375 réponses à ce sujet

[draxynnus]

Yriss wrote...
 I remember after Zevran's failed attack on my party, he was lying on the ground, telling his whole story, and all I could think of is, "Where are his pants? His naked thighs are distracting."

It's Zevran. That's probably exactly why he chose that set.

[thagen91]

• What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

They're fairly versatile and have lots of powerful passive talents.  I often find my warriors out of stamina very early on, unable to use most of their "activateable" abilities much, if at all.

One thing I'd change is to make lockpicking solely based on the cunning skill. (Or make it into a skill accessible to everyone, like herbalism or trap-making.)  To have to spend 4 talent points on it is a bit excessive, especially when rogues already have more class-related skills than warriors or mages (16 for rogues, including lockpicking, while only 8 for warriors [4 of which I don't find very necessary], and only 4 for mages).  One is left with only a few points to spend on dual weapon or archery talents.

Lastly, it's very annoying when locked chests are placed in areas such as Arl Eamon's estate in Denerim, where you can only bring the main charcter.  Meaning that unless you are a rogue with lockpicking talents you cannot unlock them.  Unlocking them isn't necessary, of course, but it's still very annoying not to be able to do so.

• Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Well, this is probably more just a design issue rather than overpoweredness, but as ranger you're able to simply hide somewhere, send out your animal and simply resummon it each time it dies until the enemy's finished.  You can also stealth past enemies to avoid a difficult battle and then just exit to the next area where your party rejoins you.

Archery seems to be a waste to put talent points into, though I've always just treated it as more like something that's nice to have just in case rather than a standalone skill.  For instance, I usually have my rogue's tactics set so that he starts with a bow, but only until a partymember starts being attacked by melee, at which point he switches to his own melee weapons.

• What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

I find ranger to be the most powerful and unique overall; having a 540 hp bear with abilities like overwhelm makes a much larger difference than having a few relatively small boosts to the rogue himself.  I don't really have any least favorite; duelist and assasin seem to be fairly equal and I haven't had the opportunity to try out bard as of yet.

• What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

The first two are both good (the ones ending in Feign Death and Evasion), though Feign Death doesn't seem particuarly useful to me.  As I mentioned before, I think the lockpicking talent tree should be removed since it takes up too many points.

Stealth is interesting; though it only really becomes useful in battle (since you can't even use it in battle beforehand) after you get the final upgrade.  I think it could be shortened to 1 or 2 talents and incorporated into the first rogue talent tree (the one with Feign Death- it could even replace Feign Death, for instance).  That would also free up a couple more talent points.

Modifié par thagen91, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:53 .

[SeanMurphy2]

1)
I liked that it was versatile in how you could build your character.

You could be a front-on heavy fighter, someone who was in and out of stealth, someone focused on backstabbing, someone who co-operated with the mage spells like stun or freeze, an archer or another approach.

Also I like how people could use different attribute builds. I had a mix of dexterity and strength. But I know others were able to have high strength or high cunning or high dexterity.

I really liked the concept of backstabbing where it would give you an attack and damage boost for attacking them from the rear.

I think it was good to use an attribute like cunning to boost certain talents (or use attributes during dialogue). It meant attributes had multiple functions.

2)
Don't know. But I would be careful about mindlessly re-balancing a list of things people found underpowered or overpowered.

I think you have to retain a sense of the bigger picture when rebalancing and have some overall creative vision. Rather than just nerfing everything that is strong. And boosting everything that is weak. 

3)
I don't have a preference. I tried Assassin, Ranger and Duelist. They seemed to offer something different to each other. I liked having a ranger creature to give myself a bigger party. Duelist seemed to make me a better fighter. Assassin seemed to improve backstabbing.
 
4)
I always took three levels of the Coup de Grace tree. It meant better backstabbing and dirty fighting was a useful stun. I generally had one rogue take the lockpicking tree. Stealth tree could be useful for scouting ahead. Or if you wanted to use stealth in combat.

