375 réponses à ce sujet

[Curlain]

TrinityDivine wrote...

Kipferl wrote...

I love to play a rogue.
As for the specializations, I would love to love the ranger but cannot even play one because

- for me beeing a ranger means beeing an archer too
Currently however it makes no sense for me to play a ranged character as compared with a a dual-wield rogue with "Momentum" an archer does too little damage.
And you cannot upgrade a bow with runes.
Plus the cooldown of "Arrow of Slaying" is too long

- the summons do not persist on area transition and the cooldown for summoning is too long to call them anew before the fights are (almost) over
I have tried with a mod that should make the animal persist on area transition and that worked - but then I suddenly had 2 or 3 animals at my side which felt like cheating.

The most fun I've had in the game was playing a dual-wielding rogue with a pet. You don't "have to" be an archer to be a ranger in this game so why let other games' rules hinder you here?

And even in other games and fantasy settings ranger did not always equal archer, a lot of D&D based games in the past always had a dual-wield direction you could pursue as a ranger often allowing a ranger character unique advantages in this direction (NWN and NWN2 for example).  And of course there are famous ranger characters who don't use bows much, such as Drizzt (and his dual-wielding) from Forgotten Realms and of course Minsc from Baldur's Gate who seemed to be naturally set up to be a two-handed sword wielder, and Aragorn from LOTR, though Ranger means something slightly different in that setting.  So agreed with above, nothing says a ranger has to be an archer 

Modifié par Curlain, 25 janvier 2010 - 03:07 .

[Focaccia]

I got one suggestion, better bows for archers perhaps? I find most of the bows in the game are just bleh.. and why is a crossbow strength based?

More Armor sets for rogues !

[SidheKate]

# What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?



As with many, many others, I love the versatility of the Rogue. It looks to give the widest variety of styles of play. I dislike, as others have also mentioned, that there are clearly more and less effective builds for party utility and combat. My favorite build (more below) is merely a support character, making independent action very difficult (e.g. Circle/Fade).



# Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?



As with everything, it depends on what they are over/underpowered for. In sheer combat damage, the dual weapon assassin/duelist is powerful, and in support the archer ranger/bard is weak but utilitarian. I see this as comparable to a damager/healing mage. The difference is a damaging mage does more damage than a combat rogue, and a healing mage keeps the party alive better than a supporting rogue.



# Rogue talents and specializations:



I love playing an archer/ranger with a heavy emphasis on cunning (plus lethality) because of both the roll-playing options it gives (virtual success on all persuade options) and it is a very classic "hunter" build, but it is clearly weaker when it comes to combat damage. This is in addition to the other complaints about the summoning down time (making it more efficient to switch between animals so you don't have to stand around and wait after zoning) and the brown bear constantly being stuck behind the rest of the party and unable to engage monsters (or having to stop and reposition the party before engaging battle... every single time).



There is nothing wrong with sacrificing some skills in favor of others, but the vast difference between rogue builds makes it feel more like compromising effectiveness for fun rather than balancing strengths and weaknesses.

[fchopin]

* What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

Very easy question, I like just about everything except archery as it is very weak.
Rogue is my favorite class with 2nd place for mage.
You can do just about anything in the game playing as a rogue and it is almost impossible to play without at least one in the game.
You can see already that this is unbalanced because any team without a rogue will be missing out.

I love the animations when my rogue does a kill, same for dw warrior kills.
I have not used a 2h in any of my last 4 plays as I like to turn Alistair in to a dw warrior.
I could go on for another 10 pages but I think you got the point.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Overpowered: don’t change anything. Underpowered: archery

* What are your favorite Rogue specializations?
Always go for Assassin & Dualist, used to go for assassin first but now I go for dualist first.

What are your least favorite?
All are good.

* What are your favorite Rogue talent trees?
Dual Weild

What are your least favorite?
Archery

Modifié par fchopin, 25 janvier 2010 - 04:18 .

