375 réponses à ce sujet

[Evan748]

Only problem i have with rogue is that there is no cool looking unique set to aim for, stats wise there is but looks wise nope.

[elearon1]

I was just playing through again and I recall one of my biggest complaints - if you are stealthing about and you sneak past your foes rather than kill them, you can't transition to a new area until they are all dead. This does not seem to make much sense for a rogue or a stealth based party ... these are the people who should be able to get around obstacles without fighting! Otherwise you are forcing combat on a class which should be avoiding it when they can.



Okay, second issue ... you can't pick a pocket without becoming visible ... seems kind of silly, considering you're being unnoticeable in order to pick the pocket to begin with. Also, what if I want to sneak about a battlefield and pick the enemies' pockets before we fight? Or pick their pockets and move on without fighting? Again, as a thiefly sort this should be a no brainer - but the game doesn't allow you to get away with it.



You're not getting kill xp in these cases, so it isn't as though you're cheating the game by doing this ... you're merely playing to the character's strengths.

[Strykzilla]

I don't know if this counts but please ffs make Daveth able to pick a lock since he is a rogue. Sorry if it's been mentioned I'm lazy.

[alickar]

what i dont like about rouge is armor is not really protective

[Oronduil]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
The lack of interesting armour. There is like 3 different looks for leather armour. Only the shade changes. Even unique suits like the drake scale armour looks exactly the same. And leather helms are even worse! Having my rogue look like he's wearing a cap with ear flaps got old real quick!



Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
I haven't had the chance to play a rogue since the dexterity damage fix so I can't really comment on this


What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Favourite spec: Ranger. The pets did add a nice element to combat.

Least favourite: None really but probably the Bard.


What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Favourite talent tree: Archery. A bit underpowered until you get Master archer but very nice.

Least favourite: If I had to choose, probably the generic rogue skills. Some just seem pretty useless or at least not useful at the expense of other talents.

[Aeleksandr]

I'm kinda on the other end, I love rogues but the fact that haste + rapid aim actually hurts firing time (yes, its been confirmed that it gets slower, not faster) hoses any hopes for a Legolas style speed archer.



Basically I wish there wasn't a hardcoded limit on aim/firing speed so there could be some variety in archer builds.

[VeeJayNaSsassin]

a duel wielding rouge, as a duelist combined w/ an assasiin or a bard skill, while a mage keeps haste on ur group is by far the greatest dps ive expeirienced in the game, and ive played through about 6 to 7 times now. aside from casting a perfect storm w/ a mage but if ur playing with friendly fire on, thats more disasterous then beneficial imo.



i usually equip my rouge w/ dragonebone chainmail, but thats just cuase theres nothing else out there for a rouge to wear armor wise that looks anything like what the warriors get in their heavy plate. (ex: blood dragon, effort and duty(so far my fav armor looks wise, juggernaught, and w/ RTO out now, the warriors again get more plate in Cailens armor.) so yeah, for me as a rouge the biggest flaw in the game is the total lack of creativity w/ the armor.

[todesgotte]

I'd like to see many more bows available in the game. I can't remember if bows are enchantable or not but if not, they should be.



Stealling should tell you what you stole, not that you did or not and there should be consequence to getting caught.



Special arrows shouldn't cost so much



Duelist was less than useful.



Assassin I couldn't unlock it.



Ranger was ok but not terribly useful. I hate having to recast pets through transitional areas too.



Bard was also less than useful.



Dual weapon fighting seems to be the only way to go with a rogue with either a str or cun build and enough dex for skills and ac.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The inability to backstab with a bow was kind of annoying. At short range, that should totally work.

[Addai]

Probably it's all been said multiple times, but my take:  I love the rogue class.  I haven't played a warrior for a melee character since I figured out that the rogue class was not at all a "wimpy" fighter.  I appreciate the versatility, the variety of fighting styles you can use.  It's just fun.

