375 réponses à ce sujet

[Moirnelithe]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?


[*]I like the versatility of the class, you can play a rogue in several playthroughs and still have totally different characters because there are so many skills and talents to choose from. It's also a more tactical class, having to take account the position of your character in order to do backstabs, remove traps etc.


[*]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Dual daggers is either way overpowered or archery is very underpowered. Either way it's much easier to finish the game using dual daggers if you don't use some kind of archery mod.



[*]What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

The bard specialization is a must have, the party songs make that much of a difference, I'm not entirely sure I like that but it is the most powerful specialization in my opinion. I usually pick assassin as my second specialization. I've never really seen any point to duelist or ranger, their skills are rather weak compared to bard/assassin. Aside from the fact that I don't think a ranger is a rogue at all.



[*]What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?


[*]First of all I'd like to say I don't like the talent trees at all. Being forced to pick a skill that I'll never use just to get to the 3rd or 4th tier in the tree is a pain. Especially when the lower skill has nothing at all to do with the 3rd or 4th tier. 
[*]I like the passives the rogue gets, the one that enlarge the backstab area and lethality.

[*]I fail to see the point of fake death, I've never felt the need to use it especially since it's 4th tier and I'd rather put the skill point into something more useful. Easier to just reload the game if your party gets wiped. Nor do I mind if my PC dies, aside from wounds there doesn't seem that much of a consequence to it.

[*]I also don't like stealth since it takes up 4 points that are much better spent elsewhere.

[*]Trapmaking is only marginally useful, most of the time the other party members trigger the traps before I get the chance to disarm them even though they've already been revealed.

Modifié par Evainelithe, 23 janvier 2010 - 05:12 .

[Sarevok Anchev]

[*]What do you like and dislike about the Rogue? They have different builds with completely different playing styles. Archer, Summoner, Stealthkiller, Supporter, Dps. And you can even combine 2 or 3 of this traits in one build. They have much more skillpoints and gamechanging utilites by their talents. I dislike their "Talent-distribution". There are too many talents you could and would pick, but not enough talent-points. If at least lockpick would have been taken over to the skills-section, the distribution would have been more smoothly, i think. I also disliked the fact, that Rogues were merely planned as Dualwield Backstabbers, who can open locks and disarm traps! Bow talents were weak till patch and only with special planning would become useful, but would lose in comparison to Warriors, Mages and DW_Rogues.
[*]Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Cunning builds are a little bit too strong. Pure Dexterity builds are almost invincible. Bow-talents could be better.
[*]What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Ranger is good, because of the Pets. Bard is a good party-member because of the party-effects. Duelists and Assassins have useful Passive and Active/Sustain talents for Fighters. But at least Assassins Mark i never used after some time.
[*]What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite? All are good. But Stealth i would only use in Solo-Games. And Lockpicking is just a waste; it should have been a skill, because i dislike it to take Leliana/Zevran in the party for all the chests. So i always have a party with 2 Warriors, Rogue, Mage. The talent trees with below the belt and dirty tricks are very useful; only feign death and below the belt seem almost useless.

[MeltyLotus]

I hate how the rogue gets no boost for arching. Typical it's their place. Then being a Dailish Elf and not reaping anything for my bow from it seems a bit silly.



Then to find out that dual and archery where just standard really put the bore to me when thinking about a warrior. They have a good skillset but lack being anything special besides picking locks.



Ranger is something I wish I could undo, was a waste of a point and spec slot.

[.Raven.rpg]

Good job on rouge

I find Leliana to be most useful after me

Scatter shot,arrow of slaying and bard songs

[herwin1]

--What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?



Rogue is my favourite class, mostly because it deals with the world more flexibly than the other two classes and allows me to behave intelligently.



--Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?



Rogues tend to be vulnerable in fights.



--What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?



Bard and Duelist are my favourites.



--What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?



Bard, task-oriented stuff.