[Vedli]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

I like the versatilely of rogues. I like how many support abilities they can bring to a group. I like how you can get several very different play styles out so few talents. My favourite rogue build is also one of the more "out of the box"
builds, a strength rogue who uses two handed weapons. I like this because it feels very samurai-ish. It has a speed and a finesse that I didn't feel when playing as a two handed warrior (that felt more like being a slow barbarian). I was also pleased to discover that two handers have there own unique backstab animation. I would like it if future development of the rogue class added a two handed tree for rogues to use that emphasised that samurai feeling of precision and speed. while warriors retained a more brutal barbarian style for using two handers.

I don't like the lack of armour choices. In the game there are precisely three light armour choices (Shadow of the Empire, Felons Coat) and Wades Superior Drakeskin armor) that are worth anything and two of them are bought from stores. Two of these use the studded armour model and one uses the normal leather armour model. So While my warriors look great and my mages look not to bad, my rogues look almost exactly the same as they did at level one. Also why the lack of medium armour? There's only one full suit of it and it's tier 4 at that. I kind of wish that medium had a less of a strength requirement. so that rogues could take advantage of it but first they we would need more of it in the game first. As a suggestion why not put in more medium armour that appeals to strength rogues? It would certainly help vary up the appearance of rogues with out the threat issues that can come up from wearing heavy (or even massive) armour. But please use some imagination when creating the models/skins. I don't want the disappointment that happens when you put on Wade's Superior Dragonskin Armor and realise your wearing something that looks exactly like something Alistair was wearing when you first met him at the beginning of the game!

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Nothing really overpowered. Probably the strongest single target build in the game is the assassin/bard cunning rogue backstab build and that can rendered almost useless if the target has a shield and knows how to use it.
I think that archery is underpowered in general so more work needs to be done also it's very stamina intensive. Two of the specializations also have little use for rogue archers (although the same is true of warrior archers) and the cost of sustaining a ranger pet is very high (albeit understandable).

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

1.Bard
2. Duelist
3. Assassin
4. Ranger

There all fairly close together to be honest. I put bard first because it goes with anything. Ranger is last because it costs so much to sustain. I put duelist 2nd because it has more use to archers than assassin thus more general use (even if it is just a bonus to attack).

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

My favorite rogue talent tree is proabaly the rogue tree itself. Then duel wielding with archery bringing up the rear. I like the rogue tree most becuase it contains all the abilties that make you different from a warrior. I also feel like the rogue dual wielding and archer trees should be different from the warrior ones.

Modifié par Vedli, 25 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .

[Metswiki772]

Rogue is my favorite class.



Likes: I really like the lockpicking being restricted to a degree to rogues. I love the grenade/traps/poisons and stealthing.



Dislikes: The general uselessness of a bow, particularly the inability to enchant them. The inability to 'try' to pick a lock thats beyond your skill level, and having no physical element to lockpicking ala Oblivion or Fallout.

[yuri102010]

I say that the rogue class was really fun because it allows ya to open locked chests and able to disarm those pain in the but death traps and able to sneak that is the best thing when your exploring o3o.



I would like to have more gear for the rogues actually because in the game their wasn't that much neat armor or goodies to get as the rogue.

[ninnisinni97]

I kinda like it, but I never play it myself. Dies far too easily for my taste, and it doesn't really make up for it with it's combat talents.



My favorite spec. is probably duelist. My least favorite is ranger, really useless class in my taste. I had thought it would be more archery-specialized, so it was kind of a dissapointment.

[RabidWHM]

I figure they based the ranger class off the basic MMORPG "Ranger class". Guild wars and WoW have rangers that Charm/tame animals. Those classes also specialize in range weapons. Here archery doesn't seem to have that special something that made me want to only use it. It did help in the final boss alot tho lol. Also I found the special arrows to be in such limited quanity. I dont remember if they do, but archer mobs should drop arrows. Another thing that bothered me is that I would have to send so much coin on one arrow? Maybe if they had a quiver/stack of arrows then it'd be a different story.