I prefer Ranger and Duelist, because I like skills that are active versus passive.  Like to feel my PC has a bag of tricks up her sleeve.  I also like to play my rogues like a warrior and Duelist made my attack much more effective.  I just get a kick out of seeing my character execute defensive moves, too.  Ranger, because I like the animals  and found them very hardy.  Nice RP-wise for my Dalish character.

I add my voice to the chorus lamenting that there is no special set of rogue armor that you can get as a quest reward, and even the purchased stuff has "meh" bonuses except for very expensive things like Felon's Coat.  So I end up with lots of pretty heavy armor sitting in the party chest unused, and  I could dress my warriors up nicely for the final battle etc. but my character was still wearing her same-old same-old.  I do appreciate the special daggers added by the DLCs like Dead Thaig Shanker, Olaf's Cheese Knife etc.

[JasonMez]

I thought the rogue class was fun to play. Second to a mage.



For a future release I'd like to see the rogue skills be more useful in combat. For example, being able to turn enemy traps around in your favor if you're hidden and maybe know the trap. When I was playing RTO and scouting ahead I came to the ambush point with all the ballistas. A "sabotage" skill would have been awesome there.



I think the Ranger spec was underpowered. The only time I used it was when I role played as a Dalish and even then it was so-so.

The Assassin spec was my favorite since I duel-wield my rogues and their backstab damage was great.



A nice addition would be to include unique poison recipes and trap plans for those specializations. Even increasing the number of "only usable by" gear for specializations would be great; maybe unique side quests for your specialization choice would work to increase gameplay depth too. Anything to make it feel like we're not just building a character from a menu is a HUGE step in the right direction imo. It would have been awesome if the only way to gain a specialization was to make a choice that could exclude another. Like, working for the Crows would gain the assassin spec, but Lilianna would disapprove (or something) and that would throw Bard out and vice-versa.

[catelee2u]

I didn't read the question properly.



Favs in order: Assassin, Bard, Ranger, Duellist



Thats how I see it...take it for what it is.

[Theinen83]

Okay, I know a lot of this has been said already, but after I played a rogue like a rogue, as opposed to a paper thin warrior, I found it pretty fun.

Favorite Specialization: Assassin/Bard
Assassin  is obvious for the added damage, and bard helps my warriors and mages with mana/stamina. By the time I get Song of Courage, mage has mass rejuvenation and knows how to make lyrium pots.

Least Favorite: Ranger
I'm not used to the traditional ranger, I admit. Final Fantasy had me thinking rangers are killers with bows, not excellent trackers and nature buffs. But the pets often times became more of a problem than an asset. As far as I know, there are no mods for the PS3 at all, and in any case, if I modded everything, then I'm not really enjoying the game, which defeats the point of this thread and others like it.


Overall, I liked the rogue class. I've yet to try duelist, maybe on the next play through. But once I stopped trying to be a quick warrior and be a rogue, I saw all that it had to offer. I have no complaints about crow control. They're rogues. In any game, I've never known any rogue, thief or assassin type to be an expert at controlling crowds other than if they have ample time to set up the battle field with traps first. So that fits. Things that I would like changed or added?

Tactic behavior. There's a tactic for archer, and even on dog, one for war dog. We have all these tactics for different builds, why not a "sneaky" behavior. You know, one that makes the rogue try to attack from behind at every attempt? If the target is engaged with the warrior or something, run behind them. Use dirty fighting and run behind them. I just found it slightly annoying that, until I got coup de grace and daggers with grandmaster paralyzing runes, that I couldn't fully enjoy playing my character because I had to always switch to the rogue to optimize their usefulness. That's the tactics are supposed to help with.

More rogue like items would be nice. Cloaks, more accessories like the shadow belt, things like that. Gear wise, if you're not a warrior or arcane warrior, you're getting shafted.

