A: I don't like how if your PC is NOT a rogue, there are chests in the Arl of Redcliff's Home in Denerim which you are not able to get open and that there are unique items in them. Perhaps this is a minor programming error that makes it so you can't enter with a group that contains a rogue, but nonetheless, if the PC is not a rogue, you can't get anything from the chests. While it is good to have unique abilities to each class, making certain aspects of the game unobtainable when your main character is not of a certain class seems......extreme? Underpowered would be the rogue's lack of actual fighting talents. While it's nice to be able to duel wield, what if you want a shield using rogue? Those talents are cut off. How about expanding the abilities of rogues to use other fighting abilities other than duel. If this is simply to make the warrior class different by giving them more fighting range, I would suggest something else to give the warrior class difference. The specializations. Well I think that depending on how you build your rogue some specializations will be utterly pointless. Although from my own experiences, I've found Bard and Assassin pretty useless. Dueler/Ranger worked best I felt. The ability to summon a 5th party member to help out was a more desirable trait then to have a better backstab. Because let's face it, in the middle of the horde, are you trying to run around behind one of them? I doubt it.
Dev Question: Rogue class Feedback
Débuté par
Victor Wachter
, janv. 22 2010 12:46
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#152
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 01:42
Zabaniya
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JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...
A: I don't like how if your PC is NOT a rogue, there are chests in the Arl of Redcliff's Home in Denerim which you are not able to get open and that there are unique items in them. Perhaps this is a minor programming error that makes it so you can't enter with a group that contains a rogue, but nonetheless, if the PC is not a rogue, you can't get anything from the chests. While it is good to have unique abilities to each class, making certain aspects of the game unobtainable when your main character is not of a certain class seems......extreme? Underpowered would be the rogue's lack of actual fighting talents. While it's nice to be able to duel wield, what if you want a shield using rogue? Those talents are cut off. How about expanding the abilities of rogues to use other fighting abilities other than duel. If this is simply to make the warrior class different by giving them more fighting range, I would suggest something else to give the warrior class difference. The specializations. Well I think that depending on how you build your rogue some specializations will be utterly pointless. Although from my own experiences, I've found Bard and Assassin pretty useless. Dueler/Ranger worked best I felt. The ability to summon a 5th party member to help out was a more desirable trait then to have a better backstab. Because let's face it, in the middle of the horde, are you trying to run around behind one of them? I doubt it.
Bolded part:
-Have a tank grab the aggro.
-Mage use spells like Paralyze/Mass Paralysis.
-Go into Stealth
-Dirty Fighting/Riposte.
-Using poisons like Concentrated Deathroot/Quiet Death
-Runes like the Paralysis runes.
I mean, you're entitled to your own opinion and I understand that but there are definitely ways to get around having to constantly flank them, so writing specializations focusing on backstabs like Assassins off as useless is a bit... harsh.
Modifié par Zabaniya, 23 janvier 2010 - 01:42 .
#153
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:34
Dasher10
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allow for a single sword/dagger talent tree for warriors and rouges.
#154
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 03:26
Adynata
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I loved my A/R Rogue, but I would prefer if the ranger pet didn't despawn when you change areas
#155
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 03:32
r_tues
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Victor Wachter wrote...
- What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
- Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
- What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
- What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
I love playing the Rogue. So much so that even when I played the main character as a warrior, I often used Zevran or Leliana as the actively-controlled character.
Best things:
- Versatility: the ability to create different Rogue characters with completely different skill sets--you can be a thug, or a ninja, or a ranger, or whatever
- Using tricks & cleverness (i.e. traps, stealth, poison, bombs) to get through combat, instead of just hitting things with my sword, or setting them on fire
- two-weapon fighting. Especially good because you can equip twice as many runes.
- the "crime" missions in Denerim.
Worst things:
- The complete lack of cool-looking light armor. I want my main character to look awesome, not drab. Even Wade's fabulous Drake Scale armor looked boring! Also, except for Studded Leather, the light armors have a disturbing lack of pants. (And don't get me started on the ridiculousness of the female Dalish armor.)
- Stealing. Maybe I was pick-pocketing the wrong people, but I never got anything interesting from it--just a few silvers or coppers, which weren't really worth the effort.
Specializations:
I think Duelist is the most generally useful (and it definitely has the best unlocking bit), but in terms of most fun, I liked Ranger best. Summoning a bear into combat was never non-entertaining. My least favorite was Bard, because it's largely passive. It's fine for a support character like Leliana, but I wouldn't want to use it on my protagonist.
Talents:
Best: Stealth, and the first 3 squares of the "dirty-fighting -> combat movement -> coup de grace -> feign death" sequence. The first three are all kick-ass combat assists, but I never had any use for feigning death. If I wanted the enemies to leave me alone, Level 4 stealth was usually sufficient.
Worst: I think they are all fine, and useful, depending on what type of Rogue I am playing. No complaints!
#156
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 04:58
akhom
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The thing, I like of playing Rogue: It is the only class that take care a job that another class can't like open a locked chest, plant, remove and detected trap ... etc so every party of mine must always include one rogue. Combat, with dual-wield is awesome so everyone known that well how fast they kill opponent. About the Archer, it is different tactics as to be ranged attack supporter.
The thing I don't like: Nothing except their armor that not variety but not for daggers, I bought some cool daggers - Great!!!
Underpowered - No. Overpowered - Yes, certainly with their talent like Stealth, Back-stab, poison or whatever that use the trick to kill enemy and especially with stealth - you can back-stab to kill some then you got hurt, you hide in stealth drink some potion.
Like I voted, I love both of Assassin and Duelist because its talents boost damage for back-stab and make rogue harder to hit. I can't say that i love all of spec. but Ranger and Bard is useful too. Ranger have a pet that Blood magic mage sometimes suck its blood or use as a additional tank.
Talents, I love Stealth and necessary skill is Device Mastery because this game force Rogue to be the only class to open the locked chest. And not forget Lethality, Dirty Fighting, Combat movement and Evasion is cool too but Feign Death is not an option so I don't choose it due to I prefer use stealth to evade the crisis situation and it seems to be a coward to me. hehe.
Ps. Eager for Mages.
The thing I don't like: Nothing except their armor that not variety but not for daggers, I bought some cool daggers - Great!!!
Underpowered - No. Overpowered - Yes, certainly with their talent like Stealth, Back-stab, poison or whatever that use the trick to kill enemy and especially with stealth - you can back-stab to kill some then you got hurt, you hide in stealth drink some potion.
Like I voted, I love both of Assassin and Duelist because its talents boost damage for back-stab and make rogue harder to hit. I can't say that i love all of spec. but Ranger and Bard is useful too. Ranger have a pet that Blood magic mage sometimes suck its blood or use as a additional tank.
Talents, I love Stealth and necessary skill is Device Mastery because this game force Rogue to be the only class to open the locked chest. And not forget Lethality, Dirty Fighting, Combat movement and Evasion is cool too but Feign Death is not an option so I don't choose it due to I prefer use stealth to evade the crisis situation and it seems to be a coward to me. hehe.
