25 réponses à ce sujet

[Yargol]

I'm playing through again and playing  more as a scoundrel.  However it seems that your abilitty to play as a not so nice guy usually results in missing quests.  For instance, if you play it mean when you meat Ban Teagan in Redcliffe, then you end up not getting the quest to help out the villagers, etc.  That's just an example.

Another issue is that when agree to help, you lose favor with some of your party members, most notably Morrigan.  The game is supposed to be about making hard decisions, however it seems to definately be slanted towards being the good guy like so many other games.

[x-president]

I did sort of a bad route last game and I did miss out on a lot of missions.  I still ended up around level 22 or 23 at the end so it really doesn't effect you that much.

Also if you kill the one assassin that comes after you instead of letting him be part of the team, you loose all those extra side quests in Denerim.   It never triggered for me in my last game.

[tehprincessJ]

Yargol wrote...

Another issue is that when agree to help, you lose favor with some of your party members, most notably Morrigan.  The game is supposed to be about making hard decisions, however it seems to definately be slanted towards being the good guy like so many other games.

Morrigan hates me, since I do nothing but good deeds. But I've found the game has a ridiculously large amount of gifts for her, so I keep her happy regardless.

Sten is hard to keep happy. I can't take him anywhere, I swear.

In general, you can chose a renegade path without being a jerk to everyone you speak to. Sure, the "Leave his body for the wolves" lines are hilarious, but you can stick to being "bad" as far as the big decisions, and you'll be less likely to miss out on side quests.

[CptPatch]

If the Hero is a real bastard/****, it will be hard to get the companions' Approval high enough for them to trigger their personal quests. So being BAD means that right there, you will probably miss out on 8 personal quests.



If you shower them with Gifts to get their Approval up, it would suggest that your play style is only semi-BAD. More of the Lovable Rascal than Bad-to-the-bone.

[Yargol]

In Redcliffe, the unnamed knights say "I know we owe you much, but you're a scoundrel." I've tried taking the main quests using the selfish dialogue choices, like "what's in it for me." But usually it still triggers negative reactions from Morrigan and Sten. The only dialogue that doesn't seem to trigger their negative reactions are to refuse to help, which in Redcliffe results in being unable to continue with the main quest, I think, since I've not actually refused.

[Sarielle]

Yargol wrote...

In Redcliffe, the unnamed knights say "I know we owe you much, but you're a scoundrel." I've tried taking the main quests using the selfish dialogue choices, like "what's in it for me." But usually it still triggers negative reactions from Morrigan and Sten. The only dialogue that doesn't seem to trigger their negative reactions are to refuse to help, which in Redcliffe results in being unable to continue with the main quest, I think, since I've not actually refused.

No, you can totally finish the game if you let the town of Redcliffe go to hell.


EDIT: And I think it depends. My "good" character, for instance, wouldn't realistically take any of the assassination quests from the Crows, so I missed out on those with her. My bard, however, was all "Sign me up."

Modifié par Sarielle, 22 janvier 2010 - 11:28 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Yes - my good characters won't take certain quests. And they miss out on rewards and money, because they don't ask for it or refuse it. If you're 'good' and you intimidate people into giving you stuff, or you do the assassin or thief quests - well, you're not really 'good' are you?



The people who get all the rewards and all the experience, in fact, are those who don't role play. They just take everything regardless of what their character might be like. In effect, I suppose, role players are 'punished' - not 'evil' characters.

[Aezeal]

Susan... they might roleplay to be greedy lil thrillseeker hero's .. which IMHO is very realistic. I want to get everything I see, I want to do it all because I'm the greatest... and be nice when needed and rude if you can get away with it. I'd just have to roleplay my lil brother ... except he probably would keep all gifts for himself I'll have to admit

[knownastherat]

Seems role play does not include to play oneself .. and I'd agree being "good" (let's call it altruist?) pays generally off, interestingly getting benefits of being good yet being selfish. What gives? Either game theory (****** for tat for example) or most people like to believe they are "good", and nobody (the marketing department?) would want to force all those good people to do evil deeds in a video game

[tehprincessJ]

Aezeal wrote...

they might roleplay to be greedy lil thrillseeker hero's .. which IMHO is very realistic. I want to get everything I see, I want to do it all because I'm the greatest... and be nice when needed and rude if you can get away with it.