A different  dual wielding tree than the warriors. This is a big thing for me, and added to why I made the mistake of trying to play my rogue as a warrior. Why is there such a high strength requirement for the dual wield tree? I generally don't even get to 20 with str. I give the +2 to all stat items to my rogue just to put on wade's drakeskin and then that's it. There should be a second type of dual wield tree. It could be based off of cunning and dex instead of forcing the rogue to take strength when other classes don't have to take their "dump stats" to do what they were supposed to do. Could be something like this:

Nimble hands: typical dual wield, slight increase in chance for critical strike
Expert Nimble hands: has % chance to lower armor ranking of target
Master Nimble hands: rogue now has a chance to immediately counterattack if the target missed a melee attack
Grandmaster Nimble Hands: rogue now has a chance to attack twice with each weapon

Then for the active abilities, they can have an attack that allows you to hit for massive damage and generates equally massive threat, but if you used the attack while under stealth, that threat is given instead to the closest party member. So if you do it near Shale or Alistar, everything is cool, they can tank just that much better. Buuuut, if Wynne just happens to be behind the monster.... Ruh-Roh Raggy.

Or some other similar abilities. I don't know about anyone else, but I found the bleeding abilities to be sorely lacking. The only things that lived long enough for those to kick in were immune to bleed damage (bosses, revenants, golems) so it still didn't matter. Everything else dropped like a bad habit before it could be triggered.

And last, but not least, the ranger specialization. Could it just be one summoned pet, that stayed with you during transitions? It could just be the wolf (since that's the one shapeshifters can't become) and each afterwards grants you a new form of wolf. Or, just give it massive traits to make it more useful. Like if the rogue, no other member, just the rogue, is being attacked, the pet automatically uses taunt. That gives the rogue more survival as well as more chances for getting behind the enemy for some good stabby-stab. Or, better yet, get rid of ranger and use the above "nimble hands" tree to create a new specialization. That works too.

[Taitas]

Pretty much everything I want changed/added has already been mentioned in this thread at some point. However, a few things I didn’t see listed and would like added to the game are:



1. Better stealth graphic. I want a dark, shadowy and translucent stealth graphic as opposed to the current “wrapped in fog” graphic. 


2. I want stealth to stop breaking when I successfully steal from someone. Having to run around while waiting for the stealth cooldown just so I can avoid killing marks is a little silly.


3. Please add unique finishing move animation for single wielded weapons (daggers). My rogue only wields a single dagger (and a bow). It’s a little weird watching him execute dual-weapon finishing moves without a second weapon. Even if I put a small shield in his offhand it looks strange.


4. Did someone mention they’d like a mini-game for lockpicking and disarming traps? I want this. 


5. There needs to be more stun moves for rogues who single wield.


6. Too many of the different poisons do exactly the same thing. Damage with a chance of stun/slowed movement. I do like Quiet Death though... very very much.


7. Can we please have capes and cloaks with and without hoods? 

Thanks.

Modifié par Taitas, 05 février 2010 - 01:08 .

[.Raven.rpg]

You know,I think you guys promised a mage feedback

[Addai]

I'm not sure why people think archery is underpowered. I paid attention on my cunning-based rogue and she was getting as much damage- wielding Mage's Eye with no special arrows, active archery talents or ranged buffs- as she does with her daggers.



And please, please, no minigame for unlocking! At least make it optional if you invest skill or talent points! I hate those things.

[Tolkiens Padawan]

I liked:

The roque overall and how rogues differed (my PC vs Leliana vs Zevran).



Dislikes and Requests:

-I was able to hide and get through an area without being noticed by enemies, but then, I couldn't cross to the next area, I had to go back and kill everyone. And - as I had met all the enemies yet - I couldn't even save before finishing with everyone in the area. That is okay if you are with your group and the others are still at the entry of the area, but there are areas where noone supports you and it's just unlogical and frustrating if you cannot use your ability as a rogue to avoid combat - if those enemies are no important ones. Please change this for future releases. As an addition, I'd love to get experience for avoiding fights (take Vampire Bloodlines as a reference here).

