Malastare- wrote...
finc.loki wrote...
Let me know when you leave the fantasy world of games and movies.
(more rambling)
Alright, you need to make a more coherent argument. First, you argue that its not possible for synthetic systems to become sentient. When I respond to show you examples of how these things may be accomplished in the future, you try to refute this by saying it doesn't exist now?
No one argued that it exists now. To even bring that into the conversation shows that you simply lost track of what was even being discussed. The question at hand is whether the geth count as being a sentient race that can be subject to unfair prejudice. To that end, arguing about the existence of artificial sentience is... pointless. Within the framework of the discussion: the geth exist. The geth question their existence. These are facts and are not disputable.
Is this fantasy? Yes.
News report: ME2 isn't real.
You claimed that the geth's sentience must be fake and that machines cannot exceed their programming. I told you to look at genetic algorithms and neural networks. These are techniques that exist right now that are entirely based on the idea that they are capable of doing things that the programmer did not give them instructions to do. The fact that you mention Deep Blue just highlights the fact that you don't understand the topic at hand. Deep Blue didn't use any adaptive programming. It was running off a library of moves and solved situations by calculating the huge decision trees of all possible permutations of moves. There was nothing there that anyone who actually understood software or psychology would ever even suggest was an AI.
Neural networks and genetic algorithms are based on adaptibility. Have you ever used them? I have. We've used them to solve problems we don't know how to solve ourselves. You set up a genetic algorithm system and let it evolve until it manages to find the solution you were looking for. In one case, a genetic algorithm found a solution to an NP-complete problem in just two days. We expected a more directed, classical approach to take five days.
Is that sentience? Of course not. However, your statement that a machine cannot accomplish things outside its programming is patently wrong, at this moment in time. In the future, there's no reason to assume that programming capabilities will decrease. The human brain does not operate outside the bounds of physics. It has limited processing power, and it won't take very long before computers are capable of harnessing more power and storage than a human brain. At that point, it becomes only a matter of time before complex, abstract systems coded for adaptibility and learning are capable of exhibiting emergent behavior.
Anyone who actually researches these things eventually comes to the realization that this emergent behavior has a good probability of manifesting as something we recognize as sentience.
To sum up: Does it exist now? No. Can you say that it can never exist? Only if you refuse to even try to understand the topic.
Sure, a computer can or in this case your genetic algorithms can solve problems outside of its programming parameter, this however does not mean it will spontaneously form Consciousness and sentience.
That is the same type of fallacy religious people make when they try to prove the possiblity of "god' by saying DNA is so complex, there must be an "architect/maker", hence there is a god.
It's a non sequitur argument:
computers are complex and they can now do predictions and solve problems beyond their programming, IE computers will have sentience in the future...
Can it happen, perhaps. I can't say absolutely no for obvious reasons, this does not make it likely hower.
As far as I know science doesn't work out of assumptions and maybe's and faith.
Well I would think it is more possible for machines to reach sentience over the belief there is a god, if that satisfy you.
Where,when and what would spark this Consciousness in machines?
Will it happen when they "solve problems" outside their pre specified parameters? Do they come across some kind of magical answer that, like a "spark of life" just makes them conscious all of a sudden?
Perhaps the "all spark cube" from Transformers really do exist.
Until there is more tangible evidence, it is and will remain a philosophical topic.
On topic regarding Tali and the fantasy Geth:
Even if she hates the Geth, it doesn't make here a Xenophobe (racist, which is wrong term).
She doesn't hate all alien species.
Also her hate stems from the history between the Geth and the Quarians, not by their looks and capabilities.
Anyways that is how I see it.
Modifié par finc.loki, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:54 .
Guest_KorPhaeron11_*
Retour en haut
