misses too much. Missing doesn't really stop you from getting through the game, but it does drive me nuts.

Favorite specs:
Assasin and bard. These both bring amazing utility not only to your group, but to your own character. Being a bard is really the only way to make using a bow justified.

Least favorite spec(s):
Ranger, easily. Not only is this nearly pointless, but you would be a fool to even think about passing up any of the others, for nothing but a pet.

Favorite rogue talent tree:
Well since there are only two, this is sort of a yes or no question. Daul-wield brings massive damage to the table, with the rogue talents for back stabs thrown in, along with all the stuns, you can't go wrong. I'm a fan of the bow and arrow style, but its not not anywhere as useful as dual-weild unless you're fighting a dragon.

Modifié par What a Twist, 22 janvier 2010 - 12:57 .

[MonkeyChief117]

First off i'm on the xbox . . .
. . . so archery is a complete waste of time when compared with mages and warriors . . .
. . . apart from the fact that only rogues can open locks/ disarm traps, meaning i have to take Zev/Lel with me wherever i go if i want to experience the game properly. Considering there are so many characters, wasting one of my 3 slots with a rogue limits your experience of the game. Why the hell are there only two rogues in the game and about 25 warriors? It makes no sense.

PLEASE fix the archery and give warriors the option to smash locks in DA2. Apart from that, DAO is a fantastic game - cheers bioware.

Modifié par MonkeyChief117, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:08 .

[Mavkiel]

Rogues have many interesting skills. Having to invest points in lockpicking/stealth/placing-disarming/ traps/posion is point consuming. Yet those are the very skills people think about when playing a rogue. Perhaps some of those trees could be combined.

[Midnight Voyager]

MonkeyChief117 wrote...

First off i'm on the xbox . . .
. . . so archery is a complete waste of time when compared with mages and warriors . . .
. . . apart from the fact that only rogues can open locks/ disarm traps, meaning i have to take Zev/Lel with me wherever i go if i want to experience the game properly. Considering there are so many characters, wasting one of my 3 slots with a rogue limits your experience of the game.

PLEASE fix the archery and give warriors the option to smash locks in DA2. Apart from that, DAO is a fantastic game - cheers bioware.

Why on earth is rogue = archer?

[SuperMaoriFulla]

ztonkin wrote...

I didn't like how only a Rogue could spot/disarm traps or pick locks. I liked their backstab move, it was very useful. I didn't like the play dead technique, just felt it was kinda useless. Overall, my favorite class.

Rogue for the win as well.

I'm kind of the opposite when it came to the skills/talents. Sure you can use a mod to make it so that your warrior can bust open a lock, or your mage gets the ubiquitous open spell, but in general lockpicking and constructing/dismantling traps would take some specialized training, especially the more complex varieties. Granted hunters might use snares and other traps for hunting game, but locksmithing has tended to be a specialized craft, so it makes sense that lockpicking would be as well.

I liked Stealth, didn't think it was useless at all. When used with Survival, I could scout out areas, disarm inconvinient traps and lodge an arrow in the eye of a pesky magi from a safe distance, or calmly get up close and put a knife across the throat (or stun, then slice).

I never used playing dead in gameplay, agree that it is a somewhat odd choice for the fourth tier.

[Killian Kalthorne]

The dagger bug is the only thing I see wrong with the rogue. Get that fixed and all is right as rain.

[SuperMaoriFulla]

What a Twist wrote...

Like:
Lockpicking, and the fast pace of the class during combat. I feel like its really responsive, the more I give the more I get.

Dislike:
The lack of interesting gear, there are so many great patterns and looks for heavy plate armor, but leather has none that I can think of in terms of unique patterns. The class when ranged, simply misses too much. Missing doesn't really stop you from getting through the game, but it does drive me nuts.