-I would have liked it to have (and be able to make) potions that increased my chance to open a lock or disable a trap temporarily. You know that type of rogue-potion that you can find in any game other than Dragon Age ;-) But that is far less important than the above.



Specializations:

I've played as a duelist and ranger and was quite happy with that.

Leliana always seemed quite weak as a bard, much more than Zevran as assassin. The problem is, it's hard to notice how much the bard songs help your group. At least I couldn't see their effects. I like the interpretation of the Orlaisian bard in DA, but it sounds like it could be more than a singing rogue. Would be nice to see that talent tree expanded.

I like the extra companion that you get as a ranger. Not important? Well I think it is, especially when you are alone (otherwise) or if there is a hard enemy and every attack of that enemy against a not-so-important-groupmember is worth a lot. What I don't like about the ranger is that he can summon the same creatures everywhere. It would be more interesting and logical if that wasn't a true spell - which it seems to be at the moment - but if the ranger could get help by the creatures that roam that region, so you would get a quite different animal in the deep roads than on top of the mountains. You would maybe get more help in the forests and non in a tower. In a city a rat could help you and every rat could have the talent to call for another rat. Would be nice. No constant strength though, but if the specialization-description already tells you that it won't be, that would just make it interesting.

[xikux]

1. Rogue is my favorite class, there's nothing I dislike about it, except for the armors.
Many people have already said that there should be unique and different rogue armor. Warriors have lots of different looking armor, but mages and rogues don't. Though hardened leather armor still looks cool compared to dalish armor.

3. I haven't finished the game yet, so I don't really know very much about specializations. I've only unlocked duellist for my rogue and I was going to get ranger next.

4. The only one I don't like is stealth... it's only useful for ambushes and different tactics, and it's stupid that you can't completely sneak past your enemies and you have to come back and kill them.

[NetBeansAndJava]

# What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

Like: Tools, tools, tools! Rogues have so many tricks, it's great! (just shy of mages)

Dislike: Lack of good gear. Don't get me wrong, there's some really nice gear for rogues, but compared to warriors, rogues and mages both don't have as many options.





# Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Underpowered: We shouldn't be forced to invest 4 pts into lockpicking. Maybe 2, but 4 is too much to ask.

Overpowered: I hear stealth can be abused w/ items. Haven't tried it myself b/c I'm cheap and don't want to use bombs.



# What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

Favorite: Duelist. Great bonuses make a more effective rogue.

Least favorite: Bard. All the songs needs some buffs. Either make them scale better with cunning or boost the base effect. Many bard songs are just too minor to be of use when compared to the other options rogues have.



# What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Favorite: Anything that boosts backstab effectiveness. Coup de Grace is very, very good. Especially b/c freezing counts as paralysis.

Least Favorite: Lockpicking. As stated before, 4 pts is a lot to devote to lockpicking. It makes having the optimal rogue avoid lockpicking and then have one of the other rogues pick it for the sole purpose of running through an already finished zone to unlock all the chests you left behind. It's very silly and not fun at all. Better to just have lockpicking be automatically a rogue skill and have it scale w/ the player level and/or cunning.

[Alanon555]

#Is there any way to change the original dagger. For some reason everytime I try the game will not let me. The same problem with rings.

[fro7k]

Not a concern about Rogue's per-se, but what other characters have that are rogue-like: the ability to steal!



I sort-of actually like this in the sense of needing it; I have a compulsion to pick-pocket everything (game has finite resources; wish there were spawns in this game!), and having stealing on all characters makes this easier, at the expense of slots. I'd much rather have stealing rogue only but simultaneously lower or outright remove the cooldown on it. It doesn't really make the game more fun.

[fro7k]

As an addition, I'd love to get experience for avoiding fights (take Vampire Bloodlines as a reference here).