[Khayness]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
I love everything about it. Their skills are useful and awesome, combat wise they are very entertaining, you can develop different playstyles with it.
Dislike: well maybe too many useful skills, too few skillpoints to spend

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
Pretty underpowered at start, but gets all right around midgame, and a real stabby stabby killing machine with the combat stealthing and many stuns avaliable.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
Played with Assasin so far. Needed the points to get the class and dual weapon master achievements, so only had points to spend on that tree. But not being dumb about combat mechanics, I'll have to say it's the most appealing to my playing style after reading the descriptions of the others. Haven't played ranger, but seems pretty useless compared to the other three.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
All of the class trees are useful, except feign death. By the time I got point to spend on it, I have become way powerful to need that. Dual wielding beats archery for me.

Modifié par Khayness, 23 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[Graciemae]

I find it rather odd that so many people want classes other than rogue to have lockpick/disarm traps skills. The game is designed so that you cannot have everything at once, you have to choose which skillsets you wish to add to your party at any given time by changing chars within the party. You are able to have one of each main class (fighter/rogue/warrior) and space for one other, thus doubling up in one class. I don't see why anyone would want to take 2 warriors, 2 mages (for instance) then complain they can't disarm traps. I've played through 5 times now and have found no problem in that area, especially as I haven't found any chests containing anything useful which can't be opened with low level skill. As for doors, the important ones have keys anyway.



I'm wondering if people are going to start asking for classes other than healer to have the revival ability!

[godlike13]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

I like how there like the renaissance men of the team, lock picking, traps, stealth, ect...

Didn't like the fighting as them.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

not really

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

Like them all, very balanced. It allowed for them to be good party supporters or focused fighters.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

Liked duel wielding and lock picking, didn't like the Below the Belt Tree


Overall i liked the rouges, defintly always had to have one in my party, but they weren't my favorite to play as. Found mages and warriors to be more fun, especially when fighting.

Modifié par godlike13, 23 janvier 2010 - 08:33 .

[tallon1982]

Likes:  Stealth, lock picking

Dislikes: That pickpocketing is another skill tree. To me if you're a Rogue you should have that skill looped in with lock picking.

Favorite Specs: Duelist/Assassin or Assassin/Bard

Underpowered or overpowered: Nothing really came to mind. Some cooldowns annoyed me at times.

Least Favorite Spec: Ranger had potential but it sort of felt like a let down. To me it was like giving a Rogue a mage shapeshifting spell. Just doesn't work. When I think of Ranger I was thinking hunter class.

Tree talents: Dual wielding was always a must for me. Steath and lock picking were always maxed as well. I don't think I could have lived without those. The feigning death was just too weird. I think steathing works better to drop the hate on you to someone else.

[reiksmarshal]

Pick pocketing was a waste for the most part, I think it would be better if you get caught picking pockets and the town watch will come after you or the victim tries to attack you.

[Tapkoh]

Likes: The options. You could go especially stealthy, more party-oriented support as opposed to solo, or function as the party handyman opening/disarming things, among other roles. Backstab is a plus.



Dislikes: They can take a while to get going especially if you try to do more than one thing, more so than the other classes I think, but it's not terrible. Having so many rogue talents was a nice counterbalance to only having two combat talent groups, but most of them were not that useful; a lot was filler to get to better stuff.



Over/underpowered: I think they're just fine in this regard. I only found problems when trying to use them as a warrior, which they obviously aren't.



Specializations: Most favorite would be assassin. Those talents were all useful to me, whereas duelist had stuff I didn't use and bard even less so. Ranger would be my least favorite just because summons disappear between load areas. That combined with a long cooldown made it rather annoying. I do really like the idea behind ranger and all that, but that little bit just irks me. Otherwise, I'd say bard.



Talent trees: It's hard to say too much for certain since it largely depends on what I want to do with a particular rogue. I don't particularly like any of them as a whole. I find just 3 talents usually useful and those are (in order) lethality, coup de grace, and combat movement. If you wanted to go straight numbers then I guess it's the dirty fighting line that's my favorite and deft hands that's my least. Stealth is nice to have in some situations, but not necessary. Deft hands is nice, but the more you boost cunning, the more useless that tree becomes.

[Lady Olivia]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

Rogue is my favortie class because it's so versatile: you can play as an archer, as a fighter, as a thief, and on top of it all, cunning makes you learn faster and have additional dialog.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on
the Rogue?