I mean I started ranger first. Once I hit 7 I became a ranger. I found the wolf to die pretty fast and I found it a little disappointing at first. I mastered ranger and the animals became much for effective for battle. I can't remember too well which one was good for which situation but each animal has their own personal strengths and weaknesses. I know the spider would sticky web the mob and that gave my Coup de grace ability to kick in. Also they grab aggro/ tank some of those loose darkspawn that might be eating your mage. The thing that infuriated me was that I had to re-summon it every time I zoned... Ugh that was so annoying.

[Clumber]

My main problem with rogues is that you have only two options of weapons. Duel wielding or the underpowered archery, so there really isn't much variation unless you decide to go with a weapon choice that the class doesn't really support. Warriors have twice as many options and Mages have so many choices you are likely to never have the same build twice.

[TheOncomingStorm]

I'm sure it's been said, but, my only beef with the Rogue class is the emphasis on two seperate stats.  You need to bump your cunning high enough so you can open chests, but that means your dexterity takes a backseat.

Considering that daggers seem to be the best option for melee combat for rogues, and dexterity and strength are what your damage is based off of, emphasizing cunning seems to take away valuable stat points.

I myself would love to see a dex modifer added to cunning checks, but around 10 points higher.  So, if you need to have 22 cunning to have the last level of open locks, why not put a big OR in there for 32 dexterity.  At least some skills would always have to be cunning (persuade comes to mind), but, it does not seem out of the realm of possibility that a person with super dexterous fingers could pick a lock, even if they were a functional idiot. (Enchantment!)

[hyper_dragon]

I love the rogue class. Dual Wielding + Momentum + Swift Salve (for kicks) is just nothing short of awesome. Stun/Paralyze your enemy (and have Coup de Grace - one of the most necessary abilities for a melee rogue in my honest opinion) and you become a backstabbing jackrabbit on speed.


One of the most frustrating things about playing any other class is the inability to pick locks or open chests, especially before you get to recruit a rogue in your party. On the other hand, this ability seems to be only in-character for rogues themselves - as they are the ones who value dexterity and deftness above all else.


My preferred specializations are Assassin & Duelist, because they really work well for a DPS character in melee situations. I was disappointed to not find a more archery-specialized Specialization. I haven't made use of the Ranger specialization yet, but one of the abilities in the Bard specialization - Captivating Song - just doesn't seem to fit for a rogue. In my honest opinion, the last thing a melee rogue - especially in light armour - wants to do is to remain in one place. The ability to stun all enemies around the rogue is handy, but standing there and drawing attention of the enemies as they try to stop the song just does not sound like a good idea (even as a "last resort", it still seems like a bad option). A rogue archer is better off Feigning Death or Stealthing to re-distance oneself/drop the enemy's interest in him or her in favour of (hopefully!) their tank.


For talent trees themselves, Mobility and Whirlwind make me prefer the Dual-Weild talent tree, but the Rogue tree itself has the most utility (for lockpicking and taking advantage of some of the more rogue-like talents). Archery is alright - they have some pretty sweet stuff there - but I have a hard time selecting it for my rogue because of the sheer difference in attack speed and the lack of ability to enchant your bow (Silverite runes would be nice for them =P).


Above all else (other than Captivating Song), the one thing I'd change about a rogue is the lack of armour options, as mentioned above. I love my rogue characters to bits, but I'd love the ability to dress them in armour that is more aesthetically pleasing (like Warden Commander from the Warden's Keep DLC, or Armour of Diligence from the base game), as well as granting set and/or piece-by-piece bonuses, like one available for Warriors and even Mages.

Modifié par hyper_dragon, 25 janvier 2010 - 09:10 .

[Giles_Warrior_Champion]

SuperMaoriFulla wrote...

ztonkin wrote...

I didn't like how only a Rogue could spot/disarm traps or pick locks. I liked their backstab move, it was very useful. I didn't like the play dead technique, just felt it was kinda useless. Overall, my favorite class.