Ps. Eager for Mages.
#157
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 05:25
FieryDove
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I would have to say a rogue archer is very underpowered. The special shots take way too long to fire and the mob(s) are many times already on you by the time they go off/or get interrupted. No fun! Adding another talent to lower cooldown/stamina costs would be welcome as well.
Also my master archers get interrupted way more than any of my mages ever did. (And my mages didn't have combat training)
Need an unlimited arrow vendor also, not that +2 fire/cold/etc damage is anything that great and the cost of them, really? If they were +10 damage then maybe I could see paying 6+ gold for a stack of 20. (or was it 40?) Doesn't matter it's too much as-is.
Would love more armor choices, please! The ancient elven armor is my favorite for *looks* but it really should get downgraded to light armor since it offers less protection than tier 5?, 6 and 7 light armor. On my female characters all the light armor shows boney collarbones.
That's the main reason I wear the elven armor, as I have no other option to avoid that unless I go heavier armor and I'd rather not, the stamina drain + hostility would be an issue.
I like the ranger class, the summons once upgraded are a big help. Finally someone made some summons worthwhile, thank you!
I like the idea of the bard class, some of the talents are useful but the yelling is a bit...much. lol (Some voice-sets are nicer on that regard)
My favorite spec as-is stands at the duel wielder ranger/bard. Although I still play archers/DW combos mostly. Yes I'm stubborn but I love my bows!
Also my master archers get interrupted way more than any of my mages ever did. (And my mages didn't have combat training)
Need an unlimited arrow vendor also, not that +2 fire/cold/etc damage is anything that great and the cost of them, really? If they were +10 damage then maybe I could see paying 6+ gold for a stack of 20. (or was it 40?) Doesn't matter it's too much as-is.
Would love more armor choices, please! The ancient elven armor is my favorite for *looks* but it really should get downgraded to light armor since it offers less protection than tier 5?, 6 and 7 light armor. On my female characters all the light armor shows boney collarbones.
That's the main reason I wear the elven armor, as I have no other option to avoid that unless I go heavier armor and I'd rather not, the stamina drain + hostility would be an issue.
I like the ranger class, the summons once upgraded are a big help. Finally someone made some summons worthwhile, thank you!
I like the idea of the bard class, some of the talents are useful but the yelling is a bit...much. lol (Some voice-sets are nicer on that regard)
My favorite spec as-is stands at the duel wielder ranger/bard. Although I still play archers/DW combos mostly. Yes I'm stubborn but I love my bows!
#158
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 07:41
Smoogaboo
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1. I like the rogue class for its ability to do damage fast, and its skill in dialog.
2. Some things I feel need improvement for rogues are archery and stealing. Stealing should be usable in story dialog, and archery needs more active and more varied powers.
3. Other things that could be fixed for rogues is removing the strength reliance on light armor and changing it to dexterity as the required stat.
4. Overpowered for rogues would be rogues with high strength and a sword. Underpowered is definitely archery, it just really needs more abilities and more outright damage to compare with backstabbing rogues.
5. My favorite specialization is duelist, for its ability to do damage in a roguelike way. My least favorite specialization is ranger, because I never really felt pets fit with most rogues. I feel the support abilities of the bard are very useful for the game, and tend to fit in as rogues.
2. Some things I feel need improvement for rogues are archery and stealing. Stealing should be usable in story dialog, and archery needs more active and more varied powers.
3. Other things that could be fixed for rogues is removing the strength reliance on light armor and changing it to dexterity as the required stat.
4. Overpowered for rogues would be rogues with high strength and a sword. Underpowered is definitely archery, it just really needs more abilities and more outright damage to compare with backstabbing rogues.
5. My favorite specialization is duelist, for its ability to do damage in a roguelike way. My least favorite specialization is ranger, because I never really felt pets fit with most rogues. I feel the support abilities of the bard are very useful for the game, and tend to fit in as rogues.
#159
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 09:20
Jester8183
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Victor Wachter wrote...
- What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
- Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
- What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
- What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
I like many have said the rogue is a versatile class. It is vary indulging to the melee rogue, which I like to play, and I can set my companion rogues to ranged/support. Being able to backstab and how rogue attributes can be seen more in dialog.
What i dislike about the rogue... I wouldn't mind a couple more options for a rogue as far as combat styles. Perhaps an unarmed fighting style or a single weapon style? And, agian as many have stated, a more varied assortment of rogue armors.
The armor factor being such a high factor for determining aggro made mobs pretty easy for my rogue to slip behind and flank. Perhaps a script that would allow enemies with high cunning to be able to realize the danger that a flanking rogue presents; and react accordingly.
Depending on the wheather I'm going for a melee or ranged rogue I find that I gravitate to the Duelist and the Ranger. The Duelist giving me a nice boost to my attack and defence while the Ranger calls in a 5 party member to deal some damage and claim some aggro. The Bard also has it place with the ranged rogue for some nice buffs. I never really got into the Assassin specialization and usually only took it for the +2 dexterity and +2.5 armor piercing.
Favorite talent trees would be the whole of the rogue tree, minus Feign Death, and Dual Wield. When I create a character I never go for Archer, it doesn't seem like it would be a particularly entertaining style.
#160
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 10:12
whiteraider
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What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
Don't like that non-pc rogues don't do a skill check before screaming 'I can do that!' when they blatantly can't open the lock that my PC rogue with higher cunning and more deft hands just failed on!
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
No
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Fav: Assasin, Duelist
Hated: Ranger, almost pointless, made worse by any summon (rogue or mage) dissappearing when you transition area, which happens way too often!
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Fav: So far none, I've not finished as a rogue yet but most or non-archery level 4 talents seem lackluster compared to the 3rd, Momentum being a very good example of this.
Least Fav: Dual Striking, normal non-critical damage seems counter to the whole point of a rogue!
Overall the rogue is a nice crowd-control and potentially very high damaging class but I'd like to see Deft Hands, Traps (for Rogue), and Stealing rationalised, and a new tree for single dagger and/or unarmed combat.
Also I would like better clothes, and benfits for not wearing armour at all, atm there are lots of nice armour designs for the warrior but mage and rogue seem less well catered for!
Don't like that non-pc rogues don't do a skill check before screaming 'I can do that!' when they blatantly can't open the lock that my PC rogue with higher cunning and more deft hands just failed on!
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
No
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Fav: Assasin, Duelist
Hated: Ranger, almost pointless, made worse by any summon (rogue or mage) dissappearing when you transition area, which happens way too often!
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Fav: So far none, I've not finished as a rogue yet but most or non-archery level 4 talents seem lackluster compared to the 3rd, Momentum being a very good example of this.
Least Fav: Dual Striking, normal non-critical damage seems counter to the whole point of a rogue!
Overall the rogue is a nice crowd-control and potentially very high damaging class but I'd like to see Deft Hands, Traps (for Rogue), and Stealing rationalised, and a new tree for single dagger and/or unarmed combat.