Underpowered? No. But they are a bit too quick in combat. I'm guessing any character with high enough dexterity is, but rogue is the most likely to push dexterity so high. Their attacks get so fast it starts looking rirdulous.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least
favorite?

Fovorite: duelist. It's neat and subtle. Least favortie: ranger. Somehow it doesn't fit with the class at all. I'd rather see a mage conjuring animals than a rogue. It's just out of place.

[vortican]

I had a lot more fun playing as a dual-wield rogue vs. sword and shield warrior. I don't particularly like the class-specific overlaps skills like dual-wield as I feel it takes away from the uniqueness of each class but I'm not sure how to resolve that. The rogue-specific side quests were cool and gave it a feeling that the class was special, as opposed to warrior where there are... none.



I didn't use ranger but dualist really didn't do much for me either. Assassin was definitely cool and I can see the bard class being fun as well, especially if you become an archer. Archers are totally underpowered compared to other classes and dual-wield really tears it up. I can't say it's overpowered because rogues are weak enough that warriors and mages can still wipe the floor with them if you're not careful. The same can not be said for mage, which is in my opinion, way over-powered.



Lock bash is really a skill that needs to be added as rogues are necessary to get anywhere with chests and some quests can't be completed without a high lockpicking skill. I'd also like to see solo rogue quests that depend on stealth. Crime Wave was decent but it could have been so much better. I didn't use Zev or Leilani at all, even when I was a warrior. Even though their personalities were cool, they just weren't as useful for some reason. I think Zev's abilities were a little too diversified and Leilani suffered just from being an archer.



Overall, the rogue class is very fun and could be awesome with just a few minor tweaks. More opportunities and uses for stealth, give archery a boost and restrict some of the assassination quests to the rogue class.

[MoeIII]

Ranger allows my party to use a critter to trigger (from a safe distance) all of those 'get into the middle of the room, and then get rushed' traps that you guys seem addicted to.    Also, I can then center my AoE attacks on said critter, thus getting around the overhead map limitations.

*I* enjoy the heck out of doing that little bit of game subversion, but perhaps that was not the intent of the specialization? 

[kasanza]

Like: Nearly everything. Seriously, all the extra xp from disarming traps and opening doors and chest is awesome. Being a dagger/dagger cunning (up to a natural 60 or 70 with the rest thrown into dex) rogue is so crazy powerful when you use deathroot poison and paralyze rune your blades.



Dislike: The stealing successes that yield no reward save success rate. Beyond brutal!



Under/overpowered: I think they are perfectly balanced. They are so fragile when your careless with your tactics, yet when played well deal the most DPS by far. That's how it should be.



Specializations and talents:



most: Dual Wield top row and bottom row. I take 2 of the top spots and get momentum early. Also Coup de grace and lethality as soon as possible and your on your way to fun times. The assasin like is ok for the first two talents but the latter two aren't all that necessary until you have extra talent points to spare. Duelist for the extra attack bonus early on nightmare helps immensely, and later for the keen defense.

Least: The second line of dual wield is a little to stamina-intensive for my rogue builds so seems wasteful. Feign Death is only good against elite bosses since you can't stealth (or maybe while taking DoTs). Ranger would be cooler if your rogue whistled and the critter came a runnin' instead of summoning it. Maybe you could only use spiders inside, bears in certain outdoors environments and the same with wolves. the bard stuff I've never used with main character so I didn't experience it's true potential (since my Leliana had rather low cunning).



All and all, this class is pretty much set.

[icefiresmurf]

Midnight Voyager wrote...

MonkeyChief117 wrote...

First off i'm on the xbox . . .
. . . so archery is a complete waste of time when compared with mages and warriors . . .
. . . apart from the fact that only rogues can open locks/ disarm traps, meaning i have to take Zev/Lel with me wherever i go if i want to experience the game properly. Considering there are so many characters, wasting one of my 3 slots with a rogue limits your experience of the game.

PLEASE fix the archery and give warriors the option to smash locks in DA2. Apart from that, DAO is a fantastic game - cheers bioware.