Word. I don't pick choices based on "good" or "bad". I usually go with the choice that's closest to what I'd say in that situation. Or what I think my char would say, I suppose. Sure, the Crow quests are assassinations. But the targets are all wrapped up in evil doings themselves. Some people have it coming, as Zev would say.

[SusanStoHelit]

I don't necessarily disagree. But I do think that a truly 'good', let's say a lawful good altruist, wouldn't steal or assassinate. And they wouldn't extort money - even from bad guys.

I suppose you could role play someone who gets the best of both worlds, but imo that wouldn't be a 'good' character, it would be a chaotic neutral one.

Edit: I know it's not really appropriate to use those terms in this setting, but it does show clearly what I'm trying to say, so what the hell?

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 23 janvier 2010 - 01:00 .

[CptPatch]

SusanStoHelit wrote...
or you do the .... thief quests - well, you're not really 'good' are you?

BUT all of the thief quests are aimed at stealing from Bad People.  When you make Bad People suffer a loss, that's a Good Thing, isn't it?

[Sarielle]

CptPatch wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...
or you do the .... thief quests - well, you're not really 'good' are you?

BUT all of the thief quests are aimed at stealing from Bad People.  When you make Bad People suffer a loss, that's a Good Thing, isn't it?

Depends entirely on your perspective. First off if your character is the law-abiding sort...and second off, who determines whether or not the marks "bad"?

I've started doing those on Chloe, and the questgiver doesn't seem to suggest they're bad people...just good marks. Which is all find and dandy with her, but unless they go more in-depth with later stages of the quests I don't get where you think you're stealing from Bad People?

[CptPatch]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I don't necessarily disagree. But I do think that a truly 'good', let's say a lawful good altruist, wouldn't steal or assassinate. And they wouldn't extort money - even from bad guys.

But it seems DAO does _not_ go for Lawful vs Chaotic distinctionsl just Good vs Evil.  Making Evil people suffer is a "good" deed, while making non-Evil people suffer is an "evil" deed.

[Sarielle]

CptPatch wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I don't necessarily disagree. But I do think that a truly 'good', let's say a lawful good altruist, wouldn't steal or assassinate. And they wouldn't extort money - even from bad guys.

But it seems DAO does _not_ go for Lawful vs Chaotic distinctionsl just Good vs Evil.  Making Evil people suffer is a "good" deed, while making non-Evil people suffer is an "evil" deed.

Just because there isn't a "lawful" alignment doesn't mean your character might not tend to act lawfully.

[CptPatch]

SPOILERS AHEAD!!

Sarielle wrote...who determines whether or not the marks "bad"?

The Absent Mistress -- the target is a noble off shopping for herself while her people are left to fend off the Blight on their own.
A Fist Full of Silver -- Arl Howe has been embezzling money meant to defend Ferelden.  You're simply taking some of it back.
The Private Collection -- Again, a noble is spluging on himself instead of taking care of his people properly.
Tears of Andraste -- You steal back a sacred relic that the noble stole in the first place.
Lady in Waiting -- The ultimate party that suffers here is another negligent noble.
A Stolen Blade -- Not familiar with Slim's sales pitch on this one.
Market Day -- The target is a seneschal for a noble that, I'm guessing is of the negligent variety.
The Traitor's Crown -- The ultimate victim is a noble ally of Loghain's.

Pretty much all of these targets seem to be "exploiters of their subjects", selfish, and negligent of the needs of the people they are theoretically supposed to protect.  So I can easily rationalize labeling them as Bad People.

