25 réponses à ce sujet

[DaySeeker]

 SO, Legion, geth hunting you down, possible squadmate.  I was thinking about him and was struck by how interesting a character he could be.  Imagine knowing and rebelling against your creator (perhaps viewed by them as captor or keeper).  I do not remember if we got specific info on the geth's first steps towards sentinence.  I know Tali's people created the geth.  The geth appear to be mostly mindless killing machines in ME1, but there was that scene of the two bodies in front of an altar (?), so who were they worshiping?  The Reapers?  A Quarian?  A geth savior?  Whichever a sign of advanced evolution as they have moved beyond "we are" and moved to "why are we."  Legion seems to have moved beyond even that into "I am.  I desire.  I strive to..."

I wonder how the geth view the quarians and imagine a meeting between him and Tali interesting.  He would be quite literally facing his creator.  Which brings me back to my original point, meeting your maker.  No matter what your religion, gods and goddesses run the gamut from benevolent through indifferent all the way to malevolent, they are parental, jealous, capricious, demanding.   Of course we, as human beings attribute human traits and motivations to our dieties- how else can we comprehend them, but in the case of the Geth their creators are human(ish).  SO how they view the quarians and if they view something beyond and greater than the quarians it invites an interesting dialogue on the divine.  Thoughts?

[NICKjnp]

A Quarian created the geth.

[LumpOfCole]

In the latest "epic" trailer, there's a shot of Tali holding a gun to Legion.

[BlackwindTheCommander]

I'm assuming the later generations of Geth were created on planet beyond the Veil. Machines naturallly (hehe, naturally) adapt and eveolve quicker then organics and such. So it makes sense that legion would be self aware and rebelious even though the Geth have only been around alittle over 3 centuries.

[Console Cowboy]

the Geth worship the Reapers; i always assumed that's what the altar was about. they warred with and almost annihilated the Quarians so i don't imagine they hold much reverence for them. either way that'd be a pretty heavy conversation for Tali, don't you think? what do you say to the bastard progeny of your people?

[foxtrotcharlie]

Tali/Legion romance, ftw. lol, but seriously, the Tali and Legion confrontation is definitely going to be one of the most memorable scenes in the ME trilogy. I hope that Tali will eventually accept Legion as an ally.

[AngryFrozenWater]

The initial Geth were created by the quarians, but later generations reproduced and improved themselves. So, chances are that there is no creator of Legion other than one or more Geth.

[DaySeeker]

Console Cowboy wrote...

the Geth worship the Reapers; i always assumed that's what the altar was about. they warred with and almost annihilated the Quarians so i don't imagine they hold much reverence for them. either way that'd be a pretty heavy conversation for Tali, don't you think? what do you say to the bastard progeny of your people?

True, but many religions have rebellions against gods, Lucifer vs. Jehovah, Zeus vs. Chronos.  There are also many books who take as their conflict man vs. god.  

Was it made clear that all geth worship the Reapers, or that any of them do, or are they allies with a common goal?  

I am curious about what we will learn about them and who they are.  Also curious about people's theories on them.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I also cannot imagine that all geth are evil. They are supposed to be intelligent and capable of creative and independent thought. That means there is a chance that some might be aware that they are indoctrinated by their religion (maybe given to them indirectly by the reapers?) or that they have become aware that they have to fight the reapers to survive. Sovereign wasn't exactly a fan of the geth. Maybe some of them understood what was going on and Legion was one of them.

[Jared_704]

The Geth in ME1 definently worship the reapers. I think they're smart enough to realize (as the AI on the citadel did on ME1) that all organics just want to use them as tools, so they most likely don't hold the quarians in high regard. Although as Geth are able to evolve and break away from the masses they might worship other things than the Reapers.

[AngryFrozenWater]

How about geth disappearing from the galaxy just like the other races? The geth would have a reason to fight alongside Shepard.

[Loop Stricken]

Jared_704 wrote...
Although as Geth are able to evolve and break away from the masses they might worship other things than the Reapers.

No. So far that's just Legion.

[AngryFrozenWater]

According to modern theories there is no reason why AI cannot be good or evil. What they think now is that you cannot program that behavior. But there is also no reason to assume that all AIs are either evil or good. That bothers me a bit in ME. Also the 3 robotic laws are considered fiction now.

Oddly enough a current scientific theory describing this phenomenon is called Friendly artificial intelligence.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:41 .

[DaySeeker]

It's completely possible that there are different factions of geth or when the Reaper was destryoed by Shep's crew the reaper's hold was weakened by the geth in that area allowing rebellion or at least questioning.

In human evolution, as we grew less dependent on the environment, more in control of life and death (through medicine and technology) our view of higher powers moved from infant/parent (we don't understand you, but we know you have power over us, please be nice) to a sort of adolesence (You are like us only more powerful and you're not always the boss of me), to a sort of mentor/sage (grant us wisdom and guidance). It seems the geth could be following a similar route with the Reapers.

Modifié par DaySeeker, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:38 .

[LucidStrike]

Jared_704 wrote...

Although as Geth are able to evolve and break away from the masses they might worship other things than the Reapers.

"...or worship nothing," says the secular humanist.

Anyway, it's presumptuous to assume all the Geth worshipped the Reapers. Hell, I wouldn't even assume that everyone in Vatican City is even a theist.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:37 .

[DaySeeker]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

According to modern theories there is no reason why AI cannot be good or evil. What they think now is that you cannot program that behavior. But there is also no reason to assume that all AIs are either evil or good. That bothers me a bit in ME. Also the 3 robotic laws are considered fiction now.

Oddly enough the current scientific theory describing this phenomenon is called Friendly artificial intelligence.

That is very cool.  I never heard of that.  Thanks for posting it.

[Arrtis]

Id like to imagine legion is one of the initial geth to become a true AI.Then over the years hes been improving himself and evolved a little again.

[DaySeeker]

LucidStrike wrote...

Jared_704 wrote...

Although as Geth are able to evolve and break away from the masses they might worship other things than the Reapers.

"...or worship nothing," says the secular humanist.

Anyway, it's presumptuous to assume all the Geth worshipped the Reapers. Hell, I wouldn't even assume that everyone in Vatican City is even a theist.

Very true, but then humans are not sure who or what made their existence possible whereas the geth could be completely aware of that fact.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Ace of Anton wrote...

no matter how advanced an AI is (or may appear to be), it can not "evolve" outside of its programmed parameters. It wouldn't even want to. An AI is simply a computer simulation of real life, and a computer simulation is only what it was made to be and nothing more. so there must have been some outside force that created Legion.

i guess we'll find out when he's in our squad and we gain his loyalty...

Obviously you have no concept of what the word "AI" means in the year 2500 within the Mass Effect universe.  The devs have stated that the geth have been evolving and there have been separatist factions within the geth that hold seperate ideals and have more individualistic behavior.

Don't grossly overthink it by applying current world/technology understanding and definitions to this piece of fiction.

Also, don't underestimate current science. A lot may change in a few 100 years, but some of the current stuff may persist because it is logical (proven by math) or simply cannot be falsified (yet).

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:53 .

[psychodude310]

Perhaps Legions independence was a mistake in his programming.

[OasisForever1991]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Evolution

That makes sense. What if the Geth got past a certain level of intelligence?