328 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I dont know about anyone else but im finding it very hard now adays to find games that are truly hard to do and enjoyable at the same time, as it stands all the DA games consist of to make it "hard" is friendly fire an then tbh thats just a cheap an nasty annoyance to give the illusion of difficulty nothing more, eliminate the FF an nightmares a walk over, hence solo mode.

 

If Bioware does a story mode for DAi all well n good but dont do a ME3 an have what i would consider normal mode as nightmare

 

FF is not why nightmare is hard. I mean, you have to be really bad to actually nuke yourself with FF, and it's not especially challenging to master formations where you've got enemies coming at you in easy kill cones to constantly nuke them with AOEs. I only roll with 3 mages with all AOE nukes for regular battles in DA:O/DAII on nightmare. If I know there's a boss coming up in DA2 I'll switch in a warrior for my rogue, but that's basically it. 

[I Like Cats And]

Ewwww

[ChachiBobinks]

Y'know, that's an interesting question. I did tabletop RPGs for years. I even used to LARP back when my health still allowed for it. So, a game where the emphasis is on roleplay and character interactions as opposed to combat actually has a great deal of appeal to me.  That said, I also like combat for the tactical challenge of it, but not enough to play ONLY for the combat. So, while I probably would buy a game that was more of an interactive storytelling experience, I wouldn't (and don't) buy games that are pure combat.

 

I should also mention that I'm a professional writer, so a strong story and good characters are things that really appeal to me. It's what drew me to Dragon Age in the first place.

 

IMO, Dragon Age usually (not always, but usually) hits just the right balance between combat and roleplay.  I mostly would like to have the Narrative Mode option available so that if I run into a situation where my hands start to give out long before the fight is over--like what happened with the Arishok--I can nerf the combat and move on. Or, as others have mentioned, to use for purely exploratory purposes. Because, yeah, I'm still gonna get my money's worth that way, even if I skip out on certain combat scenarios. In fact, I think it would help me get more out of the game.

 

And I do get the "I'm in it for the challenge" part. I am stubborn to the point of stupidity at times, and have gone back and replayed certain combats on higher difficulties, or with different party combinations, just to see if I could do it. But those are exceptions, really.

 

I'm good at tactics, and things that involve logic and reasoning.  I suck at mashing buttons, or twitch type games. I'm working on it; I took up knitting about four years ago, which has helped strengthen my hands a lot. But. Chronic illness is chronic, you know? I'm always going to have days (and sometimes weeks) where I just can't.

 

My husband would appreciate an easier narrative-type mode so that I'll stop yelling at him to wake up at 1 am because I positively cannot work this controller anymore, but am desperate to know what happens next.

 

I don't see why this is an outrageous thing for players to request. This being the narrative mode, not my husband's constant awakenings. If a player is perfectly happy with not fighting, then that's their own choice. It doesn't make Legendary players any less Legendary. In the end, it's your game. If you'd like (or need) to have an easier way around it, why not?

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I have lupus, which causes a lot of joint pain and, at times, sub-par reaction time. I play Bioware games for the story and character development, anyway, so a narrative mode would be ideal for me. I would get everything I wanted out of the game and not have my hands vice locked into controller shaped claws by time I finished. It doesn't really seem like many people arguing against this consider that some people have real medical issues that keep them from being ideal gamers. Even so, it seems pretty unreasonable, to me, to try to deny enjoyment of the game to people that you don't think meet your personal standards for video game skill. 

[Sister Goldring]

I'm a bog standard gamer in that I enjoy combat.  In fact, I find I up the difficulty of the game only when I am really enjoying the combat experience.  So while I played DAO on nightmare, I played DA2 on whatever the default setting was called.

 

Thing is, I just like combat - I enjoy it as part of the story telling process.  As I plot and plan I get a more holistic picture of who my character is and that feeling enriches my game.  If I hated the combat and found it a chore but still loved the narrative then I imagine that I would be delighted to have an option that minimized my time spent in the activity.  If I was physically unable to play the game on the standard settings then I imagine the existence of this option would be a stellar selling point for me.

 

So as an outsider to game development, I'd say why not add it for those that would find the experience more enjoyable for it's inclusion.  I don't care how other people play their game - I'm selfish like that, I guess but I also can't say what this sort of feature would entail work-wise for those that have to make it.   

