289 réponses à ce sujet

[Spectre_Shepard]

ok before I get flamed out of here, let me say that I do not think Tali is a racist in any sense of the word. but consider this:

many people seem to enjoy condemning Ash as a racist because she is, at least initially before you "paragonize" her, mistrustful of aliens. Of course, mistrust is not the same as racism, and given her family's past Ash (at least in my opinion) has every reason to have those feelings.

Tali, when you think about it, is quite similar. She hates the geth. REALLY hates them, well beyond the simple mistrust Ash feels. Heck, she might be borderline genocidal, if my sense of her is correct, as evidenced by the fact that In the trailer we see her drawing down on what appears to be a completely unarmed Legion. (Of course, the actual situation is unknown, but the vibe is clearly that Tali had initiated that little encounter.) And obviously its not JUST her that is this way, but the entire quarian race. And since the geth are clearly at least somewhat if not entirely sentient, I consider them to be their own race as well. Now, Tali, like Ash, obviously also has ample reason for her feelings, seeing as what the geth have done to her people. 

So what's the difference between the two of them exactly? Why do so many people love Tali but dismiss Ash? Are they both bigots (which I disagree with), or do their characters go deeper than that?
 

[shinobi602]

Anybody who says Ashley is a "racist" clearly has not delved deep into her character. Bunch of BS. On the same token, I don't believe Tali is a "racist" either.

[SnakeStrike8]

Tali's dislike of the Geth felt much simpler to me: The Quarians have a vested interest in portraying the Geth as vile and evil monsters and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that they instill that same hatred in their children. Tali just swallowed that philosophy whole and since she's never spoke to a Geth, she never had the chance to question it. I'm hoping that having the much more mellow and calm Legion around will show her otherwise.

Ashley just thinks that humans shouldn't be trying so desperately to gain the trust of the Council. That's not so bad, but Ashley-haters grabbed that and called her 'racist'. Go figure, right?

[chenDawg]

You seem to be forgetting the fact that the Geth tried to wipe out her entire race (not to mention every other organic life form after they ran into Mr Reaper)

[Ettecoud]

I'd like to add something important to this conversation



Shepard: BECAUSE ITS A BIG STUPID JELLY FISH.



that is all

[Fates end]

Well, last I checked. The Geth nearly wiped out the entirety of the Quarian species and exiled what was left...frankly, it'd be odd if she didn't hate them.

[mrao]

Isn't Tali's father a high ranking member of the Quarian government? I find her views on the Geth to be believable, considering her background growing up in such an insular society.

Unlike Ash, you cannot really argue much about the Geth with Tali aside from that one conversation on the Normandy. Perhaps this is an opportunity for character development that will be explored in mass effect 2? I hope so, especially with the presence of Legion.

Also, I would not be so quick to make presumptions on the entire Quarian race, at least till we get to visit the Flotilla. For all we know, there are many Quarians who regret how they handled the situation with the Geth. And the Quarians that created the Geth are long dead. I believe that the remaining Quarians understand the Geth about as much we do. As Tali says, they do not really resemble the servants they intended to create 300 years ago.

Modifié par mrao, 22 janvier 2010 - 05:22 .

[tommythetomcat]

racism is human nature, so naturally it effects Tali.

[GnusmasTHX]

Geth are enemies to every race.



The quarians are blamed for the geth's existence.



The geth already tried to exterminate the quarians, and the only survivors are on a permanent fleet.



So yeah, she probably does REALLY hate them.

[Schneidend]

Tali could only be considered racist if you consider the geth a "species," or even "people." They aren't. That'd be like calling somebody who dislikes waffle irons racist.

[chenDawg]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

chenDawg wrote...

You seem to be forgetting the fact that the Geth tried to wipe out her entire race (not to mention every other organic life form after they ran into Mr Reaper)

Only after the quarians made the first move. I adore me some Tali, but I hope I can paragon her like Garrus.

True, but last time I checked, hating the robots from Terminator wasn't considered racist.

[VettoRyouzou]

Tali a little more understandable imagine learning from day one you were exiled off your home from them and then any kind of s"well maybe.." thought is later killed by Saren and the actions of the geth under his command.

