52 réponses à ce sujet

[CptPatch]

purplesunset wrote...
I would blame the customer for not going the extra mile to look beyond
what it says on the box to see what they're really getting into, but
companies know that impulse buying works in their favor, so they do
whatever they can to actively encourage impulse buying.

But wouldn't this require the consumer to be prescient?  Collector Editions usually must be ordered in advance.  If it is advertised as "contains soundtrack" one _assumes_ (yeah, yeah.  You, me. Got it.) that that would be the entire soundtrack. 

How is the consumer supposed to know in advance that the entire soundtrack wasn't there?

If you already know just which songs are in the game, all of them, and then check the list of songs that are _actually_ in the CE, then he is at least aware that he is NOT getting everything there is to be had.

1. Does the CE list which songs are on the soundtrack?  Was there _anywhere_ that info could be gotten before having the CE in your hands?
2. When and where was the ENTIRE list of songs in the game listed?  Was that list available _anywhere_ before the CE was released?

If a manufacturer deliberately sells only half of something initially, with the intention of selling you the whole thing later, that is pointedly sleazy.  It may be _technically_ in the realm of truthtelling, but it's still cheesy at best.  It would like being sold a car, only to discover it has no engine.  When you point out that there's no engine, the salesman says, "Well, you didn't ask.  Had you asked, _of course_ I would have told you.  But if you need an engine for your car, well, you'll just have to pay extra for it."

[Okay.  Now I'm just waiting for someone to suggest that the buyer should have taken a test drive.  Come on; I''m ready for you.]

[purplesunset]

CptPatch wrote...
.....

If you had read my entire post, you would have seen that I was actually defending the consumer from the accusation that they were entirely to blame for what happened.

I put that bit at the end, to warn them to be more careful in the future.

[Carn Dum]

I posted about this just when the bigger version of the soundtrack was released:

http://social.biowar.../9/index/425280

There was no way of knowing for us that the soundtrack included with the CE was not the full soundtrack. It's the normal thing to do that when they sell a soundtrack as part of some product, it is the full version of it. In any event, it's not the sort of move that creates any trust for future purchases :/

Modifié par Carn Dum, 22 janvier 2010 - 10:02 .

[Wishpig]

Christ... these forums have reached a bad point in their existence. I've seen it on allot of forums. It's the point where there has been so much bashing on the game, and bashing of EA that forum goers are sick of it and respond to such posts fairly angryly. This understandible but bad when a legit issue comes up. Everyonce in a long while devs and higher-ups ACTUALLY listen to the fans. It's rare but it does happen. Letting the community know about issues, big and small, can only help.

Carn Dum wrote...

I posted about this just when the bigger version of the soundtrack was released:

http://social.biowar.../9/index/425280

There was no way of knowing for us that the soundtrack included with the CE was not the full soundtrack. It's the normal thing to do that when they sell a soundtrack as part of some product, it is the full version of it. In any event, it's not the sort of move that creates any trust for future purchases :/

Excatly. The NORMAL thing for a collectors edition to do is to come with FULL soundtrack. EA did not provide this, instead, if you want the full soundtrack, you have to rebuy a bunch of songs you already own. It may not be huge, but you know theres a good chance they were vague on purpose, trying to trick people into getting two soundtracks.

I love the game, and given it high praise. But I'm not gonna be a good little fanboy and pat EA on the back when they clearly cheat me over.

Modifié par Wishpig, 22 janvier 2010 - 12:00 .

[Carn Dum]

Wishpig wrote...

Christ... these forums have reached a bad point in their existence. I've seen it on allot of forums. It's the point where there has been so much bashing on the game, and bashing of EA that forum goers are sick of it and respond to such posts fairly angryly. This understandible but bad when a legit issue comes up. Everyonce in a long while devs and higher-ups ACTUALLY listen to the fans. It's rare but it does happen. Letting the community know about issues, big and small, can only help.

Well, that is basically why I created my original thread. I've been Bioware fan since BG1 and always have (and still do) enjoy all of their games immensely. This move felt so much un-Bioware-like to me that by posting I was hoping for some sort of word from them telling us if they really think this was a fair move to those customers that bought a special edition (and maybe assuring me they will not do something like this again in the future). I expected better from Bioware, to me it just was a pretty disappointing move from them.

[Wishpig]

Carn Dum wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Christ... these forums have reached a bad point in their existence. I've seen it on allot of forums. It's the point where there has been so much bashing on the game, and bashing of EA that forum goers are sick of it and respond to such posts fairly angryly. This understandible but bad when a legit issue comes up. Everyonce in a long while devs and higher-ups ACTUALLY listen to the fans. It's rare but it does happen. Letting the community know about issues, big and small, can only help.

Well, that is basically why I created my original thread. I've been Bioware fan since BG1 and always have (and still do) enjoy all of their games immensely. This move felt so much un-Bioware-like to me that by posting I was hoping for some sort of word from them telling us if they really think this was a fair move to those customers that bought a special edition (and maybe assuring me they will not do something like this again in the future). I expected better from Bioware, to me it just was a pretty disappointing move from them.