Also I would like better clothes, and benfits for not wearing armour at all, atm there are lots of nice armour designs for the warrior but mage and rogue seem less well catered for!
#161
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 10:50
draxynnus
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It's there - the City Elf who decides to turn their back on the city (and possibly join the Dalish), the Dwarf who finds they not only survive but thrive on the surface. Not every character needs to stick to their origins.Carodej wrote...
My main problem with Ranger is that from a role playing perspective, it only seems a natural choice if you play a Dalish Elf. A Noble Human could also pick Ranger without seeming too out of character, but for the other origins as well as your companions, it just seems "wrong." From a mechanics point of view, please fix it so the pet doesn't disappear in area transitions, and please make the tactics screen available at all times the pet is summoned.
I suspect that the game might not actually be able to tell if a particular arrow is going to be the killer until it lands. Mind you, they could implement a few special "killed by arrow" animations to be used occasionally instead of simply collapsing.IronCladNinja wrote...
The lack of variety in armor was slightly disappointing though, and from what I can tell there aren't any archery deathblows, those would be cool, slow motion drawing back the bowstring real far, a war cry or something, then releasing the arrow and watching it embed itself in a hurlock's nose, followed by the hurlock staggering forward, then collapsing.
#162
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 11:59
leana78
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My fav class in this game! I love to be a rogue.(I hope I make myself understood clearly as I am french)
I love stealing stuff, but I think it would be better to use stealth (invisible) coupled with steal to do it. Would be more logical. I always use both hands to fight with weapons. I 'm not into technics and I just discovered, while reading, It was better using only daggers? I used one dagger and one one-hand sword in the other hand...It worked very well too? I like the rapid pace of a rogue when fighting, I love back strike too.
Never created traps myself, but I like been able to disarm: But why does it take so long? as after a steal in pockets: we have to waiiiiittt to do it again: not realistic at all!
I was very happy when a mods came and got the stealing recuperation down.
I think ranger is useless, I think generally all stuff with animals were not good, useless,in this game: ranger for rogues and Morrigan shape-changing in beasts: Both not interesting: drop it or change it please!
I loved being invisible and go to disarm traps, check where are the ennemies and put my PC behind one and cut his throat at the start of the fight
great! Or throw them a bomb before the start of the fight!
One thing weird: To have Leliana beeing the thief (able to steal in pockets) though she's so religious, 'good' etc...Not her mentality!
I'd thouht a guy like Zevran would do that, not her! Not logical too...
I liked to be able to deal with poison too , as a rogue, it's normal: but why not putting poison on arrows too? And I really think rogues would deserve to be the best at shooting arrows!
They wear armors that allow it much easier than fighters with their huge armors? not logical too...
About that point: more nice looking and useful armors for our rogues please, and make helms invisible when on the main game, We all hate not to see who is who and not beeing able to watch our brothers in arms faces!
Thanks for the wonderful game Bioware!
I love stealing stuff, but I think it would be better to use stealth (invisible) coupled with steal to do it. Would be more logical. I always use both hands to fight with weapons. I 'm not into technics and I just discovered, while reading, It was better using only daggers? I used one dagger and one one-hand sword in the other hand...It worked very well too? I like the rapid pace of a rogue when fighting, I love back strike too.
Never created traps myself, but I like been able to disarm: But why does it take so long? as after a steal in pockets: we have to waiiiiittt to do it again: not realistic at all!
I was very happy when a mods came and got the stealing recuperation down.
I think ranger is useless, I think generally all stuff with animals were not good, useless,in this game: ranger for rogues and Morrigan shape-changing in beasts: Both not interesting: drop it or change it please!
I loved being invisible and go to disarm traps, check where are the ennemies and put my PC behind one and cut his throat at the start of the fight
great! Or throw them a bomb before the start of the fight!One thing weird: To have Leliana beeing the thief (able to steal in pockets) though she's so religious, 'good' etc...Not her mentality!
I'd thouht a guy like Zevran would do that, not her! Not logical too...
I liked to be able to deal with poison too , as a rogue, it's normal: but why not putting poison on arrows too? And I really think rogues would deserve to be the best at shooting arrows!
They wear armors that allow it much easier than fighters with their huge armors? not logical too...
About that point: more nice looking and useful armors for our rogues please, and make helms invisible when on the main game, We all hate not to see who is who and not beeing able to watch our brothers in arms faces!
Thanks for the wonderful game Bioware!
#163
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 12:12
meister245
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The rouge is pretty cool, I liked it overall, but maybe there are two points I would change
- The Lockpicking talent should be in SKILLS (access to all castes)
- The Drakeskin armor should REALLY get a unique skin.
- The Lockpicking talent should be in SKILLS (access to all castes)
- The Drakeskin armor should REALLY get a unique skin.
#164
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 12:36
draxynnus
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This being the non-spoiler forum - It makes sense that she can do it, she just shouldn't do it indiscriminately.One thing weird: To have Leliana beeing the thief (able to steal in pockets) though she's so religious, 'good' etc...Not her mentality!
(I tended to treat it as a punishment - if someone annoyed me or did something else to deserve it, then they end up paying a fine. However, I don't have her steal off random refugees - that really would be just wrong.)
#165
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 12:53
Nimue_KV
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I find it hard to play anything but a rogue, and I like the way how you can focus on different aspects when developing a rogue character. Having said that, I found the Bard specialization less than useful. My rogues so far had the Ranger and Assassin specializations, which suits my style of playing just fine.
What really annoyed me was the way how the Stealth talent works. As soon as my character gets near hostile NPCs while sneaking, she goes into combat mode, even if the enemies don't detect her. In my view, the whole point of sneaking around is to avoid combat, so the mode change should not be triggered automatically like that.
I agree with those people who said that the selection of light armour is a bit disappointing. (And please - get rid of that dog collar that comes with female-type leather armour!) I'd like to see a bit more variation, but I guess it's just a question of time until a kind modder comes up with something.
Also, pickpocketing seems to be mostly useless, with the exception of a certain line of side quests. Apart from these three or four (small) quests, I never got anything interesting from anyone, so I usually don't bother spending points on that talent.
What really annoyed me was the way how the Stealth talent works. As soon as my character gets near hostile NPCs while sneaking, she goes into combat mode, even if the enemies don't detect her. In my view, the whole point of sneaking around is to avoid combat, so the mode change should not be triggered automatically like that.
I agree with those people who said that the selection of light armour is a bit disappointing. (And please - get rid of that dog collar that comes with female-type leather armour!) I'd like to see a bit more variation, but I guess it's just a question of time until a kind modder comes up with something.
Also, pickpocketing seems to be mostly useless, with the exception of a certain line of side quests. Apart from these three or four (small) quests, I never got anything interesting from anyone, so I usually don't bother spending points on that talent.
#166
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 01:15
Anomaly-
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Let me start off by saying that I love this game, and I feel that the developers did a good job on the Rogue class, overall. My post may come off a bit critical, but that is only because I find it much easier to focus on things I didn't like than those that I did. I have always been all about the Rogue archetype, in any game I've played. I believe the first Rogue type I really played was in Diablo, over 13 years ago, and I haven't looked back since. I've played Rogues in countless games since then, and I feel I have a good understanding (at least for myself) of what makes a good Rogue.