Rogue for the win as well.

I'm kind of the opposite when it came to the skills/talents. Sure you can use a mod to make it so that your warrior can bust open a lock, or your mage gets the ubiquitous open spell, but in general lockpicking and constructing/dismantling traps would take some specialized training, especially the more complex varieties. Granted hunters might use snares and other traps for hunting game, but locksmithing has tended to be a specialized craft, so it makes sense that lockpicking would be as well.

Well when i get that warrior who has 80+ str I think i can kickdown a door or smash in the top of the chest. forget the lock who needs to deal with it when you can take your maul/mace/axe/2h sword/sword and just bash in the top of the chest or kick in the door?! you see broken chests with stuff in them that have been smashed up so there ya go...and if you want to make it so sometimes the stuff inside the chest becomes broken thats fine because then it would still make it better as a rogue but at least the warriors would have a chance at it...either way it is rather annyoing because rogues can get so much more $ that way and I don't want to make sure that on every play through either im a rogue or i have lil/zev with me...

[dkjestrup]

Likes:



Great DPS, quite versatile and fun to play, with a lot of options.



Dislikes:



Not having enough skill points to get everything! Really, lockpicking should be a skill, and combined with traps. Poison should be combined with Herbalism, and Stealing should be a part of Stealth.



Dex bug means I can't solo with a Dual Wielder. Please Bioware, why on earth does it take so long, PC got it ages ago! It shouldn't have been a bug to begin with!



Best Specializations:



All of them are good. But for crying out loud, why can't us console players control our pets? It's insane! Assassin if I had to chose, though Duelist comes close because the bonus doesn't require high stats (Bard).



Worst Specializations:



Ranger, because I can't control my pet >.>



Favourite Rogue Tree:



Dual Wielding. Dual Wielders only need Momentum and Riposte (5 talents) to do good damage, and so can focus on Rogue skills for most of the game. Archers suffer a terrible hit rate, and also require the entire tree to be any good.

[jazzy B 3]

I would prefer lock picking and stealth to be skills not talents. As a skill lock picking then doesn't take up valuable combat abilities as the extra cash does not equate to being better in combat usually. If you retained the rogues ability to unlock tier 0 chests, but other classes had to spend a point in lock picking to do the same, you'd end up with them still the only ones able to unlock the highest tier, but you wouldn't feel obligated to take a rogue which offers more freedom in playing style.

[Lord Phoebus]

TheOncomingStorm wrote...

I'm sure it's been said, but, my only beef with the Rogue class is the emphasis on two seperate stats.  You need to bump your cunning high enough so you can open chests, but that means your dexterity takes a backseat.

With 4 ranks of lockpicking (each rank is 10 points) you only need a 30 cunning (counting item bonuses) to open every lock in the game.  If you want to use stealth against all the bosses you need a cunning in the low 40s.  I'm not sure what it is for combat stealing.  But you can make a rogue with a 22 cunning and put the rest in dexterity, you'll miss out on combat stealing and being able to use stealth against some of the bosses, but you can use items to get your cunning high enough to open all the locks (Dead Thaig Shanker, Key to the City and Helm of Honnleath). 

[taurinsm]

I would like to see some locked containers actually contain good loot. I was dissapointed that the only benefit of having a character with lockpick skill was a small gain in gold, as most of the loot found in locked chest was of the "sell immediately' variety.

also some of the archery tree could be redone. I liked arrow of slaying, shattering shot, pinning shot, etc, but thought overall skills took too long considering their power. Or maybe other skill lines (dual wielding) need to be brought down to earth. this applies to warriors as well.

as far as dual wielding goes, the last skill in the passive tree is a bit of a contradiction; you need 36 dexterity to get it, meaning you will naturally do lots of damage with daggers; I think that I did about 1-2 more damage when I switched from using a longsword/dagger to longsword/longsword. perhaps daggers are overpowered? they are quite fast.