Favorite rogue talent tree:
Well since there are only two, this is sort of a yes or no question. Daul-wield brings massive damage to the table, with the rogue talents for back stabs thrown in, along with all the stuns, you can't go wrong. I'm a fan of the bow and arrow style, but its not not anywhere as useful as dual-weild unless you're fighting a dragon.

Yes and yes.

Lack of light armor/gear/equipment for rogues (and mages also).

Dual-wield is also favored build on my Rogue, although I have Leliana scoped out for Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot. Found both to be useful.

[MonkeyChief117]

Midnight Voyager wrote...

MonkeyChief117 wrote...

First off i'm on the xbox . . .
. . . so archery is a complete waste of time when compared with mages and warriors . . .
. . . apart from the fact that only rogues can open locks/ disarm traps, meaning i have to take Zev/Lel with me wherever i go if i want to experience the game properly. Considering there are so many characters, wasting one of my 3 slots with a rogue limits your experience of the game.

PLEASE fix the archery and give warriors the option to smash locks in DA2. Apart from that, DAO is a fantastic game - cheers bioware.

Why on earth is rogue = archer?

Ok dual weapons works fine and i enjoy using them. If you dont want to do that however, archery is the only other option. I am biased however, as the dex bug on xbox prevents you from doing much damage . . . annoying to say the least.

[Elanareon]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?



I like rogue overall really, so ill skip do dislikes. The Deft Hands talent is just WRONG! It should be in the skills tree.



Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?



Daggers are overpowered way much. The difference between the damage of daggers and two handers are so small that the speed of the dagger makes it so OP.



What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?



Most favorire assassin, least Ranger just because the animal unsummons itself every after area transition.



What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?



rank 4 stealth. Feign death. BTW i think stealth needs to be in skills as well just have a high dex and cun req. then have a combat stealth talent in rogue tree.

[Tekkaman Saber]

Like
Lockpicking, spotting traps and the ability to use cunning instead of strength for damage.

Dislike
Lack of emphasis on knives (since swords do not suit the class), lack of unique equipment (unless you want to ruin the character by giving them ridiculous str.)

This is due to aethetic reasons, for example if a user wnated to make a decent stealth/assasination themed character then it i only practical for them to use weaponry that can be hidden rather easily.
This is where knives could fit in because they are much easier to hide on your body than a pair of longswords >_>

I'm not syaing that the duel wielding is a bad idea but perhaps you could offer the rogue players a variety similar to the warriors.

What I suggest is keeping the duel wield tree but also introducing one exclusivly for knives.
The emphasis of this could be a boost to backstabbing and sneak attacking by granting bonuses/passive abilities that would encurage rogue players to use this route.

Modifié par Tekkaman Saber, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:23 .

[Wheed]

I think the rogue is a very fun class to play except for the dexterity bug for bow's.

[Joseph Silver]

I don't like how rogues have a talent tax in the form of Deft Hands and Stealth. To be an effective rogue, you need to invest eight talent points that could have been used on a second fighting style to make him more versatile. Right now, the rogue only has two fighting styles, but he might get more in the future. Deft Hands and Stealth should be skills, not talents.



Other than that, I find the rogue to be the most balanced class in the game.

[bconk55]

Like:



1. Enjoyable crowd-control.

2. Fun to play and position in light-medium combat.



Dislike:



1. Limited and limiting theft system: pick pocketing borders on tedium and picking locks is practically a requirement, not an alternative course. There is also no stealth element to theft, and no consequences, which ruins immersion.

2. Too automated: maximizing damage by running sustainables is not fun or engaging. Most activated abilities are essentially the same.

3. Play in heavy and/or difficult combat feels like micromanaging: since rogue is easily automated and mage is not, during my rogue play through, I found myself doing more with my mage (Morrigan) than my rogue during difficult encounters. I would switch to my rogue to place him behind the target, which, over time, feels more like micromanaging him than playing him.