You mean stealthing past them, or resolving conflicts peacefully? I thought the latter was a MAJOR lapse in Dragon Age. When BG2 came out they made a specific point of making sure peaceful ways of solving problems were rewarded more highly than they were in BG1. Yet in Dragon Age they regressed on that and almost never reward peaceful options (e.g. the duel in Denerim, the riddles in Sacred Ashes--you get NOTHING for doing this the "right" way, and it costs you valuable coercion slots in some cases).

[ServiTemplari]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

 - Likes

• I like the stealth system.  The movement speed is a hindrance but not too great a one, and stealthed buddies always manage to keep up (though they lag behind non-stealthers)
• I like their utility.  The vast majority of the skills are best wielded by Rogues, and (for better or worse) I think it's that utility that most distinguishs them, and provides the move value to them, over another warrior or mage.
• I might like their damage ability, but it's so hard to judge.  On the character sheet, I appreciate that there's what I think is a DPS stat, but it doesn't update when you turn on/off sustained talents, etc. so I really don't know how accurate it is.  Without an accurate DPS stat in-game that updates based on everything you can do to your toon that might affect attack damage or speed, I really have no idea how good the damage is for a Rogue.

 - Dislikes

• I don't like the the lock and trap system.  DAO has pretty terrible tooltips.  They're agrivatingly vague.  It's impossible to get a clear understanding about how trap detection works, and what increases your chance to detect them and disarm them, without digging around in the code.  I wish there were just 4 levels of locks and 4 levels of traps and if you have Traps level 1 you can spot and disarm level 1 traps.  I'd prefer no role for Cunning in this, except maybe to unlock each Trap skill.  Also, you should emulate the tooltip mods and really expand the tooltips to give clear explanations about what things do. 
• I HATE the fact that the vanilla AI doesn't automatically send Rogues into flanking position.  THANK GOD I got the PC version and found the Advanced Tactics mod.  I stopped playing DAO within a month of release because of problems like this.  The Advanced Tactics mod (as well as the Combat Tweaks mod) have so much content that you really should have included in the base game because their absence was very noticable with Rogues.
• I think Rogues need more Skill points (I know they already get more than Warriors and Mages) because biggest advantage is utility, but that utility requires a stat (Cunning) that's otherwise (or should otherwise be) useless.  If the PC plays a Rogue, they're looking at Coercion (because only the PC can get this, and it's Cunning-based), Stealing (works in tandem with Stealth and is Cunning-based), Trap-Making (it makes sense for a stealthed rogue to scout ahead, detect, and disarm traps and it requires Cunning), Survival (associated with scouting, a core "rogue" activity and Cunning-based), Poison-Making (another core Rogue thing, especially given the leaning towards assassins), Combat Trainng (they can't JUST be utility boxes), and Combat Tactics (to help automate things the vanilla AI should already do but doesn't).  In short, a Rogue feels inclined to learn 7 of 8 skills, but won't have anywhere near the skill points to do so.
• I don't know if dagger damage is properly calculated yet, but I think it is.
• I'm pretty sure bow damage still isn't working correctly, which heavily nerfs the ranged combat style I prefer for my rogues. 
• If Cunning is going to be so important to Rogues, and Strength so much less important, then Lethality should be a Tier 1 talent instead of Tier 3. 

Is there anything that you feel is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

 - Underpowered

• Without a reliable DPS stat in-game, I can't say anything about their damage ability. 
• Their reliance on Cunning gimps them.  Rogues' biggest value comes from their utility, which has a lot to do with Skills, which are heavily reliant on Cunning, but you have to spend 3 Talent points to get Cunning to replace Strength in the damage calculations. 
• The (IMO) poor vanilla AI meant that Rogues required a ton of micromanagement.  The vanilla Tactics system was pretty useless too.  Without the improvements made by the Advanced Tactics and Combat Tweaks mods, I'd find Rogues pretty useless. 

 - Overpowered

• Without a reliable DPS stat in-game, I can't say anything about their damage ability. 
• I don't think Rogues are OP.  I think they're the hybrid/utility/oddball class that requires the most effort to find a niche and fill it well.  Warriors exist to soak up damage.  Mages exist to practically everything else (DPS, healing, buffing, CC...).  If Mages could pop locks and traps, there'd really be no need for Rogues.  It would purely be roleplaying at that point.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations?  What are your least favorite?