Why on earth is rogue = archer?

becuase the have the build for them maybe

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?
[/list]I like the sneakiness, the (eventual) off-tanking option of stealthing in, killing someone before they can do anything, activating dual striking or momentum and going to town as everyone else surrounds me. hopefully my dodging in that situation only gets better later in the game. I like the utility, and for the most part I like all the specializations. Overall, probably the balanced class and fun to play, once you figure out a good way to play them.
     But, I do have nitpicks. I don't like how you have to spread the points rather thin. I remember others saying that there's several skills that make sense (coercion, trap / poison-making, survival, and combat tactics to a lesser extent), so you need to plan who gets what in your party, since you'll never get your PC to have all those. Archery is still one of the weakest things in the game IMO, though I haven't gotten too high in the talents. It is a little better for rogues, though, since you can stealth to a good vantage point, hopefully get a crit to start with, and you can pick up more things to boost crit chance and / or damage. I agree with the lack-of-variety-for-armor complaints. I forget who said it, but hoods, cloaks, and being somewhat stylish as you slice off a hurlock's head would be cooler then what we have now. Feign Death and that Evasion 1-in-5 ability seem kinda pointless for top tier talents, although I haven't even had the option of getting them yet.

Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?
[/list]Overall, it feels quite balanced.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?
[/list]Assassin is my favorite. A good first ability so you can pick up assassin at lvl 7 and not be too horribly punished is nice. I guess I like the others, but I have small nitpicks about them. Duelist doesn't feel like a specialization, just an extension of a rogue. Ranger / Bard is probably the way to go for an archer build, but the spider and bear I've read are apparantly useless. Lel is really the only bard I've had so far, and she's usually the only rogue I have in the party, so I was usually getting up lockpicking instead of her bard abilities. they all seem fine, though. The too-many-abilities, not-enough-points problem needs a mention, again.

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?
[/list]Like DW warriors, they can get rather scary in combat with twin daggers. DW is my fav, but the rest are cool. once again, too many abilities, not enough points (to an extent).

In summary, the one balanced class, and I only have nitpicks, no massive issues with me. But the armor variety is lacking (hoods and cloaks please!), archery in general needs to be improved, and it's annoying to have to get rank 3 lockpicking instead of riposte (or something similar).

Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 23 janvier 2010 - 10:58 .

[SCIENTI5T]

* What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

I like most of what's implemented but I wish there was more division between fighter and thief and bard. My main is a human noble duelist-assassin and I don't really want him involved in picking locks or stealing. I want a lightly armoured fighter - high on dex not strength so much. Other than that I don't want any thiefiness except maybe stealth. I can see the link with the Rogue specialties but I wish you could get further from an old school thief. Also they're not much different in performance except for a special ability here or there like Bard songs, summons... I would personally like to divide them more. Say in combat, looking at melee vs backstab, I would like it to be noticeable in performance so melee best to worst would go - duelist > ranger > bard > assassin; backstab would go assassin > ranger > bard > duelist.

* Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Not so much. I hear complaint that dual daggers is overpowered but I don't know about that. Contrary to my class division arguments I wish there was more crossover of weapons available. Actually just a bunch more weapons would be nice - short swords, sabres, scimitars, spears. I miss those.

* What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

In order duelist > assassin > ranger > bard. I love the first two.

Rangers: I love except animal summons. I can deal with magic summoning but this seems like it should be their woodland buddies coming to their aid but you can summon a bear underwater or in a castle. That ruins it for me. I'd like it if you got a bunch of local animals come instead.

Bards: I like as a catch-all class but I would like it to have more flexibilty with choice of spells. Maybe a choice of bard, elements, spirit or healing trees.

* What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

For me the only one I don't like is the Ranger summons. That said, I'd like more diversity from paths not everyone can get into. Maybe if each specialization had two or three branches...

Modifié par SCIENTI5T, 23 janvier 2010 - 11:56 .

[Argia]

I believe that those who state that the dual weilding daggers are overpowered are not playing on nightmare-level difficulty. I have played  Mages, Rogues, and Warrior classes on nightmare-level and Rogue is, by far, the most difficult to play efectively at this level.   With the other classes i found it quite easy to lead with the main character (mage OR warrior) and have the other classes support my strategies.  So far, at the most-difficult level, this has been very difficult with the rogue, who has insufficent DPS to make up for his poor armor.  