Modifié par VettoRyouzou, 22 janvier 2010 - 05:22 .

[tommythetomcat]

Schneidend wrote...

Tali could only be considered racist if you consider the geth a "species," or even "people." They aren't. That'd be like calling somebody who dislikes waffle irons racist.

Waffle Irons don't worship a higher power.  Well maybe the flying spaghetti monster.

[Shady314]

Even if it was humanity's fault would YOU hate a race of machines that killed billions of your people and ended up forcing you into exile on a ****ty fleet of ships before you were even born? Or would you just forgive and move on? Unless you're in the running for sainthood I think you would hate them.



It's not as if the Geth overthrew the Quarians and became productive members of the Galactic community. They closed off the Perseus Veil and didn't leave until they thought they'd get a chance to kill every organic race in existence. Even as a non-quarian I do not feel a whole lot of sympathy for them.

[Spectre_Shepard]

Fates end wrote...

Well, last I checked. The Geth nearly wiped out the entirety of the Quarian species and exiled what was left...frankly, it'd be odd if she didn't hate them.

this is of course a valid point, which I referenced, and it is why I don't think Tali is a racist and why I understand her feelings.

but the same argument can of course be made about Ash and humans as a whole: we got into a war with the turians that threatened humanity's way of life. obviously we made off better than did the quarians, but the connection is still there.

[lokiarchetype]

We're having the same discussion here if you want to compare notes.

http://social.biowar...701392/1#701492

Modifié par lokiarchetype, 22 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .

[SomethinNothing]

I didn't dislike Ashley because she had some minor "racist" overtones, I disliked her because she was just comparatively boring to the other squad members for me, even Tali who had much less development.

That said, I think Tali, and the rest of the Quarians, have a justifiable reason for hating Geth, same as the Geth do for hating them. As mentioned, regardless of the reasons behind the war, the Quarians lost billions of their people and even their own homeplanet at the hands of the Geth. They also lost most of their political power as a result of what happened.

Even if Tali were to acknowledge that the Quarians were wrong to try and shut down the Geth, losses that great aren't easily forgiven.

Modifié par SomethinNothing, 22 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .

[Fates end]

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

Fates end wrote...

Well, last I checked. The Geth nearly wiped out the entirety of the Quarian species and exiled what was left...frankly, it'd be odd if she didn't hate them.

this is of course a valid point, which I referenced, and it is why I don't think Tali is a racist and why I understand her feelings.

but the same argument can of course be made about Ash and humans as a whole: we got into a war with the turians that threatened humanity's way of life. obviously we made off better than did the quarians, but the connection is still there.

Very true, though now Humanity and the Turians get along reasonably well.  (The Geth kill anything organic that comes near them.)  Even going so far as to build a prototype warship together.  Humans have reason to hate the Turians, but members of both species are making peaceful overtures to each other.

[Schneidend]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Waffle Irons don't worship a higher power.  Well maybe the flying spaghetti monster.

All the more reason to obliterate them, then. They're making the same mistakes humanity has made since our inception.

The only sympathy I feel for the geth is that they did not ask to exist, and did not have to be created. But, just because you're a sentient toaster doesn't mean you're not a toaster. A tool that no longer serves its purpose should be discarded.

[Fro_McJoe]

Well the Geth do have that whole "get all genocidal on every organic who comes by us" thing that just makes it hard to be friendly with them

[LurchALC]

Yes, Tali is a white hood wearing, cross burning, Bud Light drinking, Nascar watching, RACIST!



Not really, she might be interesting if she had that, or any personality.



Tali fans have only 2 thinks in common: They love to "report this post" whining and crying to BioWare when some one disrespects their religions idol. And DEM HIPS which aren't really all that great when you realize DEM LEGS look like they were stolen from a dog.

[lokiarchetype]

And yes, Tali is racist.



She is prejudiced against all Geth, no matter, and indeed, despite their individual natures and that is racism.

Other factors like history between their two races don't change that, it simply makes her position understandable, not any less racist.

No matter how many members of Group A wrong you or your people, if you judge a member who wasn't involved for the act simply because they are from Group A and hold them responsible, it's racism.