Well, like I said, I'm going to focus more on the dislike. First of all, my view of the Rogue archetype is a self-serving loner who is very swift, agile, and skilled at deception and exploitation of weakness. Speaking strictly in terms of modern gameplay roles, this translates into a single target dps machine. I feel that this vision was met in ways, and others not as far as DA:O is concerned.
Backstabbing. Well done, overall. This is an essential aspect of a Rogue. A guaranteed critical hit everytime, which forces the player to do all they can to find their way to the most vulnerable side of their enemy, as a Rogue should. Exploit Weakness is also good in my book, however, I feel like it probably should have been a part of the Rogue's repretoire from the start. Most Rogue archetypes start with some form of backstabbing, and work to improve it as they become stronger, resulting in larger bonuses. I didn't really like the ability to backstab with any weapon, though. That's just not my idea of a Rogue. A Rogue wielding a dagger and thrusting it swiftly between a gap in the enemy's armor for much greater damage is what I envision. Rogues are built on agility, speed, and exploitation, after all. A Rogue lugging around a huge greatsword just isn't believable to me. Besides, the enemy would have to be pretty stupid not to notice that in time to do something about it.
Stealth. I felt stealth was not well represented. This is another essential aspect of any Rogue. In DA:O, stealth basically grants you one guaranteed critical hit. Big whoop. I always get that, and many more besides anyway as soon as I get around to my target's back. And as soon as I have Alistair in my party and well outfitted in heavy armor with Taunt, the backs of my enemies are quite easy to find, and the ability to hide then is almost useless. Yes, its true you can go around disarming traps and the like, but honestly I never really had the need. Besides, I didn't feel stealth was well represented there, either. A Rogue should be able to use lighting (or lack thereof), objects, and line of sight to sneak toward an enemy's back, or other places besides, within a certain radius. In DA:O, however, I can walk around freely in broad daylight, directly in front of my enemies, disarming traps as I please, and not be seen. I'm a Rogue, not a Wizard. I feel that stealth could be improved by making it a more integral part of Rogue combat (and also more believable). Backstabs from stealth should be more potent, or perhaps there could be particularly damaging attacks only useable from behind the target while in stealth. One might also remain in stealth until an enemy attacks them. Skills to re-establish stealth once broken from it would also be useful.
Poison. I was rather underwhelmed by poison. Like stealth, I was a bit surprised that it was even optional. Without poison and stealth, what is a Rogue but a Warrior in light armor (especially since they share the same dual weild and archery trees) who can pick locks? (also if you so choose). A Rogue archetype should always have good dots. After all, a Rogue is not a head-on, brute force combatant. It only makes sense for a Rogue to deliver devastating cuts to a stronger, more heavily armored opponent to bleed some of that vitality out of them. Instead of many poisons simply adding a color coded additional number to attacks, I feel they could have been better served as powerful dots with useful effects/debuffs. I did like the poisons that had a chance to stun. The only other dots I know of are Lacerate (which was also a bit underwhelming), and that one dual weapon perk which was almost unnoticeable.
Stealing. I just feel like more could have been done with it. It was very hard to believe with its lack of risk/consequence, and I was pretty underwhelmed by the reward, though I guess that is fitting with having no risk. I think it could be made somewhat more interesting and more rewarding, without being overpowered to the point other classes sorely envy it.
Talents. This is a mixed bag. Some, like dirty fighting, were good and very Rogue appropriate to me. Others, like deadly strike were almost useless to me. Mark of Death is another very Rogue appropriate skill, however I was also surprised that it was a specialization skill, as any Rogue would be the type to exploit a weakness of an enemy. Also, I didn't like that Mark of Death affected all types of damage. Like I said, Rogues are self-serving loners, not so much team players. I could see, perhaps, other fighters also benefiting from this skill, but magic users as well? That just doesn't make sense to me. How is a Rogue going to make an enemy more vulnerable to magic when he/she doesn't know anything about magic? I think it would be better if Mark of Death either lowered the physical defense of the enemy, or increased the potency of the Rogue's backstabs/criticals. Below the Belt was also a skill I liked and found Rogue appropriate. I felt it could have had a lower cooldown, though. If I were a Rogue, I would kick the groin/kneecap of every enemy I faced for the bonus it provided. That brings me to another issue, though. Fights in DA:O were not long enough, more specifically, there were not enough enemies with enough health that using integral Rogue debuff skills like Below the Belt or Mark of Death were actually necessarry, or even beneficial half the time. Particularly tough bosses were pretty much the only exception.
Skill trees. As I mentioned, I didn't like the fact that there was basically no difference in the weapon trees between Rogues and Warriors. Rogue archetypes have always favored small bladed weapons and bows, that's no secret. Rarely do you see Warriors using either very effectively. Yet in DA:O, Warriors are not only effective but some might even argue superior to Rogues using these weapons, due to some of their class-specific talents. At least the Rogue and Warrior specific trees were different enough, for the most part.
It's hard for me to say anything is really under or overpowered. I would say, rather, that it could have been done differently. Stealth and poison especially, for example. As I said, single target debuffing talents like Below the Belt and Mark of Death (very integral to a Rogue archetype) lost much of their potential usefulness because of the fact that the majority of enemies could be dropped with a few quick backstabs. Momentum I felt was a bit much, though surely Rogues should attack rather quickly by default, and I suppose they could really turn it up for a short time. I am far more concerned with the design and overall feel of the class and its options/potential than talent x doing y amount of damage. The wonderful thing about a game like DA:O is the fact that I can mod such values to create whatever balance I think feels right. Archery, for example, is somewhat underpowered in the vanilla game, but after I had some modding time with it I haven't any real gripes with it balance wise.
Most favorite: Assassin and Duelist, certainly. Least favorite: Ranger.
I've always played Rogues to dispatch targets as quickly and effectively as possible. Assassin and Duelist lend themselves well to this, although some of the more defensive abilities are not what I know Rogues for. The Rogue archetype is big on offense, low on defense; a glass cannon, as it were. Bard is also good, I just never take it simply because I always have Leliana in party. Ranger is least favorite simply because its a bit underpowered. I felt it could have done more to improve archery and lengthen the gap between Rogue and Warrior archers, and I think the pet(s) could have been improved in several ways.
That being said, I am glad the specializations (even the ones I don't personally associate with a Rogue) are decidedly different, and I would encourage them to be even more so. I love my class to have many different options so I don't feel like a clone of every other Rogue, even if this is a single player game. More variety also lends itself to higher replayability.
Much like the last question. Favorite would be Assassin, because that is the way I play my Rogues. However, like I said, Mark of Death, Exploit Weakness, and Lacerate are all skills I would expect any Rogue to have, but maybe thats just me. Again, Ranger is least favorite because of its gimpness. More archery improvements would be good, and I think focusing on one pet and either improving its stats or adding skills would be a better approach.