4. Lack of gear.

5. Lack of clear difference between dual wielding rogues and warriors.

[tmelange]

I've almost always played through as a Rogue, perhaps 4 or 5 times now. It's my favorite class for this game, but perhaps that is a function of Human Noble being my favorite origin and my not liking to leave chests and rooms behind that I can't get into, especially in a location that I can't go back to later. I'd likely play Warrior more often if there was a way to bash open things. lol

I'm very happy with the Rogue talents and abilities. I don't use trap making at all, but I like to disable traps, and I love using poison. I don't use the stealth hardly at all, though that's likely a function of my preference for playing on the casual setting and not needing to do anything complicated to get through battles. Mainly, since I keep Alistair with me at all times (can't bear to part with him, lol), it makes sense for me to be a Rogue and for him to take care of all of the warrrior-ly duties.

I've seen some people complaining about dextrity bugs and whatnot but I've never noticed any problems and i've been able to kill quite effectively in all settings.

I like the armor and the weapons available to a two-handed Rogue. I was happy that there were Rogue-specific quests, and thought that was missing for the other classes. I did some stealing, but not a lot. Thinking about it now, I play a Rogue without using too many of the Rogue specific abilities, lol. I basically enjoy that I can open things, and wield two weapons, and backstab.

Generally, I would say that I don't think the classes were the highlights of this game. It was merely a selection to make based upon how conveniently you wanted to move through the game (e.g. being able to open things yourself, not having to have Leliana or Zev taking up a team slot) and whether or not you wanted access to the Rogue-specifc quests. I don't think there were a slew of compelling and excluding reasons to pick one class over the another, beyond the restriction on origin.

This is me rambling...

Modifié par tmelange, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:39 .

[bjdbwea]

Rogue is my favourite class for my PCs in this game. Why? For two reasons mainly: First, the city elf origin is my favourite, and the rogue is more fitting there than a pure fighter, I think. Second, it's also the most fitting class for my favourite weapon setup in this game, dual wielding "daggers" (I'd call them call short swords). It does feel a bit overpowered, though. In the DnD games the rogue couldn't deal so much damage directly, only through backstabbing (which also wasn't so easy to do as in DA).

[squid55801]

WHat I didn't like was the entire class being broken. Dex damage doesn't have any impact so archer is out. You are forced to get a high dex score but all the weapons that rely on dex are worthless endgame. Sure you can dual wield longswords but when you are forced to invest all your points into dex and cunning there is no room for error or adding any other stats. Backstabs don't always register. Traps were very difficult to target. And there was to much interference with other party members blocking the backstab

[squid55801]

Oh and how when pickpocketing if you scored an item you didn't know what it was unless you knew exactly what was in your inventory.

[Seagloom]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

I like how versatile rogues are. They can excel at melee or archery but also bring a few unique utility abilities to the table. Lockpicking is helpful. Stealth is great. Backstabbing is amazing. I also like that it works with any melee weapon; giving us the option to use greatswords or go sword & shield even if it is suboptimal and rogues cannot take those talents.

Unfortunately backstab is part of what I hate about playing rogues too. A rogue cannot backstab and activate a talent simultaneously, making them fairly reliant on autoattacking. Later on when stunning and positioning becomes even easier, there is virtually no need to ever use a talent instead of stealthing or stunning to set-up backstabs.

Rogues also suffer from a dismal armor variety. They have their own share of high-end equipment, but most of it looks the same. Warriors have several styles for heavy and massive armor. Whereas a rogue at level 1 rarely looks very different from a rogue at level 20.