[Bugsie]

I have lupus, which causes a lot of joint pain and, at times, sub-par reaction time. I play Bioware games for the story and character development, anyway, so a narrative mode would be ideal for me. I would get everything I wanted out of the game and not have my hands vice locked into controller shaped claws by time I finished. It doesn't really seem like many people arguing against this consider that some people have real medical issues that keep them from being ideal gamers. Even so, it seems pretty unreasonable, to me, to try to deny enjoyment of the game to people that you don't think meet your personal standards for video game skill. 

Thankyou for sharing that.  I'm reluctant to share my own medical issues that may (but don't currently) affect my ability to play at a certain level of combat, and really yours or mine or anyone elses medical issues is really no one elses business but our own.  I don't really see why anyone need 'justify' playing at a lower difficulty setting, especially as it doesn't affect anyone elses game but our own.  And yes I definitely think it's unreasonable to deny enjoyment to others because they don't play the same way you do/would!

[Ophidiae]

Thankyou for sharing that.  I'm reluctant to share my own medical issues that may (but don't currently) affect my ability to play at a certain level of combat, and really yours or mine or anyone elses medical issues is really no one elses business but our own.  I don't really see why anyone need 'justify' playing at a lower difficulty setting, especially as it doesn't affect anyone elses game but our own.  And yes I definitely think it's unreasonable to deny enjoyment to others because they don't play the same way you do/would!

 

You're right, nobody should have to justify playing at whatever level they're most comfortable playing. However, in a thread like this, giving details of how one's physical disabilities and/or chronic conditions can affect gameplay may well be of use to the developers. The more information they have to work with, the better.

 

I have fibromyalgia, along with a host of other ills on top of it. I was hesitant to go into specifics when I first posted, in part because I'm very shy, but mostly because I was afraid of being flamed for speaking up. I didn't want to have to defend my desire for such a feature. I've had way too much RL experience dealing with people who think it's a gross imposition if I so much as ask them to please walk a little slower. Over the years, this has made it very difficult for me to ask for help. :/

[Bugsie]

It's fantastic that you did speak up!

 

Well I'll put it out there and it might explain to some why I'm so vehement in my support of this particular feature.  I have MS.  It's a chronic condition with no current cure (Although the advances in medical treatment even in the last 2 years has been phenomenal)  I have lost function on my right side twice now, affecting my right arm and hand mostly and made it practically impossible to play games where you need a fast trigger finger on a hand held console controller or a mouse, miserable times indeed.  Recovery from an attack can be fast or slow or not at all.  I was lucky as full function returned and my symptoms are now mostly sensory.

 

So for my future self, who may or may not be in a position to play full fledged combat mode it would be nice to have this feature.  I don't just have a selfish agenda for this, because there are lot of people like yourself Ohidiae and Mort de Minuit who this feature would benefit now and I can't not support the enjoyment of others which is at absolutely no expense to how I currently play.

[Silcron]

I think we're forgetting something. This is a game, not a movie, not an interactive story. Combat is a part of it and if you want ot skip it maybe you should consider other things (there are interactive novels out there for example, without the QTEs of Telltale games).

 

And before you jump no, I'm not against this idea. I'm against the idea of making combat so easy it becomes a chore (like the examples given of enemies having 1hp and you being basically unkillable) or to have the option to skip it. Fights that require different mechanics keep the game a game. Sure it may be heavy on the story but that is just part of it. Let me put an example. Let's say you're playing DnD and you get ambushed, and it's an easy encounter. Narrative mode would have just all the PCs roll one dice and no matter the outcome they win. In that case you're not playing DnD, what they want is to roleplay in a DnD setting.

 

Take the high dragons, corypheus, deep roads golem fights. If you play them on easy and just pay enough attention there's not much of a challenge to beat them aside from figuring out their mechanics, and that's my point. Easy mode asks you to figure those out, as if they were a puzzle, but they put no pressure on you. It's not like if you commit a mistake while trying to figure them out you will fail and die like in the hardcore difficulties. In my opinion easy mode should make it so the fights feel more like puzzles, specially with the involvement of strategic combat.

 

I don't think a narrative mode when all you do is press a button several times or let it play out to win is a good idea, you're basically breaking a core aspect of the game. And being honest I think tweeking easy mode to hit that level of puzzlyness I've talked about with the tactical pause should be really easy.