I think stealth is a bit too easy to use, but I can't imagine you'd be able to make shade/cover/lack of cover actually play a role in that.

the crime wave quest line in denerim was sweet.

A variety of light armor looks would be a nice addition.

I liked all of the specializations. Assassin was my fav.

Modifié par taurinsm, 25 janvier 2010 - 11:37 .

[kaya08]

[*]What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
I liked its versatility mostly. I liked having a lot of activatable and passive talents, as opposed to sustainables. I liked being able to disable / throw down a few traps. I liked being able to sneak ahead to get in to position to kill mages and whatnot at the start of the fight. It was a nice revenge for my warrior characters.

[*]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Backstabbing damage is pretty godly, you never really need to use anything else. Which is a pity seeing as we have so many skills.
Duel wielding two full sized weapons is effectively gimping yourself so its not currently worth putting a point into it.
All the Archer sustainables hinder as much as help and none are really worth the stamina. Archer progression accross the board seems screwy actually. Master Archer is a very desirable skill for a melee fighter who wants to be able to hold their own at range but the 3 previous skills are pretty useless to one.

[*]What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite
[*]I like assasin and duelist. Assassin is very well put together, some kind of stealth based attack with a new animation would make it even better. But no i like it.
Not entirely sure what I like about duelist tbh. The buff is good and its cost is great. The move is another recycled animation which makes the fact that its a bad version of the original move that bit more dissapointing. It would be nice if the critical buff worked with a ranger, would probably be more useful to them.
Ranger has way too long a cd, the way pets dissapear everytime you rezone makes it even worse and the cast time makes it an exercise in frustration. Found hte wolf to be the best pet 9/10 times but not good enough to be useful without putting 4 points in.
Bard ... I haven't used much. Any skill that turns you into a totem isn't very desirable for a main character, imo. I should give it a go really.

[*]What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
[*]I like the dual wielding line the most. Dual striking could be better and less situational but its probably designed more towards a warrior. I'd stuggle to come up with a single other criticism of it. Lots of nice moves. Momentum is great (coupled with backstabbing its a bit too good).
Stealth is an all or nothing skill. You either put 4 points in or none at all. Changing the second skill to make it usable in a fight would be great but put on a big enough cooldown for it to be impossible to use more than once.
Lockpicking feels like wasting points to me.
The two skills previous to lethality seem quite useless. Lethality makes up for it i suppose. Whenever you evade an attack with the evasion skill it stops auto attacking, good skill though.
The feign death skill is currently useless, seeing as stealth is so much better. I'd delete it and replace with something else.
Archers ... well. I never use aim or defensive fire, because they're not very good. It makes Master Archer a very expensive spec. Arrow of Slaying and the AoE skill should have a shorter cooldown, even if it comes at the cost of a bit of damage. Shattering Blow should have a more reliable knockdown and accuracy.
Difficult to judge how good they are seeing as they're still gimped with the dex bug though.

[*]

Modifié par kaya08, 26 janvier 2010 - 12:56 .

[Crell77]

I like how rogues can pick locks, I don't like how after a certen level, when the weapon speciualization for 2 full sized weapons is learned that stregth is required for the weapons.

i feal that rogues are a bit underpowered when it comes to full sized weaapons.

I like the ranger the most, pets come iin handy, i don't like the bard, i don't use buff spells alot.

i like the weapon tallent trees the most, 2 weapons have been a favorite of mine in other rpg games, i'm not reeal fond of the ranged talent trees, I never have had much fun standing back in a fight.

[napshock]

What I like about rogues:
Versatility and utility. Being able to spec the class as support/damager and the different combinations of weapon mastery makes it fun.