I always used Dual wield weapons. In my first playthrough I focused on the Riposte tree which was useful in co-ordination with cone of cold to shatter enemies. In my second playthrough I focused on the momentum tree which worked well with stun, auto backstabs and stamina regen gear.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 30 janvier 2010 - 12:26 .

[Yriss]

draxynnus wrote...

Yriss wrote...
 I remember after Zevran's failed attack on my party, he was lying on the ground, telling his whole story, and all I could think of is, "Where are his pants? His naked thighs are distracting."

It's Zevran. That's probably exactly why he chose that set.

Oh. I never thought of that... I have greatly underestimated him then!

[G00dne55]

• What do you like or dislike about the Rogue? 

like: stealth (effective scouting ahead for the group), damage output, tap disarming, trap setting (Although I would like to see a couple of rogue specific vendors dedicated to selling the recipes rather then their being widely distributed), lock picking. 

dislike: manually flanking (unless the rogue is the player created character), armor variety/appearance (For instance, the female rogue armor should look protective, that is, cover the chest. You've already done  enough for the adolescents with the granny-panties "sex scenes."), scarcity of disabling abilities (A few more stuns disorients or incapacitating  abilities, maybe even a specialization dedicated to them, would add flavor and interest to the class.), unrealistically short range of bombs (Small heavy objects can be thrown more then 15 feet. Reduce the damage if longer range would be overpowered.)

• Is there anything you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue? 

underpowered: sword wielding rogues (Diverting statistic points away from dexterity and cunning seems to drastically hinder the rogue's overall performance.) 

overpowered: stealthed bombing (That is, remaining stealthed after throwing a bomb; a chance to break stealth would be more interesting.)

• What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite? 

favorite specializations: assassination (Increased damage from rogue's main sources of damage seemed like the only way to go.)

least favorite specializations: Dueling (It would have been useful if it were possible to run momentum at the same time, but since momentum adds the most overall damage there is little or no reason to use these talents except to switch it on for the fourth tier talent in a very few circumstances. Since the rogue is not a tank, can use dexterity to mitigate almost all incoming damage or will not be engaged in direct melee and can stealth out of unwanted attention from enemies, this specialization seemed like a waste of points.)

•  What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? what are your least favorite Rogue talent trees? 

favorite talent trees: the line featuring Whirlwind 

least favorite talent trees: the line featuring dual weapon striking (If the upkeep cost for momentum were lower and stamina less scarce or replenishable--diverting points to willpower from dexterity or cunning is suboptimal--it might be useful to activate these talents for additional damage. As they stand they are simply more activated damage talent filler.)

Modifié par G00dne55, 04 février 2010 - 02:50 .

[SuperMedbh]

Complaint with stealth and tactics: I'd like a tactics option for "no automatic attacks whilst in stealth mode". Right now, I'll stealth (lvl 4), then have to really quickly move lest my character start an attack and come out of stealth. The alternative would be to change tactics each time I want to go stealthing, but that's just as cumbersome.

[medusa_hair]

I have played through as a city elf warrior and as a human noble rogue, and I preferred the rogue for a couple of reasons:

Obviously the lockpicking is essential to getting as much interesting loot as possible.  I love loot.  The problem I had when I was a warrior was the amount of loot I felt I was leaving behind in chests, etc., unless I used up a party slot for Zevran.  While amusing, he wasn't particularly useful in a fight.    Anyway, to answer the questions:

Likes:  LOVE lockpicking.  LOVE dual-wielding (and DA:O was my first try at this skill but how did I ever live without it?)  I know that's not strictly a rogue skill (since my warrior used it too) but LOVED it.

Dislikes:  Stealth.  I didn't even take one rank in this.  It didn't seem to apply to anything that was going on.  Feign death was another one that I didn't bother with, though this may be because I generally like to smash and bash front-line fight and chose rogue only so I could get more loot.

Favorite specialization:  Duelist.  Did I say I LOVE dual-wielding?