Finally, rogues are probably the most stat dependent class. They need enough strength to wear the best leathers. More if you want to stick with swords. Dexterity is vital for defense and landing hits. Cunning is critical to several rogue and specialization talents. Willpower is handy to have enough stamina leftover after activating sustainables. Depending on build a rogue can have most of their stamina tied up in those.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Not really, no. Rogues are in my opinion the most balanced class in Dragon Age. It's warriors and mages that need serious tweaking. If they have any weakness it's a lack of ways to replenish stamina. That plagues warriors as well, though. The archery tree is also bland and not very powerful without piles of high end loot and several levels, but this issue also extends to warriors.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

Bard. This was a no brainer for me. I've loved any form of bard since my first exposure to them in Baldur's Gate, and learning of tabletop afterwards only strengthend that. Bard is a fun and versatile specialization with two party buffs, a very handy aggro wipe that makes Feign Death obsolete, and an infinite stunning song for its capstone. Plus it stacks! There is something amusing to me about the idea of my rogue singing a duet with Leliana for even higher bonuses.

My least favorite is assassin. It's a straightforward DPS aiding class for the most part. To be fair duelist is not much better, except it skews towards defense instead. Part of why I like bards in DA is all their talents are active. Passive feats are nice but boring as they offer no additional tactical options. The straight DPS boosting of assassin and DPS/defense of duelist is bland next to bard or ranger.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

My favorite rogue tree is rogue! Or whatever that tree is called. It's so varied and useful. It has everything: backstab improving talents, utility, combat manuevers, and scouting. It works well with almost any weapon you can find as well. I once played a greatsword wielding rogue and did okay thanks to this tree. Archery and dual wield shackle you to one weapon set-up to use any of their abilities.

My least favorite is archery. Archery in this game is weak until you find a rapid aim bow and pick up high end talents. Even with a Far Song bow, two Songs of Courage running, and several items of critical damage boosting gear it did not come anywhere near dual wielding. Its best aspect is staying away from combat. Which is ironic considering how high my archer's defense was.

Conclusion

Rogue has its flaws but they are a collection of nitpicks on my part. It's my favorite of DA's three classes and is neither too powerful nor weak, with just enough talent options to keep it interesting. It seems like I did more criticizing than praising above, but for the most part I enjoyed this class.

Modifié par Seagloom, 22 janvier 2010 - 11:21 .

[TheRealIncarnal]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
I love the Utility of the class. It's the class with the most freedom, and you can play it in so many ways. You can have a near warrior to a almost combat free character. Not to mention all of the abilities that the Rogue brings so many exclusive abilities to the party.

I really can't think of anything that I majorly dislike about the Rogue except for perhaps it's combat abilites are too similar to the Warrior's. Also, the armor availability is extrmely poor. You don't want to give them the aggro associated with Medium and heavier armor, and there's only a very few kinds of light armor.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Well, the class can be made to do anything very well. You can make it a combat machine, a powerful Archer, and so many other things, and it can do any of them extremely well. However, you can't make one do everything well so far as I've seen, so I think that balances things very well.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
My favorite is Bard. It has some extremely useful abilities to buff the party, control Aggro, and even do a cotinious AOE stun! They're all situational, but they're not over powering.

Assassin and Dualist are both extremely useful combat centric specializations, they compliment nicely and don't overlap.

Ranger is a bit of a different case. It's not that it's not useful, it's just that there's never any reason to go beyond the first rank. The biggest thing that Ranger does is that it adds yet another element to your party. The wolf is very useful, and frankly the bear and the spider aren't really worth the extra points, and the last ability to increase their power isn't worth the investment.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
The Rogue specific combat line is extremely useful. The lock picking isn't as useful, since a high Dex score seems to do just as well, but it's far from useless.

Really, the only things I don't like very much is the Dual Weilding line, simply because it turns an otherwise "Support Talent" class into one that can run in and really kick ass toe to toe and face to face with enemies.

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:41 .

[MonkeyChief117]

squid55801 wrote...

Oh and how when pickpocketing if you scored an item you didn't know what it was unless you knew exactly what was in your inventory.

I also like when it says 'stealing success' with no sign that you actually stole anything at all!

[Phex]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
I like playing a rogue because of the fast paced combat and well, because I just like to play rogues from a roleplaying point of view. Lockpicking is fun, stealthing (especially during combat) is fun, laying traps and setting up ambushes is fun!