ARMOR REQUIREMENTS
One thing that i think would help is to have DEX (or perhaps cunning) as the attribute to govern the use of higher grades of leather/ studded leather armors.  This makes sense from the perspective of Balance and can easilly be rationalized.  Everyone needs willpower to activate their abilities (mana/stamina). Other than than a mage can focus on one stat, Magic... a warrior can focus on two: Strength and Dex, or strength and Con... But a rouge rapidly becomes a weak jack of all trades by spreading stats among Strength Dex, Cunning, and Willpower... the lower stats hurt the rogue more on nightmare-difficulty where they just don't do do damage sufficently fast to avoid death while leading the party. It would help the balance, if they only had to focuson two prime stats like the other classes... rather than three...

In terms of rationale, leather does not offer complete coverage like full plate... Even hardened leather would not offer as much protection as "Iron" chain...  Leather is an active armor... the wearer hopes to recieve blows on the thickest pads or recieve some deflection of the blow... either dexterity or cunning would be reasonable atributes to govern the use of better leathers... as better leathers would be Lighter and require more skill to use. Do consider altering the requirement for advanced leathers to be cunning or Dex-based.

ROGUE SKILLS 
Some of the skills bought by rogues should "auto-level" after being purchased. Lock-pick and stealth are among the combat skills in the rogue tree... choosing  to be good at these at expense of lower combat utility is a major hamstring to customizing a rogue character.  However, if these are just moved to the skills tree (with pickpocket, survival, poison, etc) then advancement will be slowed. Not sure at this point how much influence this would have on character development yet... perhaps just make more boxes easier to pick---OR increase the rewards for picking difficult chests... it takes an awfull lot of "Deep Mushrooms" to make make high lockpicking a worthy investment...
my suggestion is not to worry so much about having LOTS of USEFUL items in difficult locked chests because the players that invested in the skills to pick difficult  locks have lost some other aspect of combat efficency... maybe it is good to have a stack of fire arrows or ice arrows in them... or some thing that can be sold for lots of money. So far, the rewards of picking difficult locks are usually (a few exceptions) dissapointing...

The merits of theft are of little use (unless you use them as part or the denerim crime wave) and  certainly they do not make up for an otherwise weaker character.  Yet this should be the halmark of a good rogue... steal evidence of X, Y, Z...

Also, you get exp for picking locks... why not for picking pockets?

Rogue Crowd Control Skills!  One of the things that lets you lead into combat with a mage or warrior are their ability to control the field of battle. If lock picking and stealth are removed from the rogue skill tree... replace them with crowd control. maybe add an expendible ingredient (smoke, dust, flash powder, darkness, etc). Something Like dirty fighting for groups.  If we are swashbucklers... give us a "flamboyant swathe" with our light weapons to both injure a cluster of foes and give them pause (hesitation) before they assult the infamous grey warden... what about a nice fake out (feint?)...  (how about some rapiers for light "piercing weapons?")

I do really like the Leathality skill's use of cunning... lets see some more creative use of cunning to make rogues more... well rogue-like... esp. in their use CC...

ARCHERY 
Archery is the great equilizer. It is the means by which even peasants could drop armored foes.  Yet, in DAO, it is both weak and slow.  I love the use of bows in most games... including Baulders Gate(S)... I think one way to improve archery is to let dexterity influence the rate of fire for ranged weapons. this would be in addition to DEX's influence on damage but perhaps as a lesser influence--or let dex influence fire rate and cunning and dex influence damage--something... bows need to be a viable path for game play... Some bows probably should have a STR requirement as well... these would be slow strong bows prefered by warriors...

Another improvement might be to have mage's frost/flame weapons AND POISON work on bows. Also,  why not put runes on ranged weapons? We have magic bows of the dalish that increase rate of fire... why not toss in some runes.  Honestly, there is no reason that a bow should not do a ton of damage--
but the best skills are SOOO SLOW to use. This is uneccissary because they have a re-use timer AND they use stamina... there are only so many times you can use a skill in a fight no matter how powerful the technique is. 

It seems to me that fixing archery  (i.e., making archery a skill that a lead character can actually use to effectively lead into a fight--and make the game fun)  is down to two items... allow the damage to be augmented by other skills... and allow a DEX-based modification of fire rate as well as damage.

my 2-cents for rogue class feed back for now.