[tehprincessJ]

yeah, the Slim Couldry quests seem a lot like a Robin Hood thing. If you have guilt over it, you can always pour all your earnings into the Redcliff Knight's pockets in camp.

[Sarielle]

Okay, I'll confess I didn't actually read the quest descriptions you just posted because, well, I don't want to spoil them for myself >.>; I'll just take it that yes, they're pretty shady people you're stealing from, lol.

[Kaoschizm]

So what you're saying is if you act like a douche people won't like you or offer you work - seems pretty fair to me. Besides, Morrigan whines if you do good things as well, you cant really win either way with her, she's probably the most accurate portrayal of a real woman in the whole game; the only way to keep her happy is constantly buying her useless crap.

Modifié par Kaoschizm, 23 janvier 2010 - 05:21 .

[CptPatch]

Kaoschizm wrote...
 she's probably the most accurate portrayal of a real woman in the whole game; the only way to keep her happy is constantly buying her useless crap.

Are you, perhaps, a misogynist?  ("All women are....[extensive derogatory adjectives]")

:innocent:

[Kaoschizm]

nah it was a joke. Although my gf would probably punch me if she saw what I wrote haha

[SusanStoHelit]

Just because the mark is 'bad' doesn't make stealing from the 'good'. That's a morally slippery slope. But even if it did, my character doesn't know that beforehand. And I believe I pointed out that I knew Lawful Good didn't apply in DAO - but that it explained what I meant. If my character is really good, altruistic, angelic, utterly committed to the upkeep of the law always - she wouldn't steal.



Now, I don't much like 'Lawful Good' characters. I'm more chaotic myself. I'm just saying that there are those who wouldn't do them because it doesn't fit their character. And in any case, thieving is still thieving. My neutral and chaotic characters don't have a problem - but the really goody two shoes ones do.

[DJ0000]

SusanStoHelit wrote...
The people who get all the rewards and all the experience, in fact, are those who don't role play. They just take everything regardless of what their character might be like. In effect, I suppose, role players are 'punished' - not 'evil' characters.

Actually, I do all the quests because I play as myself. I don't care about anyone else, I just care about the reward and I'll do almost anything for a good reward or if it 'sjust fun. The only thing that I don't like to do is open the Chantry in Orzammar, firstly because I hate the Chantry and more importantly because there is no reward. If he gave me some money or a sword I would open help everytime. So I do role play, just in a different way.

[LarryFine]

Yargol wrote...

In Redcliffe, the unnamed knights say "I know we owe you much, but you're a scoundrel." I've tried taking the main quests using the selfish dialogue choices, like "what's in it for me." But usually it still triggers negative reactions from Morrigan and Sten. The only dialogue that doesn't seem to trigger their negative reactions are to refuse to help, which in Redcliffe results in being unable to continue with the main quest, I think, since I've not actually refused.

This game foolishly does sometimes punish you for being good.  If you save the blacksmith's daughter then he doesn't kill himself and you don't get the farsong bow which is possibly the best bow in the game.  I didn't know about it the first time saved her and no bow.

Spoiler

It is correct you can finish the game and let redcliffe die.  I wanted to go back to denerim to finish the blackstone irregulars quest for delivering the letters and the guy at the bridge tried to stop me.  I told him I'd be back and left anyway.  The horde descended on the village everyone died and Teagan was left unconscious in the chantry.  He gave me a nice spiel about how evil I was then took me into castle anyway .  I don't know if this changes the dialogue with connor because I reloaded and saved the village.

[CptPatch]

LarryFine wrote...
If you save the blacksmith's daughter then he doesn't kill himself and you don't get the farsong bow which is possibly the best bow in the game.  I didn't know about it the first time saved her and no bow.

Spoiler

Something of a tradeoff, I think.

If you DO save the daughter, then the next time you visit Owen and try to open the locked trapdoor, he'll make a comment and then give you the key.  Can't remember exactly what's in there, but it is several items.  Probably not  Is NOT as good as the Farsong bow, but at least the stuff is free.