• Ranger (I favor ranged Rogues, and every shooter could use a meat shield)
• Bard
• Assassin / Duelist (tie)

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

 - Favorite

• Stealth (it works as advertised and each of the 4 levels adds enough utility to make it worth it)

 - Least Favorite

• Deft Hands (I think lock picking and trap disarming are important, I just don't like how you've implimented those systems)
• Dirty Fighting (the first two talents are okay, but the last two are bleh)
• Below the Belt (the last two talents are good, Lethality's a must, but the first two are bleh)

 

[Whiplash56]

Victor Wachter wrote...

And now it's the Rogue's turn. As we continue to plan for the future of the Dragon Age franchise, we're interested in hearing your feedback regarding the different classes.
fa
In this thread, we'd like to ask your opinions of the Rogue class. You can still comment in last week's Warrior topic. Next week's topic will cover the Mage.

• What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
  
  
• Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
  
  
• What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
  
  
• What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Be sure to answer the poll on Rogue specializations as well!

1. Stealth, picking locks for extra loot, disarming and spotting traps, killing people really really fast, extra cunning dialogue options since you add to that attribute more as a rogue. Great utility class.

2. Overpowerered - backstabbing, it's always a guaranteed hit (regardless of attack rating) and always a critical hit, plus the +30% critictal strike/backstab damage bonuses on some weapons really makes backstabs hit too hard IMO, as a 25 rogue who was backstab spec'ed towards the end of the game I was doing around 110-135 damage a pop with EACH weapon, and that's just daggers too, not swords. That's as much a two-hander, maybe even more, at a much faster attack speed and with 2 weapons. Takes like 2-3 backstabs at most to kill anything on Normal Difficulty. Couple this with the fact you can backstab any stunned/paralyze target from any angle with the rogue talent and it's pretty much unstoppable, especially if you're weapons are all enchanted with paralyze runes.
     Underpowered - Archery, the abilities in the archery tree either do too little damage, are sustained modes, or just abilities that do secondary effects with very little firepower. The only exception is Arrow of Slaying which actually does some damage or Scattershot, which is a great ability, untill you encounter multiple archers all chain spamming that (like that one part in Arl Howe's Estate where "C" tries to A_____ you, there are like a crapton of archers there and they rip you up in a matter of 4 seconds flat by the 10x scattershots that follow one after another (Trying not to spoil it)) then it just becomes ridiculous. Bows could use a little more damage and crit chance is far too low even with a 5% crit helmet and 2% crit belt you can barely obtain 10% ranged crit with the best bow (not including Bard song buff or any other crit buffs besides from your own gear), might as well make Rapid Aim permanently on since you won't crit anyway. Of course this applies to warriors too.

3. Assassin specialization, Mark of Death very useful for all rogue builds, the other 3 abilities only help if you're melee backstab build and not archery. Followed by duelist as a close second for melee rogue builds. Least favorite was easily Ranger, those summons are not very helpful IMO and a waste of talent points. Bard was a good choice for a support build.

4. Dual-wielding was my favorite talent tree by far, using all the melee abilities to slice and dice was real fun. Archery least favorite by far for reasons stated above.

Modifié par Dat, 03 mars 2010 - 04:36 .

[Dash Dylan]

• What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
  
• Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
  
• What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
  
• What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

I  enjoyed Rouge in it general size and overall usefulness it was never difficult to use. My least favorive thing was probably its low overall health but I knew it was a risk going in.
[*]N/A
[*]My favorite specialization was defaintely Ranger eventhough it really was a stand-alone specialization and nothing could really complement it well. My least favorite was Bard overall it just didn't seem all that useful.
[*]The rouge talent  was the most overall useful and do to this it kind of made the dual weapon tree the best to use I personal liked archery better though.