My Suggestions
It would be nice to see poison expanded on, as well as stealing made more interesting. Stealth should have more of an impact on combat, either giving a flat bonus to criticals while stealthed, or with certain highly damaging skills only useable from stealth. It would be nice if stealth were also expanded on for things like stealing. The Rogue would also benefit from a seperate weapon tree, perhaps a one handed dagger tree that focused more on highly damaging skills (preferrably involving stealth) and backstabs/debuffs, and less on the speed and aoe skills of dual wielding. As others have said, skills could also use more variety, especially concerning specializations. Several skills just serve as slightly improved versions of previous skills. The bard is one example of a specialization done well, though it could certainly have more depth (ie: several songs affecting several different stat combinations/enemy debuffs, instead of just song of courage - battle, song of valor - regen). Specializations in general could use more depth and specialization.
This suggestion may also be toolset related. I would like to see additional properties added. For example, a property like 'critical vulnerability' that adds X% damage to criticals/backstabs would be perfect for a skill like Mark of Death. Other properties like 'healing focus' that add X% to healing effects (given, not recieved) would give specific classes more ways of improving their effectiveness, as well as helping to improve the rather shallow itemization.
Misc Thoughts
I don't know if anyone here has played Vanguard, but I enjoyed that incarnation of the Rogue archetype the most of any game I've played. Many of my suggestions are influenced by that experience. Stealth was a constant aspect of combat, the longer you managed to stay in it, the greater the bonuses you got from it. If an enemy attacked you and broke your stealth, you had skills like throwing sand in the enemy's eyes to regain stealth and build it up again. Combat became a constant fight to maintain stealth and keep your damage at its highest potential. There were also some of your best skills you could only use while in a certain rank of stealth. You also had several very effective dots and debuffs. This really helped to encourage a Rogueish playstyle, and was incredibly rewarding in the process. I've never felt like more of a Rogue than when I snuck up behind an enemy while stealthed, picked its pocket, delivered a massive backstab, landed a lethal dot, kicked out its knee to slow it, then casually walked backward filling it with arrows from my shortbow while it staggered after me bleeding to death.
Brings tears to my eyes.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I like the fact that things like stealth, poison, and stealing are optional. I think it would be awesome if they all had more depth, though. Like, to the point where someone could spend all of their points in any one tree and continue to see improvement, if they so wished. This would allow for even more options and variety, and allow people to play exactly the type of Rogue they want. As it is now, someone might want to play a Rogue that focuses solely on stealth and traps, but they could only go so far with it until they would be forced to spend points on things they may have no interest in like poison, stealing or coercion. Of course, this is just my unrealistic dream of a game world without boundaries or caps. I like the fact that at least most of those skills continue to benefit from higher cunning scores throughout the game.
What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
Well, like I said, I'm going to focus more on the dislike. First of all, my view of the Rogue archetype is a self-serving loner who is very swift, agile, and skilled at deception and exploitation of weakness. Speaking strictly in terms of modern gameplay roles, this translates into a single target dps machine. I feel that this vision was met in ways, and others not as far as DA:O is concerned.
Backstabbing. Well done, overall. This is an essential aspect of a Rogue. A guaranteed critical hit everytime, which forces the player to do all they can to find their way to the most vulnerable side of their enemy, as a Rogue should. Exploit Weakness is also good in my book, however, I feel like it probably should have been a part of the Rogue's repretoire from the start. Most Rogue archetypes start with some form of backstabbing, and work to improve it as they become stronger, resulting in larger bonuses. I didn't really like the ability to backstab with any weapon, though. That's just not my idea of a Rogue. A Rogue wielding a dagger and thrusting it swiftly between a gap in the enemy's armor for much greater damage is what I envision. Rogues are built on agility, speed, and exploitation, after all. A Rogue lugging around a huge greatsword just isn't believable to me. Besides, the enemy would have to be pretty stupid not to notice that in time to do something about it.
Stealth. I felt stealth was not well represented. This is another essential aspect of any Rogue. In DA:O, stealth basically grants you one guaranteed critical hit. Big whoop. I always get that, and many more besides anyway as soon as I get around to my target's back. And as soon as I have Alistair in my party and well outfitted in heavy armor with Taunt, the backs of my enemies are quite easy to find, and the ability to hide then is almost useless. Yes, its true you can go around disarming traps and the like, but honestly I never really had the need. Besides, I didn't feel stealth was well represented there, either. A Rogue should be able to use lighting (or lack thereof), objects, and line of sight to sneak toward an enemy's back, or other places besides, within a certain radius. In DA:O, however, I can walk around freely in broad daylight, directly in front of my enemies, disarming traps as I please, and not be seen. I'm a Rogue, not a Wizard. I feel that stealth could be improved by making it a more integral part of Rogue combat (and also more believable). Backstabs from stealth should be more potent, or perhaps there could be particularly damaging attacks only useable from behind the target while in stealth. One might also remain in stealth until an enemy attacks them. Skills to re-establish stealth once broken from it would also be useful.
Poison. I was rather underwhelmed by poison. Like stealth, I was a bit surprised that it was even optional. Without poison and stealth, what is a Rogue but a Warrior in light armor (especially since they share the same dual weild and archery trees) who can pick locks? (also if you so choose). A Rogue archetype should always have good dots. After all, a Rogue is not a head-on, brute force combatant. It only makes sense for a Rogue to deliver devastating cuts to a stronger, more heavily armored opponent to bleed some of that vitality out of them. Instead of many poisons simply adding a color coded additional number to attacks, I feel they could have been better served as powerful dots with useful effects/debuffs. I did like the poisons that had a chance to stun. The only other dots I know of are Lacerate (which was also a bit underwhelming), and that one dual weapon perk which was almost unnoticeable.
Stealing. I just feel like more could have been done with it. It was very hard to believe with its lack of risk/consequence, and I was pretty underwhelmed by the reward, though I guess that is fitting with having no risk. I think it could be made somewhat more interesting and more rewarding, without being overpowered to the point other classes sorely envy it.
Talents. This is a mixed bag. Some, like dirty fighting, were good and very Rogue appropriate to me. Others, like deadly strike were almost useless to me. Mark of Death is another very Rogue appropriate skill, however I was also surprised that it was a specialization skill, as any Rogue would be the type to exploit a weakness of an enemy. Also, I didn't like that Mark of Death affected all types of damage. Like I said, Rogues are self-serving loners, not so much team players. I could see, perhaps, other fighters also benefiting from this skill, but magic users as well? That just doesn't make sense to me. How is a Rogue going to make an enemy more vulnerable to magic when he/she doesn't know anything about magic? I think it would be better if Mark of Death either lowered the physical defense of the enemy, or increased the potency of the Rogue's backstabs/criticals. Below the Belt was also a skill I liked and found Rogue appropriate. I felt it could have had a lower cooldown, though. If I were a Rogue, I would kick the groin/kneecap of every enemy I faced for the bonus it provided. That brings me to another issue, though. Fights in DA:O were not long enough, more specifically, there were not enough enemies with enough health that using integral Rogue debuff skills like Below the Belt or Mark of Death were actually necessarry, or even beneficial half the time. Particularly tough bosses were pretty much the only exception.