If your expecting bioware to respond, your barking up the wrong tree. Their partners with EA now, and I doubt their gonna rip on EA...

The best you can hope for is that one of the devs WILL take notice, realise that it's a pretty cheap marketing ploy which screws over their fans, and prevent it from happening in the future. If the Witcher has taught me anything, its that some devs really do care about doing the right thing.

Chances are this thread is pointless, but hey... the issue is better brought to light then swept under the rug, cause next thing you know... THIS becomes the norm.

[AmstradHero]

I agree that I was a bit disappointed with this. However, it was better than the Assassin's Creed 2 Collector's Edition, which came with a "soundtrack". In that case, again approximately half the soundtrack was not present, but even worse was that the soundtrack was recorded as DVD tracks, and EVEN WORSE was that the recordings were so bad that half of them distorted horribly during playback. But I digress...



I concur that it was a little disappointing to only receive a partial soundtrack for DAO, but given I already missed out on the tin box and cloth map because I "ordered from the wrong store", even though there was no indication that there were different collector's editions, it just seemed like another nail in the coffin to convince me not to buy collector's edition versions again. Which is why I haven't bothered to do so for Mass Effect 2 - having been burnt previously, I'm loathe to spend the extra money again.

[Valcutio]

Well, from now on we know to call out game companies on their forums early on when they announce a soundtrack - we'll know to ask if it's the full soundtrack or not.



Lesson learned. Fool me once.

[purplesunset]

AmstradHero wrote...
I concur that it was a little disappointing to only receive a partial soundtrack for DAO, but given I already missed out on the tin box and cloth map because I "ordered from the wrong store", even though there was no indication that there were different collector's editions, it just seemed like another nail in the coffin to convince me not to buy collector's edition versions again. Which is why I haven't bothered to do so for Mass Effect 2 - having been burnt previously, I'm loathe to spend the extra money again.

Well, they are more likely to pay  attention to a post like this one because they lost one sale for the ME 2 collector's edition.  If you had just said that you were a longtime fan who was disappointed by such an "un-Bioware-like" move (like Carn Dum said above) , and then said fullstop, your post wouldn't have mattered as much.

Modifié par purplesunset, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:00 .

[gr8mc]

it could be that at the time of production they did not have rights to publish all the songs in the soundtack and had to release a more complete version later on

[Carn Dum]

gr8mc wrote...

it could be that at the time of production they did not have rights to publish all the songs in the soundtack and had to release a more complete version later on

If that were true I would be more than happy to receive all of the tracks now. I can even given them my code to show I really did get the CE

[wonko33]

Holly crap, so melodramatic. Just call the damn thread "How come we don't get all the songs" or "The soundtrack is incomplete"

[Shoko86]

I have to admit.. I was a bit disappointed that the full tracks weren't there... but I'll survive. It's not the first CE's I've got that features the sound track but doesn't have all of it.

[DoctorPringles]

The soundtrack is a lie.



Do you guys -really- need all 35 songs? Really? How often will you listen to them?

[Daerdor]

CptPatch wrote...
...
How is the consumer supposed to know in advance that the entire soundtrack wasn't there?
...

Carn Dum wrote...
...

There was no way of knowing for us that the soundtrack included with the CE was not the full
soundtrack. It's the normal thing to do that when they sell a soundtrack as part of some product, it is the full version of it. In any event, it's not the sort of move that creates any trust for future purchases :/

The original forum thread which announced the CE and its contents contained a post by Mr. Melo which
clearly stated that the CE included a soundtrack of 18 selected tracks representing roughly a full cd's worth.
This was announced way before the full soundtrack was even released.

So yes, everyone interested in the CE was clearly informed what exactly it contained well in advance.

Modifié par Daerdor, 22 janvier 2010 - 04:41 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

you are aware that some of the songs that came with the CE aren't available on the larger album, right? there aren't any lies involved, it is just miscomprehension.

Miscomprehension? I would call it "clever" marketing.

[Baalzie]

Daerdor wrote...

CptPatch wrote...
...
How is the consumer supposed to know in advance that the entire soundtrack wasn't there?
...

Carn Dum wrote...
...

There was no way of knowing for us that the soundtrack included with the CE was not the full
soundtrack. It's the normal thing to do that when they sell a soundtrack as part of some product, it is the full version of it. In any event, it's not the sort of move that creates any trust for future purchases :/

The original forum thread which announced the CE and its contents contained a post by Mr. Melo which
clearly stated that the CE included a soundtrack of 18 selected tracks representing roughly a full cd's worth.
This was announced way before the full soundtrack was even released.

So yes, everyone interested in the CE was clearly informed what exactly it contained well in advance.

And thusly they even stated not ALL tracks were to be in there?
"Selected" means "not all" after all...
And nowhere was it stated that there would NOT be a full album with all titles on it?
Apparantly not...
So no lies then I take it...