[Kileyan]

My biggest dislike about rogues was that none of the activated skills would work with stealth/backstab. Just seems very wrong that activated attacks are actually a drop in damage.

[mslc123]

I dislike the fact that I spent 400g or so on my rogues gear and none of it has a unique skin. There are multiple unique looks for heavy armor, and next to nothing for light armor... Also the leather helmets make you look like you're wearing a condom on your head. Also cadash stompers are the ugliest leather boots ever.

Please patch in new looks for items like Felons Coat, I don't feel like much of an assassin wearing a baby blue and pink leather jacket...

Modifié par mslc123, 24 janvier 2010 - 12:31 .

[DRMhaeric]

1. What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?



Like: Versatility. I like having a Rogue in my party for several reasons and they're quite helpful.

Dislike: Too much like a Warrior-lite in combat. Their out of combat versatility doesn't carry over into combat well. Their usefulness out of combat makes them a necessity however, so I often end up feeling like I'm having to sacrifice a character slot in combat to get their out of combat usefulness.



2. Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?



Underpowered: Their weapon talents are pretty much the same as the Warrior with a couple of differences in style because of backstabbing and the Rogue/Warrior tree differences. Something unique here would be nice.

Overpowered: Can't really think of anything here... they can be damage machines, but are easily killed if they gain aggro so I think that balances nicely.



3. What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?



Favourite: Bard. This is the specialization I tend to give all my rogues.

Least Favourite: I waffle between Duelist and Ranger. Duelist is okay, but nothing flashy. Again, it goes back to being a warrior-lite. I want to like Ranger because I love the concept of having pets, but half the time I forget to recast the summon after an area transition and having to micromanage the pet's special abilities in order for them to be used is a pain. This would be easier to manage if there was a hotkey to select the pet as the active character. Being able to set tactics for them would be nice as well.



4. What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?



Favourite: Since rogues only have one unique to them... the Rogue tree. Especially the lethality line.

Least Favourite: Archery. This isn't that bad of a tree, its just lackluster. That said, its still the one I tend to pick when playing a rogue since my preferred playstyle in general is to hang out on the edge of combat and focus my efforts where needed. Faster activation of special shots and/or more variety of them to help manage the battle from the sidelines would go a long way here.

[StrawberryViking]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

   Like:

• I personally liked the fact that my rogue PC, was an asset to the group, being able to pick locks and whatnot, and while annoying for the the other classes, I liked this. Also, towards the end of the game with those one-shot kill grunt darkspawn, I would always love to stealth into the middle of the group, unstealth; they would rush in, and once I got a sufficient amount surronding me, I would use Whirlwind (a god-send), and I could easily take out most of the group.
• Also, I liked the fact that the rogue class was very versatile, and you could easily have a ranged or melee work with this class.
• Being able to take out most of the enemies before they know what hit them (only towards the end of the game)

  Dislike: 

• I know a lot if people have said this already but, THE ARMOR. It makes absolutely no sense to have a rogue sneaking around wearing some leather armor the color of varieties of cotton candy. Not to mention I tire of seeing my make PC's thunder thighs. I spend all of my money buying some armor, expecting the variety I saw in warrior  armor, only to get some weird pink armor with a faux six-pack imprint <--- something I hate with a burning passion). Those stupid leather helms looked like a diaphram for the head, and it made sense with the whole leather theme, but that's where it ends. It does not really relate to the rogue class as a whole. I would never wear the helmets because they were that ugly. It could be worse though (i.e. mages conehead hats (which I personally think was an inside joke for the designers))
• Like the mage class, it sort of sucks in the beginning, and not until you get some of the better abilities do you start to feel useful.
• I think I waste points by investing in lockpicking, as it has no use in combat, and the game assumes that you're playing a rogue, and there are many missed oppurtunities in the beginning.
• Also, choosing the archery path was not rewarding at all, aside from the fact that I took out half the enemies without them noticing. I hang back and shoot stuff, but I eventually find myself switching to my melee weapons and joining in on the heat of the battle. I do think it needs improving, something that makes being purely supportive rewarding. Some archery kill-shot animation or something that makes investing in the archery skill-tree actually worthwhile.
• Except for in the beginning, I really found no use for stealing. I thought that I would get some reactions out of some of my party members, especially when I was stealing from certain impoverished people, and I was surprised to find that there was no consequences for doing this, especially in a game that prides itself on moral dilemas.
• When I fail at stealing, all I get is a slap on the wrist type comment, which I do not think is enough, because I know if I caught someone stealing I would be slapping a lot more than their wrist.
• Finally (I know, filled with complaints), I wish that you could make more use of disguises in the game. There was only one instance I remember disguising in the game, and I would have liked to see more of it, as it seems to be a very rouge-ish type talent, and I think it would be very neat. <-- I really like this idea

 Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

   Underpowered:

•  Bows- If you're going to make a weapon that makes you feel left out, you minus well make it pretty awesome. I hated how I could not enchant my bows, and though the special arrows kind of made up for it, I didn't think it made sense to have the arrows be limited, as the normal arrows are unlimited, and you could just as easily light a normal arrow on fire and it be the same. My point being that special arrows should be sustained, or at least notify me when I've run out.

   Overpowered:

• Dual wielding swords/axes/maces- Though not necessarily a bad thing, I like to think of it as a reward for being so useless in the beginning. Once you get to some of those nice talents is when you really start to become damage-dealing beast. Though if you are not smart in building your stats (as many people were), you can end up with a pretty useless rogue. I myself had to start over halfway through my first playthrough because I did not know what the hell I was doing and as a resulted ended up with a pretty gimped up rogue who died every other battle. But if you actually know what you're doing then you can become the main damage-dealer.

What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

   Favorite: 

• Assassin: As everyone is aware, assassin is probably the most useful specialization. Not only does it make sense, but I can actually see the difference. Not to mention that Mark of Death is a god-send in boss battles, not only because it benefits you, but your party members can take advantage of the effects as well.
• Ranger: I know a lot of people have been hating on this specialization, and though I'm not exactly a fan of it, I still use it. I like the fact that it's blatantly obvious the difference the summons make in battle, but it is also obvious that this specialization is lacking. I would have liked to see a better variety in the summons, and especially in the deep roads, I would get confused as my spider looked no different than the spiders it was attacking (which seemed wrong, you know, the pig eating pork sort-of deal) Summoning them seemed out of place for a rogue, and it seemed more of a mage sort of deal. It would have been neat to summon local animals to your aide, and it varied by area, like if you were in a castle, you could summon rats or something to swarm enemies. At least it would sort of make sense.

   Least Favorite:

• Bard: If you can't tell already, I don't like feeling useless, and this is the mother of all uselessness (to me at least). I felt pretty useless standing there singing like it was some sort of American idol audition , while my allies are having all the fun in their bloodbath. I really didn't notice the difference in battle except for when I used captivating song, but I felt it was lacking, and you can still sing while you hack and slash at darkspwan, right? 

  

What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite? 

Favorite:

• Dual Weaon: Of course! Without this I would not love the rogue class. Some of the abilities I did not use, but there are some that are essential to my rogue, like the sustained ability momentum, and whirlwind 

Least Favorite

• Archery: Another given, archery as a whole seems to be lacking, I found that the only abilities I seemed to be using were rapid shot and arrow of slaying. 

In Conclusion:
I know I put a lot more criticism than praise, but I love this class to death, and there are some things that definately need improving.

Hopefully I didn't rant, and it wasn't too long.

Modifié par StrawberryViking, 31 janvier 2010 - 05:45 .

[TanithAeyrs]

What do you like and dislike about the Rogue?

Rogue is my favorite class, its versatility allows you to build almost any kind of character you want. I wish there was a way to set tactics to look for backstabs but the programing is probably too complex. Also I have had tactics glitches trying to get my rogues to automatically poison their weapons. Both minor complaints and easily overcome by a little micromanagement. I do like the tactics option- as a veteran of BG 1 and 2 it is nice change to be able to do a little less micromanagement.





Is there anything that you feel that is underpowered or overpowered on the Rogue?