Skill trees. As I mentioned, I didn't like the fact that there was basically no difference in the weapon trees between Rogues and Warriors. Rogue archetypes have always favored small bladed weapons and bows, that's no secret. Rarely do you see Warriors using either very effectively. Yet in DA:O, Warriors are not only effective but some might even argue superior to Rogues using these weapons, due to some of their class-specific talents. At least the Rogue and Warrior specific trees were different enough, for the most part.
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
It's hard for me to say anything is really under or overpowered. I would say, rather, that it could have been done differently. Stealth and poison especially, for example. As I said, single target debuffing talents like Below the Belt and Mark of Death (very integral to a Rogue archetype) lost much of their potential usefulness because of the fact that the majority of enemies could be dropped with a few quick backstabs. Momentum I felt was a bit much, though surely Rogues should attack rather quickly by default, and I suppose they could really turn it up for a short time. I am far more concerned with the design and overall feel of the class and its options/potential than talent x doing y amount of damage. The wonderful thing about a game like DA:O is the fact that I can mod such values to create whatever balance I think feels right. Archery, for example, is somewhat underpowered in the vanilla game, but after I had some modding time with it I haven't any real gripes with it balance wise.
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Most favorite: Assassin and Duelist, certainly. Least favorite: Ranger.
I've always played Rogues to dispatch targets as quickly and effectively as possible. Assassin and Duelist lend themselves well to this, although some of the more defensive abilities are not what I know Rogues for. The Rogue archetype is big on offense, low on defense; a glass cannon, as it were. Bard is also good, I just never take it simply because I always have Leliana in party. Ranger is least favorite simply because its a bit underpowered. I felt it could have done more to improve archery and lengthen the gap between Rogue and Warrior archers, and I think the pet(s) could have been improved in several ways.
That being said, I am glad the specializations (even the ones I don't personally associate with a Rogue) are decidedly different, and I would encourage them to be even more so. I love my class to have many different options so I don't feel like a clone of every other Rogue, even if this is a single player game. More variety also lends itself to higher replayability.
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Much like the last question. Favorite would be Assassin, because that is the way I play my Rogues. However, like I said, Mark of Death, Exploit Weakness, and Lacerate are all skills I would expect any Rogue to have, but maybe thats just me. Again, Ranger is least favorite because of its gimpness. More archery improvements would be good, and I think focusing on one pet and either improving its stats or adding skills would be a better approach.
My Suggestions
It would be nice to see poison expanded on, as well as stealing made more interesting. Stealth should have more of an impact on combat, either giving a flat bonus to criticals while stealthed, or with certain highly damaging skills only useable from stealth. It would be nice if stealth were also expanded on for things like stealing. The Rogue would also benefit from a seperate weapon tree, perhaps a one handed dagger tree that focused more on highly damaging skills (preferrably involving stealth) and backstabs/debuffs, and less on the speed and aoe skills of dual wielding. As others have said, skills could also use more variety, especially concerning specializations. Several skills just serve as slightly improved versions of previous skills. The bard is one example of a specialization done well, though it could certainly have more depth (ie: several songs affecting several different stat combinations/enemy debuffs, instead of just song of courage - battle, song of valor - regen). Specializations in general could use more depth and specialization.
This suggestion may also be toolset related. I would like to see additional properties added. For example, a property like 'critical vulnerability' that adds X% damage to criticals/backstabs would be perfect for a skill like Mark of Death. Other properties like 'healing focus' that add X% to healing effects (given, not recieved) would give specific classes more ways of improving their effectiveness, as well as helping to improve the rather shallow itemization.
Misc Thoughts
I don't know if anyone here has played Vanguard, but I enjoyed that incarnation of the Rogue archetype the most of any game I've played. Many of my suggestions are influenced by that experience. Stealth was a constant aspect of combat, the longer you managed to stay in it, the greater the bonuses you got from it. If an enemy attacked you and broke your stealth, you had skills like throwing sand in the enemy's eyes to regain stealth and build it up again. Combat became a constant fight to maintain stealth and keep your damage at its highest potential. There were also some of your best skills you could only use while in a certain rank of stealth. You also had several very effective dots and debuffs. This really helped to encourage a Rogueish playstyle, and was incredibly rewarding in the process. I've never felt like more of a Rogue than when I snuck up behind an enemy while stealthed, picked its pocket, delivered a massive backstab, landed a lethal dot, kicked out its knee to slow it, then casually walked backward filling it with arrows from my shortbow while it staggered after me bleeding to death.
Brings tears to my eyes.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I like the fact that things like stealth, poison, and stealing are optional. I think it would be awesome if they all had more depth, though. Like, to the point where someone could spend all of their points in any one tree and continue to see improvement, if they so wished. This would allow for even more options and variety, and allow people to play exactly the type of Rogue they want. As it is now, someone might want to play a Rogue that focuses solely on stealth and traps, but they could only go so far with it until they would be forced to spend points on things they may have no interest in like poison, stealing or coercion. Of course, this is just my unrealistic dream of a game world without boundaries or caps. I like the fact that at least most of those skills continue to benefit from higher cunning scores throughout the game.
Modifié par Anomaly-, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:13 .
#167
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 01:35
Graciemae
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More ranged weapons may be nice...throwing daggers, stars, poisoned darts etc
Modifié par Graciemae, 23 janvier 2010 - 01:36 .
#168
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 02:40
Skyie84
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I find the Rogue to be my second most fun class to play after the Mage. Backstabbing from Stealth is fun and the specialisiations are great too. I like the utility of the Rogue, being able to pick locks and disarm traps. I was disappointed that there were not many Archery-friendly builds for the Rogue ie. Combat Movement, Lethality and Coup de Grace all rely on a backstabbing Rogue. Feign Death was a useless skill for me as Stealth helped me out there.
It feels as though the developers geared the Rogue towards backstabbing a lot. Therefore the archery felt compromised and it seemed as though it was much better to go for a Dual Wielding Rogue rather than an Archer. Even the specialisations helped a backstabbing Rogue rather than an Archer. Assassin and Duelist you couldn't really get with an archer build.
All the specialisations are fun to play with. Ranger was a bit different to what I expected. Whilst it was an Archer-friendly class it was not geared towards an Archer in mind. I would have liked to have seen a more Archer-specific specialisation. Perhaps some way of clearing distance between yourself and a target.
It feels as though the developers geared the Rogue towards backstabbing a lot. Therefore the archery felt compromised and it seemed as though it was much better to go for a Dual Wielding Rogue rather than an Archer. Even the specialisations helped a backstabbing Rogue rather than an Archer. Assassin and Duelist you couldn't really get with an archer build.
All the specialisations are fun to play with. Ranger was a bit different to what I expected. Whilst it was an Archer-friendly class it was not geared towards an Archer in mind. I would have liked to have seen a more Archer-specific specialisation. Perhaps some way of clearing distance between yourself and a target.