Apart from the fact that You have to dig into forums to find said information, which I never heard anyone state as "Easily viewed facts" when not stating where to find the info in all other commercials and ads for said Edition of the game...
Makes it cheesy still, even if not outright lying...

[Querne]

I´ve got the standart version and thought about buying CE additionally, mainly because of the soundtrack.
*stops thinking about buying CE*
I can live with this cute little gameplay bits called DLC, even with the guy standing in the camp and shouting "insert coin" but finally there is a limit.

I´m sure I will survive without the music somehow.

When you buy a DVD with a film and its actually the first part of fifty what is not mentioned on the cover that might be not a lie but it is a really cheap trick. I don´t like cheap tricks. 

Modifié par Querne, 22 janvier 2010 - 05:25 .

[Tyrax Lightning]

Wishpig wrote...

If your expecting bioware to respond, your barking up the wrong tree. Their partners with EA now, and I doubt their gonna rip on EA...

Jay Leno works for NBC & he get's to rip NBC all he wants! BioWare should get to rip EA all it wants too!

[Wishpig]

Daerdor wrote...

The original forum thread which announced the CE and its contents contained a post by Mr. Melo which
clearly stated that the CE included a soundtrack of 18 selected tracks representing roughly a full cd's worth.
This was announced way before the full soundtrack was even released.

So yes, everyone interested in the CE was clearly informed what exactly it contained well in advance.

Well, first off, you can't expect people to go a check up on a forum to get this kind of information. People who bought the CE because the back of the box said it comes with the soundtrack or amazon said it comes with the soundtrack shouldn't have to go research the fact it's not really the soundtrack on some forum.

But thats not even the point, because what you pointed out doesn't apply to the problem at all. Yes they said we would be getting around 18 hand picked tracks. But I got news, soundtracks are almost always composed of hand picked tracks... otherwise soundtracks would be hours upon hours long.

We weren't informed that later a soundtrack with 30+ songs would be released... meaning you have to rebuy the songs with the CE edition if you want the full thing,


Bottom line is a person who bought the CE had no idea they would have to rebuy the songs they already got if they wanted the full soundtrack.

Personally, I say f*** it, I'm not gonna listen to the soundtrack very often, so I'm not gonna fall for EA's little sneaky trap and buy the soundtrack I should have gotten. BUT to many others who own the CE and want the soundtrack... well EA got them.

Keep in mind this is a big deal because many many many CE's come with soundtracks, take Mass Effect for example, and the 10+ soundtracks I've gotten from CE's have always been comeplete. So it is a very sneaky tactic to get people to spend even more money.

"IT'S A TRAP!"

Tyrax Lightning wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

If
your expecting bioware to respond, your barking up the wrong tree.
Their partners with EA now, and I doubt their gonna rip on EA...

Jay Leno works for NBC & he get's to rip NBC all he wants! BioWare should get to rip EA all it wants too! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

Don't even get me started on that! JAY LENO KILLED TRIUMPH THE INSULT COMIC DOG! Killed him! We never get to see him agian because of that big chinned greedy bastard!

Modifié par Wishpig, 22 janvier 2010 - 05:46 .

[CptPatch]

gr8mc wrote...

it could be that at the time of production they did not have rights to publish all the songs in the soundtack and had to release a more complete version later on

In which case, having sold the consumer "the soundtrack", isn't the manufacturer more or less obligated to send buyers an updated soundtrack, free of charge?  Like, "the soundtrack" was defective, because it only had half of the soundtrack that could actually be played.

Of course, to do so would require the manufacturer to have ethics.  This situation as it stands smacks more of the manufacturer saying, "Well, we NEVER said that it was the complete soundtrack."

[purplesunset]

CptPatch:

I'm glad you brought up the word ethics, because ultimately it's the principle of the thing that people here seem to be concerned with. 

It's easy to come into a thread and say something like "bah it's just a couple songs. what's the big deal?" This kind of post is beside the point.

Now, trying to argue from ethics with a company is pretty much akin to arguing with a statue. It would not be wise to hold your breath in anticipation that the statue will respond anytime soon. The arguement they will listen to is if you say, "I'm taking my money elsewhere." So, if the people in this thread really feel disappointed and want to effect some kind of change, they have a greater chance doing that by using their wallet, and not by trying to appeal to ethics or to sentiment about how you were a  long-time fan.

[Sloth Of Doom]

So if the giant whine abut this thread is that the CE didn't come with every song in the game, why is nobody whining that the 35 song soundtrack also does not contain every song in the game? Or that both soundtracks together STILL don't have every song in the game?



In fact, very few movies or games ever release complete soudtracks, either due to CD size, aesthetic choice, or legal issues.



So really what the complaint here is that some people read 'soundtrack' and then -assumed- that every song from the game would be present. It doesn't say "complete soundtrack" or in any other way imply that the CE comes with every song.



Where exactly does the CE "tell lies" as the thread title suggests?