My biggest dislike with the rogue class would be the lack of any kind of nice armor designs. Compared to warriors, rogues have very little option to look different. The armor looks currently in the game are very... Formal and generic, almost something you would give to a person who works for the army but outright refuses or cannot physically wear heavy armor. I'd like to see cloaks, hoods, dark colours. You know, the classic garments you imagine when thinking of a rogue.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Assa/Duelist rogue placed behind the target with Momentum, Dueling and Tainted Blood (or whatever the Warden's Keep special activated ability is) activated is a damage monster... Which kind of makes anything else during combat a waste of time. Why use an ability that takes several seconds to perform and does less damage than a single backstab? Not to mention you can probably do 2-3 backstabs during the time it takes for that other ability to be performed.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Assassin and Duelist. Duelist because of the Dueling skill, Assassin just for being cool.  (And yeah, the skills you get are quite useful as well.) I haven't properly tried out the Bard yet but the songs and Distraction are nice I guess, plus if you make a high Cunning rogue the specialisation is a good option to pick.

Ranger would be my least favourite of the four, as the pets are slow to summon during combat and disappear when you switch zones. Instead of having all the Ranger talents give you a different pet, it would be nice to just be able to summon one well rounded pet and have something else for the other talents. I was hoping the Ranger tree would enable a rogue to use heavy armor and benefit from 2handers in some way (similar to how a mage turns into a melee class with Arcane Warrior). Instead, the Ranger at the moment is just a rogue who can summon a pet. More definition for the specialisation would be nice to see.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
My favourite would the dual wielding tree with Momentum in it. However once I pick up Momentum all those dual wielding skills start feeling useless and more like a waste of time as I mentioned before, so I usually just pick Momentum and then start dishing my points in the specialisation trees, and of course the Rogue tree which is a necessary tree to put points in and mostly the talent there are all attractive.

My least favourite would be Archery, it feels like I'm doing it wrong every time I start a ranger. My archers always end up feeling very lackluster compared to a Momentum dex rogue and the damage output is very weak compared to the other options I have. Being able to do some crowd control from range is a nice thing to have though, but with the long aiming time mages will be a better choice for CC purposes.

Modifié par Sefferz, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:53 .

[jennamarae]

Likes:

Rogue's are generally my favorite characters in the game. I like that they can deal some great damage, as a DW anyway, and not be completely squishy.

Dislikes:

As others have said I dislike being forced to keep a rogue in my party if I'm not playing one but want to be able to open the chests. The armor options are extremely limited unless I want to stick my rogues in robes or heavier armors. Neither of which are completely horrible options I suppose, but compared to the other two classes rogues got the short end of the stick when it comes to armor. And just as a minor nitpick, I hate that Dual Sweep isn't targeted.. I can't even count how many times I won't notice that my Rogue has turned the wrong direction and dual sweeps the air instead of the enemies...

Edit: I also dislike that we're limited to Zev and Leliana as rogue party members. Five warriors if you count Dog, but only two rogues?

Over/under-powered:

Archers are horribly underpowered in general, with the exception of a few choice skills. Doesn't keep me from playing them, but I would like to be able to do at least decent damage when playing an archer instead of either being forced to take some DW talents to be useful to the party for something other than lockpicking and disarming traps or being practically useless til I get AoS, Scattershot, and the Master Archer talents.

I haven't noticed anything on any of my rogue's that has been over-powered.

Best specializations:

Assassin is by far the best specialization, with Bard coming in a close second.

Worst specializations:

Duelist. The talents just aren't that appealing to me. Ranger isn't completely horrible, but I forget to even use it half the time (my fault not the game's I know) and an extra animal in the party doesn't really make the difference between winning and losing a fight.

Favorite Rogue Talent Trees:

Lock-picking is an absolute must have for me, as is the branch that gets you Lethality. Saves me from having to pump three stats.

Modifié par jennamarae, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:53 .