#169
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 03:10
teurmarr
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I like most of what the rogue has. Most useless thing for me is feign death (never found a situation where I used it). Usually for specialization I pick assasin and bard-the assasin for the skills and stat bonuses and the bard for the passive party enhancement.
The one thing I would most like to see changed is in AI. A rogue (who isn't an archer) is most useful in combat when doing a backstab. Problem is that to do a backstab you have to be in control of that character as the characters do not position themselves for backstabbing. Would like to see a rogue not being directly controlled do some positioning for backstabs. I always find myself giving Leilana a bow and leaving Zevran in camp because I don't want to keep taking direct control of them during fights. I can tell my mage what spells to use, my warrior what special attacks to use, but can't tell my rogue to get behind whatever they are attacking.
Only other complaint is very early in the game and very specific to one situation. Frustrating in the Koncari Wilds to have an npc along who is a rogue but who cannot open chests. Since that is before you meet a rogue who will join you it would have been nice to have a rogue with actual rogue skills. Not a problem when I was a rogue myself, but I did do a bit of cursing at the programmers when I was a warrior or mage. Just something to keep in mind for any future expansions with situations where you have no control over who your party members are. If you have a rogue along, he/she should be able to at least open chests.
The one thing I would most like to see changed is in AI. A rogue (who isn't an archer) is most useful in combat when doing a backstab. Problem is that to do a backstab you have to be in control of that character as the characters do not position themselves for backstabbing. Would like to see a rogue not being directly controlled do some positioning for backstabs. I always find myself giving Leilana a bow and leaving Zevran in camp because I don't want to keep taking direct control of them during fights. I can tell my mage what spells to use, my warrior what special attacks to use, but can't tell my rogue to get behind whatever they are attacking.
Only other complaint is very early in the game and very specific to one situation. Frustrating in the Koncari Wilds to have an npc along who is a rogue but who cannot open chests. Since that is before you meet a rogue who will join you it would have been nice to have a rogue with actual rogue skills. Not a problem when I was a rogue myself, but I did do a bit of cursing at the programmers when I was a warrior or mage. Just something to keep in mind for any future expansions with situations where you have no control over who your party members are. If you have a rogue along, he/she should be able to at least open chests.
#170
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 03:19
Maddyanne
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[*]Victor Wachter wrote...
- What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
- Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
- What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
- What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Be sure to answer the poll on Rogue specializations as well!
[*]
[*]I love Stealth. Being able to just vanish in combat might be unrealistic, but it compensates for cutscenes shoving your PC to the front of the party and I'm very grateful. Beyond that, I really like being able to scout effectively, clearing up traps before my party stumbles into them.
[*]
[*]I love Lethality. Being a cunning dual weilding dagger rogue is so much fun. I take all the Rogue specific talents except for Feign Death, unless I'm feeling completist. It would be good if Evasion got unbugged for times you don't want to be running your rogue in combat, since it can throw you out of the fight.
[*]
[*]Using poisons and bombs and such is very handy. I don't use traps too much, but do set a few. Poisons and herbalism are such useful things in DA and that's been very much fun. Usually my PC doesn't have enough skill points to go round. Survival turned out to be quite useful for a scout inclined PC.
[*]
[*]Momentum. Gotta have it. Whirlwind not so much.
[*]
[*]Archer feels very underpowered. I know a well built archer can do amazing damage and I always give Leli all the archer talents, but it's not much fun to play yourself as party leader. More good bows would be nice. The best bow your PC can have requires doing somthing I'd rather not and that's very frustrating.
[*]
[*]More spiffy rogue outfits, please. And something that isn't midriff or upper chest baring would be really nice.
[*]
[*]Bard and Assassin are my favourite specializations. I do miss having a few bard spells and wish the songs could expand a bit to give you some healing abilities.
[*]
[*]It would be good to get something beside the pets in Ranger, though if I were playing an archer, I'd take it regardless.
[*]
[*]On the whole, I'm enjoying the DA rogue class very very much.
Modifié par Maddyanne, 23 janvier 2010 - 03:20 .
#171
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 03:44
Mirolsen
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What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
I like rogues playstyle. Stealth, backstabs etc its awesome
What i dislike? Why there is no good light armor sets. Only 1 wade drakeskin and many massive ;/
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Archers skills are too expensive, they cost too much
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Assassin is my favorite
ranger have too many summon skills
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
My favorite is dualwield but why attack speed reset to 0 when i use momentum +haste. Haste+haste stack
I like rogues playstyle. Stealth, backstabs etc its awesome
What i dislike? Why there is no good light armor sets. Only 1 wade drakeskin and many massive ;/
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Archers skills are too expensive, they cost too much
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Assassin is my favorite
ranger have too many summon skills
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
My favorite is dualwield but why attack speed reset to 0 when i use momentum +haste. Haste+haste stack
#172
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 04:08
GeorgeZip
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There's a few things to mention that were huge improvements to rogues from the old BG2 days. You can open a door or chest even with stealth 1 and not automatically have to recast stealth. The second thing that stood out was your party for the most part stops at "enemy sighted" by the rogue. That feature is so nice, removing alot of tedious ping pong movement between the rogue and main group.
I cant say there's much to improve on with melee rogues. It would be nice to have a slightly larger bonus for your first attack from stealth. I'd tie it to an activated skill like deadly strike, make it 3x damage for a sucessful hit from stealth. Enemy rogues would get the same deal, so it may be more pain than gain.
Archery didn't apeal to me. The tactics of Lileana can be frustrating. If you want to keep her at range against a revenant, she will put away the bow and run in for a below the belt unless you disable it. Archery would be better if there was a better way to say "keep firing arrows unless someones meleeing you".
Late Warrior Comments:
I have to mention that dual weild warriors rock since I just about finished my first try at nightmare using one. Took Loghain down so fast, no potions, and still had about 2/3 of life left. Maybe they are too strong.
Two-handers just seem soooo slow. I've yet to make one myself but did use Sten as a tank for a whole game, and have taken Ogrhen in the deep roads. Often they are taking their super slow back swing and you can move in and kill their target before their weapon is moving forward. I'd make the swings faster and reduce the damage per swing if necessary.
I cant say there's much to improve on with melee rogues. It would be nice to have a slightly larger bonus for your first attack from stealth. I'd tie it to an activated skill like deadly strike, make it 3x damage for a sucessful hit from stealth. Enemy rogues would get the same deal, so it may be more pain than gain.
Archery didn't apeal to me. The tactics of Lileana can be frustrating. If you want to keep her at range against a revenant, she will put away the bow and run in for a below the belt unless you disable it. Archery would be better if there was a better way to say "keep firing arrows unless someones meleeing you".
Late Warrior Comments:
I have to mention that dual weild warriors rock since I just about finished my first try at nightmare using one. Took Loghain down so fast, no potions, and still had about 2/3 of life left. Maybe they are too strong.