Useless (for me) skills:  trap making (though I did disarm).  Didn't throw any bombs either.  Or make any poison.  (maybe next time, but that kind of thing doesn't really appeal to me)

Overall, I liked the rogue.  I built it so I could be as near the front of the line as possible.  I agree with some posts that say that the armor is pretty homogeneous for the rogue.  I did have the drake scale armor, though, and wore it through to the end of the game.  I did enjoy kicking people, though as the game progressed that was less and less effective, but it looked cool.
 

[mangozoid]

Victor Wachter wrote...

And now it's the Rogue's turn. As we continue to plan for the future of the Dragon Age franchise, we're interested in hearing your feedback regarding the different classes.

In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Rogue class. You can still comment in last week's Warrior topic. Next week's topic will cover the Mage.

• What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
• Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
• What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
• What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Be sure to answer the poll on Rogue specializations as well!

  Is this forum still active -- I've got plenty to add re. Rogue class?

[SeanMurphy2]

mangozoid



I think it is active until they close the thread. They had a thread like this about the tactics system and closed it at some point.

[Erlemar]

Dex Rogue is owerpowered. With his insane defence he is almost invulnerable to usual attacks. Adding to this exetremely high speed of attack we have the best class in game - almost immunity to usual attacks and great damage.

This should be nerfed or there should be improvement in other builds.



Specialisations are rather good, but imho Duelist is most usefull of them.

[Big Mikey Mike]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

Like - Some truly unique moves.  Backstabbing, stealth, pickpocketing were really neat

Dislike - Necessary to open lockboxes and doors.  It'd be nice to bash them open, even if we don't get XP for it

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Overpowered - No, other than Momentum in general being super awesome, but I think that has a lot to do with how poor the stamina system and the activated abilities are than Momentum itself being too good.

Underpowered - Archers.  It'd be nice if special arrows were just a single item (like how you have infinite normal arrows), and if bows or arrows could be enchanted.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

They're all pretty good actually, though Ranger felt like it wanted to be a completely separate class.  Pets are very unroguelike.  In fact you could argue that Archers in general really wanted to be a separate class.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I liked them all really, except Archery (see above).  Archery sucks compared to melee.

Modifié par Big Mikey Mike, 31 janvier 2010 - 03:45 .

[Drayvenn]

[*]What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
I love anything and everything about Backstabbing and I love that I can make my own poison and bombs.  I think there should be some more armour options though.  I just don't feel "badass" in my Rogue gear.  I play on Xbox and the Dex bug has also severely limited my options when playing a rogue.  I also for the life of me cannot get into using a bow.  This may be a personal preferance but I just do not find it "fun".   Some faster animations would be nice as well.  A flury of quick stabs or a something acrobatic perhaps.
[*]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Again, the Dex Bug has underpowered some of my builds.  It seems that NPC rogues don't backstab automatically near enough.  Not a problem if my main is a rogue but very annoying if one of my team mates is.  The ability to load up a ton of different poisons on one blade is a bit overpowered but is not specifically related to Rogue and is actually realistic so it doesn't bother me.
[*]What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Favorite is Assassin easily.  Least is Ranger.  The fact that the entire party can only have one "pet" severely limits the use of Ranger.
[*]What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
[*]Favorite is the Dirty Fighting tree except for Feign Death.  Never once found a good use for it.  Least favorite is Stealth.  Just a personal preferance.
[/list]

Modifié par Drayvenn, 31 janvier 2010 - 10:55 .

[LolaRuns]

I both loved and loathed that you pretty much have to take a Rogue along for lockpicking and trap disarming. On one hand it drove me crazy when I started playing on the other hand it forced you to be more creative. I think it's a valid "obstacle" so to speak.

[eastoreispos]

Need to have backstab attacks from ranged weapons.

[Realmzmaster]

The only thing I dislike about the rogue is feign death at the fourth tier.

Rogue is the most balanced class in the game.