What I dislike about rogues:

• Ranger Pet issues. I'm fine with losing the pet when transitioning to a different map as long as I can save the presets on tactics. It's really annoying to set the tactics each time, specially on wolves w/c has a lot of skills. The ability to keep the pets up all the time would be the best fix, though.
• When on stealth, my party automatically stops following me when enemies are detected. I would like to have that option using the start/stop follow switch and not do it automatically.
• The DLCs rewards the medium/heavy armor characters. Would be nice if there are more light armor options.
• I think stealing should have more consequences. For example, if the steal failed the npc would be able to fight or lose chat options.
• Using elves for rogues should be encouraged. But the race benefits for elves are very skewed towards mages. If you can add a bit of cunning bonuses to elves then tha

My preferred specializations in order:

• Ranger
• Assassin
• Duelist
• Bard

[Lakmoots]

Here is some feedback everyone can agree with...

If you do not fix the issue with controlling pets on the *console* versions then you may as well remove the Ranger specialisation entirely...

It is completely ****ing useless...

There is a thread below on how someone got a glitch that allowed them to take control of their pet once - I am not sure I see any reason to prevent this, or Advanced Reanimation from working.

[draxynnus]

Focaccia wrote...

I got one suggestion, better bows for archers perhaps? I find most of the bows in the game are just bleh.. and why is a crossbow strength based?

Both bows and crossbows are both Strength and Dex-based. Crossbows have a Strength requirement, but as long as you meet the requirement, Dex is the only thing that matters (the optimum attribute setup for using a crossbow is just enough Strength and the rest in Dex). Bows have a dex requirement, but Strength influences the damage.

I think this actually does make some sense, if you consider the crossbows to be early ones that need to be pulled back by hand. For a bow, the power will depend in part on how far you can pull back the string. For a crossbow, however, it's really a question of whether you can pull the string back far enough to reach the trigger mechanism. If you can't, you just can't use that crossbow. Once you can, though, you get no additional benefit for being able to pull the string back further than the trigger mechanism.

hyper_dragon wrote...

My preferred specializations are Assassin & Duelist, because they really work well for a DPS character in melee situations. I was disappointed to not find a more archery-specialized Specialization. I haven't made use of the Ranger specialization yet, but one of the abilities in the Bard specialization - Captivating Song - just doesn't seem to fit for a rogue. In my honest opinion, the last thing a melee rogue - especially in light armour - wants to do is to remain in one place. The ability to stun all enemies around the rogue is handy, but standing there and drawing attention of the enemies as they try to stop the song just does not sound like a good idea (even as a "last resort", it still seems like a bad option). A rogue archer is better off Feigning Death or Stealthing to re-distance oneself/drop the enemy's interest in him or her in favour of (hopefully!) their tank.

I've found Captivating Song on Leliana to be incredibly useful when you get swarmed. It doesn't seem to gather that much aggro, and shutting down that many mobs gives the rest of your party time to do their thing without being pounded on (okay, sure, it's the job of the tanks to be pounded on. Less so the mages).

[Cancermeat]

The rougue to me seemed more like a stealthy warrior rather than a unique class. I wish they had some unique weapons only they could use.

[Joseph Silver]

The latest version of Combat Tweaks features rogues automatically backstabbing and disarming traps. Setting the Traitor Among Traitors option on makes the party's rogues automatically flank the enemy for a backstab. Very nice.

CLICK HERE for the mod.

[Zabaniya]

TheOncomingStorm wrote...

I'm sure it's been said, but, my only beef with the Rogue class is the emphasis on two seperate stats.  You need to bump your cunning high enough so you can open chests, but that means your dexterity takes a backseat.

Considering that daggers seem to be the best option for melee combat for rogues, and dexterity and strength are what your damage is based off of, emphasizing cunning seems to take away valuable stat points.

I myself would love to see a dex modifer added to cunning checks, but around 10 points higher.  So, if you need to have 22 cunning to have the last level of open locks, why not put a big OR in there for 32 dexterity.  At least some skills would always have to be cunning (persuade comes to mind), but, it does not seem out of the realm of possibility that a person with super dexterous fingers could pick a lock, even if they were a functional idiot. (Enchantment!)

You know... you don't even need to invest in strength.  Bum rush those stat points into Lethality and Cunning takes Strength's place.