Two-handers just seem soooo slow. I've yet to make one myself but did use Sten as a tank for a whole game, and have taken Ogrhen in the deep roads. Often they are taking their super slow back swing and you can move in and kill their target before their weapon is moving forward. I'd make the swings faster and reduce the damage per swing if necessary.
#173
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 04:22
Rustedknight
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I found the rogue to be a very satisfying class. It lends itself to many different role playing options from black hearted thug to clever guerrilla fighter to heroic adventurer. The rogues dependence on low fatigue and thus lighter armor, keeps them from being overpowered. The backstab makes micro managing this class fun. I will agree with what others have already said in that rogues tend to make you wish you had more skill points for all the crafting skills. A bit more flair and variety in light armor looks would also be nice.
One place variety is not lacking is in the specializations available to the rogue. All of them are useful and compelling. The Ranger gives you an extra tank or DPS making taking on large mobs easier, Assassin provides nice damage buffs, Duelist is a great second specialization to back up any of the others, and bard is go in a support role.
The rogue talent tree is large, but allows for a lot of customization of the character which is very welcome compared to how some games treat rogues. The dual wield is nice to watch and provides some nice talents. Archery is very handy in a support role but does feel a little underpowered.
Over all rogues are a great class with lots of options in play style, if not look.
One place variety is not lacking is in the specializations available to the rogue. All of them are useful and compelling. The Ranger gives you an extra tank or DPS making taking on large mobs easier, Assassin provides nice damage buffs, Duelist is a great second specialization to back up any of the others, and bard is go in a support role.
The rogue talent tree is large, but allows for a lot of customization of the character which is very welcome compared to how some games treat rogues. The dual wield is nice to watch and provides some nice talents. Archery is very handy in a support role but does feel a little underpowered.
Over all rogues are a great class with lots of options in play style, if not look.
#174
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 04:33
Nitro9a
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I loved the fact that there were rogue-specific quests until I realized I couldn't really play them like a rogue. I'd sneak into a place all stealthy-like, steal whatever I needed to steal and carefully try to sneak back out, avoiding traps and any actions that would break my stealth, only to find that I couldn't access the city map because I was technically "in-combat". Then I'd either get murdered because I was by myself or my party would have to fight through the entire map from where I left them to get to me. Aside from the rogue quests, I tried to do the Rescue the Queen quest with only Zevran and myself, and though it was impossible to complete the quest stealthed, the two of us managed to defeat the boss at the end as well as everything else in our way alone. So combat-wise, a couple of rogues can do some serious damage by themselves but I found the stealth mechanics seriously disappointing.
I was also really excited about being a ranger until I realized that I had to re-summon my beasts every time I entered a new area, which was tedious, so I never bought more than one talent from that tree.
Perhaps the fact that everyone can use bombs and poisons is a little overpowered. By my second playthrough I realized I could give just one of my followers all the points in poisons and give just one to myself and everyone else so we all could drop bomb after bomb of any level. Extremely effective, but got me out of every difficult combat without having to do much thinking.
I was also really excited about being a ranger until I realized that I had to re-summon my beasts every time I entered a new area, which was tedious, so I never bought more than one talent from that tree.
Perhaps the fact that everyone can use bombs and poisons is a little overpowered. By my second playthrough I realized I could give just one of my followers all the points in poisons and give just one to myself and everyone else so we all could drop bomb after bomb of any level. Extremely effective, but got me out of every difficult combat without having to do much thinking.
#175
Posté 23 janvier 2010 - 04:33
Tor_pedo
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What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
The lockpicking is a nice talent, but i do agree that it is a bit annoying having to spend 4 points in it in order to open locks, points that could be spent on more combat related talents. But I think it's a nice idea that only rogues are able to open locks and disarm traps. Most chests don't contain anything interesting at all, except from the rare few that gives you an epic load of money or other usable gifts.
I never used stealth - to me that talent is useless, but I can see how alot of people are having fun with it.
Also theres the gear - which is plain boring, not to mention ugly. The plate armor looks much cooler.
I also think the Lethality talent could be modified to let the rogue use cunning in place of strength in order to get better gear, so rogues wouldn't have to stack cunning, dexterity, strength and willpower in order to be effective, since you have to have a fair ammount of str to wear better gear. (In similar fashion to Arcane Warriors who use magic).
Alternatively gear that relies on cunning score or dexterity. Or just lowering the str requirements for all rogue gear overall.
Rogues need a lot of micro-managing to be useful, which i dont always mind, but I would welcome a mod that made rogues automatically assume backstab position and trying to move behind their targets.
If such a thing is even possible.
Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
I think archery is a bit underpowered, as they miss alot. I like archery and my rogue is kickass at it, but it doesn't do much unless you spam your abilities.
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
I like all except ranger. I've used ranger alot, though, just because I feel Duelist and Asssassin is fairly useless for an archer. I think a more archer-friendly specialization should be introduced, perhaps on that decreases aming time, lets you enchant arrows and such.
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Hm, thats a tough one as I liked both dual wielding and archery. There are both good and bad aspects of all trees; the archery, as i mentioned, missing too much and making leliana suck ass at everything but opening locks unless you make her pick up a few melee skills. Untill later in the game anyways. I don't see any flaws with dual-wielding. The rogue tree? Well... Faint is useless. Other talents are good.
Else 'tis all good
The lockpicking is a nice talent, but i do agree that it is a bit annoying having to spend 4 points in it in order to open locks, points that could be spent on more combat related talents. But I think it's a nice idea that only rogues are able to open locks and disarm traps. Most chests don't contain anything interesting at all, except from the rare few that gives you an epic load of money or other usable gifts.
I never used stealth - to me that talent is useless, but I can see how alot of people are having fun with it.
Also theres the gear - which is plain boring, not to mention ugly. The plate armor looks much cooler.
I also think the Lethality talent could be modified to let the rogue use cunning in place of strength in order to get better gear, so rogues wouldn't have to stack cunning, dexterity, strength and willpower in order to be effective, since you have to have a fair ammount of str to wear better gear. (In similar fashion to Arcane Warriors who use magic).
Alternatively gear that relies on cunning score or dexterity. Or just lowering the str requirements for all rogue gear overall.
Rogues need a lot of micro-managing to be useful, which i dont always mind, but I would welcome a mod that made rogues automatically assume backstab position and trying to move behind their targets.
If such a thing is even possible.Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
I think archery is a bit underpowered, as they miss alot. I like archery and my rogue is kickass at it, but it doesn't do much unless you spam your abilities.
What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
I like all except ranger. I've used ranger alot, though, just because I feel Duelist and Asssassin is fairly useless for an archer. I think a more archer-friendly specialization should be introduced, perhaps on that decreases aming time, lets you enchant arrows and such.
What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
Hm, thats a tough one as I liked both dual wielding and archery. There are both good and bad aspects of all trees; the archery, as i mentioned, missing too much and making leliana suck ass at everything but opening locks unless you make her pick up a few melee skills. Untill later in the game anyways. I don't see any flaws with dual-wielding. The rogue tree? Well... Faint is useless. Other talents are good.
Else 'tis all good