My favorite specialization is Ranger. I play on the PC so the ability to have a seven member party is fun. The other specilaztions are good. I can use either in conjunction with ranger.

Favorite talent trees is Stealth and Deft Hands. Traps are only good if you can set them up in advance and draw the enemy to them.

[Draelorn]

When considering ideas for new class trees, I'd like to see the Ranger reassigned. Rogues are great, but Rangers don't make a very good Rogue sub-class. While I understand that DA is not confining itself to fantasy conventions, the Ranger is a wandering, outdoorsy character with applicable survival skills based on hunting, nature magic, herbs and animal companions.

If there was a new nature based class including the Ranger and their lore, it would be a great way to introduce the Druid too, since that is a class people love. An idea would be to make the Ranger to the Druid class what the Archane Warrior is to the Mage class.

By definition, Rangers wouldn't be good at things like picking pockets, locks or back-stabbing, as those are urban skills.

Modifié par Draelorn, 01 février 2010 - 01:11 .

[Realmzmaster]

@Draelorn,

Which definition are you talking about? First edition D & D defined ranger not as a protector of nature or wilderness, but rather the protector of the civilized and good in the wilderness and borderlands. So rangers should be good at locks, picking pockets and backstabbing to fight the enemies of the civilized people..

[Magister Lajciak]

I think you guys did a good job designing the rogue. That said, archery does seem like an underpowered talent tree for both rogues and warriors. Perhaps something like increasing the armor penetration of missile weapons (or perhaps including an archery talent [or talents] to do that just for rogues and warriors) would fix things.



A second issue is with open locks. Whereas I see the attraction of rogues having a unique ability in this regard, it does hamper gameplay somewhat. The best solution would be to make lockpicking a universal talent tree open to everybody with the stipulation that rogues would get a bonus to it. Of course, rogues would still retain a monopoly on disarming traps. Rogues would also need to be compensated for this by giving them a new talent tree just for them to replace the lockpicking one. Maybe something to do with disarming or perhaps something different that you consider appropriate.

[Draelorn]

Realmzmaster, while Rangers and Rogues may share some traits, they are philosophically at odds imo. It also satisfies the archers out there to have another option, if they were in a separate class tree. Lets' face it, Rangers are a very popular class and very fun to RP, but some of that fun is lost on the Rogue. Even if Rangers can pick locks, I think the Rogue would be better at it. From a purely role-playing perspective, thieving and back-stabbing are more roguish activities, and in the wilderness pocket-pickings would be slim indeed.

If they added a Druid class with a Ranger sub-class, the RP elements would be seamless, the Archers, and Casters out there would have more to tinker with, Druid fans would be appeased. They've already redefined Templars so doing the same with the Druid could make for some interesting Lore and new conflicts.

Modifié par Draelorn, 01 février 2010 - 07:21 .

[IckyLicks]

Likes
         I like that Rogues are the most versitile class in the game.  They can stealth, use items, steal, disarm, etc.  They are a very efficient class. 

Dislikes
       There isn't much I dislike because they are almost perfect.  I think the only thing I would like to see is a rogue that could specialize in 1 handed weapons or use hand-to-hand combat.  Rogues seem to be pigeon holed into using Duel Wielding or Bow and Arrow.  In essence, how would a rogue use a sword compared to a warrior?  Rogues should have specific rogue-type move sets.  For exampe, a Warrior should be more violent and aggressive with a weapon, causing a lot of knockdowns, taunts, and disruptions.  Rogues might be more swift and quick, so their moves might be faster with less damage. 

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

The class it self is a bit overpowered.  They can do anything and wear anything except cast a spell and use a shield. 

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

The rogue specializations, well all specializations, are too little compared to the base abilities they recieve.  I mean, If you choose a ranger, the ranger should have access to most of the ranged ability set.  The same with the duelist.  They should have access to most of the duel wield tree. And, the stealth ability tree should be owned by the asassination specialization.

My favorite so far is the assassination tree. but it's not that great.