Archery is underpowered compared to dual wield. I usually stick too 2 daggers or a longsword and a dagger for stylistic reasons. I am now running my first true archery rogue and at least in the early game she needs a lot of backup. I suspect that will change- Leliana is usually pretty awesome by end game.





What are your favorite Rogue specializations? What are your least favorite?

I have used them all. I usually pick them up as part of roleplaying my character so I use Duelist a lot. I don't use Assassin as much, not because it is not a good spec, it just doesn't fit for my characters.





What are your favorite Rogue talent trees? What are your least favorite?

General rogue talents, followed by dual wield tree. I usually max stealth- one of my favorites and lock picking is a must. I like my dual wield rogues to get riposte early and I try to build up to whirlwind as fast as I can on the dual weapon sweep tree. Punisher is also extremely effective when you really need to do some damage. Dual weapon Mastery is my least used talent- I don't like dual wielding two full sized weapons for style reasons (stamina cost reduction is a nice perk, but I would rather have Master stealth or Evasion). On the Archery tree I try to build up to Arrow of Slaying as quickly as possible. Pinning shot is probably my most used talent in the archery tree (stuns enemies and has a quick cool down).

[phrenicb]

Likes:
Rogue's are extremely flexible and very entertaining to play.  I love that by end game you can become an absolute beast with dual weild when you play smart but prone to quick deaths when you are not.  The result is an experience that is far more tactical in nature instead of of the usual mathematical approach for min-maxing or twich reflex for action games.

Dislikes:
Bows seem rather boring to me in general, occasionally useful, but once you have a few points in stealth you can usually accomplish more by starting the fight behind enemy spell casters and cutting them down with two daggers.

Really, the main things that I dislike are interface issues.  Stealing has two flaws that make it essentially unusable. 

• The only way I can justify putting 4 points into stealing is if I could pretty much rob every town blind.  I tried this on a later playthrough, but found the experience quite tedious.  You can't be caught, but you have to wait 10 seconds - there is nothing "fun" about it.
• It is rather absurd that you can't see what you just stole. Yes, you can go into the inventory and sort by "newest" - but stackable items are hard to spot - and the theft-timer is frozen while you check.

Underpowered:
Not by level 8-9.  Early on you are either a weak warrior or a completely gimped lock picker.  But by the time your done with Lothering, you can hold your own.  However, archer may be problematic.  I'm not sure a rogue archer is any way better than a warrior archer.  (This is a guess though - as I've never played either for every long).

Overpowered:
Not really.  A mistake with a rogue costs you much more than a mistake with a warrior.

Specializations:

•     Assassin and dualist: Potent, but not necessarily fun (if I had to complain).
•     Bard: Very useful, very fun.
•     Ranger: From a tactical standpoint, the pet is fantastic.  So many potentially difficult battles become easy when you send in the pet first.  The pet dies, but you still have 4 characters blasting away.  Potions and healing spells both take away from DPS, so having a pet to sacrifice means quick kills with very little damage to the part.  Two DPS mages, Shale, DPS Rogue and the sacrificial pet is a nasty combo. I did not like the absurdity of the pet disappearing between locations.  Worse - the recast timer starts when you get to the new area, which means you will have to do without if combat starts right away.  That bear followed me 400 miles across the continent just fine, but then disappeared on me the instant I walked through a door?  That did drive me bonkers.

Talent Trees:

• Rogue Combat: I found all useful, at least at times, except for feign death.
• Rogue Utility: The lockpicking/trap disarming talent line was rather boring.  It would have been nice if you ended up with bonuses along the way.  For instance - the ability to find a bit more gold in a chest or a better "understanding" of items to get better prices. The first two levels of stealth are throw away.  And - I hated stealth until I hit the warden's keep.  Once you can speed along, it became much more playable.
• Archer: Honestly, I saw no benefit to an archer rogue over an archer warrior. 
• Dual Wield: riposte is fantastic, as are the passives and Momentum.  The rest are sort of useless due to the inability to employ them as a backstab.  Wirlwind was useless until the very end - it's actually nice to use against that zerg-rush of one-hit kills.

All in all, I felt it was well done - with stealing and disappearing ranger pets the only aspects that have detracted from the overall enjoyability of the game.