The duelist is my least favorite because it feels incomplete or not worth it.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite

My favorite talent tree is the stealth because I like the option of hiding in the middle of combat. 

I don't have one

[MGeezer]

You know its funny, i read some of these posts and go, "Oh no! Please, devs don't take these people seriously! Ranger just a pet???? Stealth worthless???? Archery is worthless??? Please don't take these people seriously!!!!"



Spoilers follow:











OK just one fight with a rogue with master stealth, archery specialization, and ranger. Playing on nightmare, i screwed up a bit. Ended up facing Ceredan at full strength with PC and no one else.



Won because of all of these things some people consider worthless. Summoned animals to keep Ceredon busy. Used stealth to divert him back to my animals when he constantly turned back to PC. All damage was done with archery. This was cool and fun--I don't say it is the best or easiest way to win this battle--but it worked and was a lot of fun. So please, please, ignore all of the archery is worthless, ranger is worthless, stealth is worthless crowd!!!

[IckyLicks]

I'm sorry I wanted to explain one of my answers I posted:

"What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least
favorite?

The rogue specializations, well all specializations, are too
little compared to the base abilities they recieve.  I mean, If you choose a
ranger, the ranger should have access to most of the ranged ability set.  The
same with the duelist.  They should have access to most of the duel wield
tree. And, the stealth ability tree should be owned by the asassination
specialization."

What I meant by this was that each specialization only comes with 5-6 abilities and I think that is a little low.  My least favorite about any specialization is that they need some real abilities that come with like 9 or 10.  Each specialization should be as specialized as the class it self.  For example, the rogue has all these choices that does not "feel" rogue-ish.  Take for instance, the archery talent tree or the Duelwielding talent tree.  I believe these specific trees should be part of the specializations instead of the whole class.  I don't think rogues in general should recieve specific fighting abilities up front because they are not fighters, they asassinate, trick, distract, sneak, steal, disarm, or backstab.  If a rogue gets specific ranged or melee abilities it should be part of that specialization.

I also think the "Ranger" specialization should be renamed to something that resembles a sniper or something because a "Ranger" already has a place in fantasy lore.  A rogue is typically a Narcisist and summoning an animal seems un-rogue-ish. 

I think a "Sniper" type rogue class might fit more since they are out for the kill.  They could inherent some ranger abilities like "Shattering Shot" or "Critical Shot."

Maybe you could place the "Ranger" in the Mage class since Rangers have a history of doing magical things to their arrows? 

[draxynnus]

"Worthless" is inaccurate. "Underpowered" is a better term - I don't think anyone really wants them removed, but at the moment there is a perception that archery is less powerful than melee options - and in my experience, that perception seems to be right, especially at the low-mid levels.



I don't think anyone wants it to be removed, but to be improved so that it's more in line with melee and magic options.



Pets... most of the criticism about pets has been more to do with them being fiddly to use rather than "worthless". They need to 1) survive across zone transitions, and 2) they need to get rid of the current system where to get the most out of your pet requires resetting the tactics every time you summon one, immediately after you summon it. This could be resolved in a manner that is strictly speaking a nerf (making it so they actually DO only have the skills that can be manually activated, rather than having a full set of skills that can be activated by tactics if you don't miss the opportunity) but, one way or the other, it needs to be resolved.

[Perseus the Paladin]

My first character was a Rogue (Duelist / Assassin). Strangly I never enabled any of the Assassin Talents. Most used Talents were the maxed Deft Hands and Stealth sets. When in combat, Dirty Fighting, Below the Belt and all of Sets 1 & 3 of Dual Weapons were used. In the later game all the Dualist sets were selected and employed.



I thoroughly enjoyed working with Zevran and going into the enemy camps under stealth to clear out all the traps. We then crippled or assassinated the boss characters and reentered stealth to escape - excellent fun. The warrior and mage then came in to clear away the stragglers.



I cannot imagine how the Warrior characters manage without being able to open locks and dismantle traps