 

Edit: the short version. I'd prefer is easy mode was something in which you had to solve the puzzle each fight presents (specially since it's not procedurally generated) with the certainty that unless you screw up bad, you're not going to die. That is easy, and keeps you invested in what you're doing, it's interactive, in other words, a game. (alas, once you solve that puzzle the fight shouldn't take much longer to beat, just mentioning this because while I think it's obvious, it may not be).

[Bugsie]

And again I'll say you don't get to tell people what they get to play based on what you think they would prefer or how you view the game 'should be played' in order to get value from it. I really don't get why people don't get this and frankly it's getting insulting how many times it's been used against people advocating a narrative feature. I could argue against ME's action mode for the same reason, that perhaps they should stick to FPS if that's all they want from the game, don't they know by just having auto dialogue and pre loaded choices they're breaking a core aspect of the game?!? But I'm not going to do that, if that's how they want to play it's their choice and in no way affects how I play.

Your DnD analogy is somewhat spurious as I don't need a great deal of dexterity or speed to role a die. Unless I'm swinging an actual sword...

I don't really understand what your saying about tweeking the game in easy mode, and making it more like solving a puzzle using strategy, when there is a heavy element of strategy in the combat as is at all levels. If what I think youre saying - that lower difficulty should involve more complex strategy (less speed needed for spamming spells or hits) I'm not really sure how easy that would be to implement but I'm pretty sure those who do play on higher difficulties would bemoan the fact that they got a dumbed down version of gameplay because they have more dexterity and faster reaction times.

[Silcron]

I still am against that action mode in ME3, the same way I am against a complete narrative version of a game like this. Following that example ME is a mixture of tps (third person shooter) and rpg that is heavily story based, you take any of those three elements out and to my opinion you're breaking the game. You wouldn't be playing ME any longer. The same applies to DA, except it's not a mixture of genres.

 

The point with the dice is that if the result doesn't matter in what otherwise would say how you're doing in combat then it's pointless.

 

They wouldn't because both players would have to solve that puzzle, the difference is that if they comite mistakes only the guys playing on higher difficulties get punished for it, as it should be, that's how you die in well designed games. On a higher difficulty it feels like strategic combat, either you figure out what to do or you die, and you should have different solutions available. On the easy difficulty you would need to figure out one of those solutions to win, but there wouldn't be any pressure. Unless you pretty much stand there doing nothing you're not going to die. That is easy, that is a laid back experience but it still keeps you invested in what you're doing.

 

The thing is that there's only so many option you can give until the game stops being what it was. To me action mode basically breaks ME3, because it takes away one of its key features, dialogue choice. The same way that having a mod to skip combat or make it pointless also breaks it.

 

Again, in other words. I think it's better to have a very easy mode rather than one that takes away one of the key features of the game by making it pointless. I'd love for that narrative/casual/very easy mode to be there, I just don't want it to make combat pointless like some people suggested by having enemies die all in one hit. Because combat is part of this series of games, and if you're just in for the story would you really like for that boss that has been built up so much to just appear with a prompt that said: "press any button to win." (or even if that prompt doesn't appear but is basically what happens) well, what an inmersion breaker tbh.

 

That's it. My argument is to make casual mode as easy as people want it without making one of the pillars of the game pointless, that there is that compromise. And then I went on to explain ideas of how I think that could be achieved. Is it really that unreasonable?

[ChachiBobinks]

I think we're forgetting something. This is a game, not a movie, not an interactive story. Combat is a part of it and if you want ot skip it maybe you should consider other things (there are interactive novels out there for example, without the QTEs of Telltale games).

 

And before you jump no, I'm not against this idea. I'm against the idea of making combat so easy it becomes a chore (like the examples given of enemies having 1hp and you being basically unkillable) or to have the option to skip it. Fights that require different mechanics keep the game a game. Sure it may be heavy on the story but that is just part of it. Let me put an example. Let's say you're playing DnD and you get ambushed, and it's an easy encounter. Narrative mode would have just all the PCs roll one dice and no matter the outcome they win. In that case you're not playing DnD, what they want is to roleplay in a DnD setting.

 

Take the high dragons, corypheus, deep roads golem fights. If you play them on easy and just pay enough attention there's not much of a challenge to beat them aside from figuring out their mechanics, and that's my point. Easy mode asks you to figure those out, as if they were a puzzle, but they put no pressure on you. It's not like if you commit a mistake while trying to figure them out you will fail and die like in the hardcore difficulties. In my opinion easy mode should make it so the fights feel more like puzzles, specially with the involvement of strategic combat.

 

I don't think a narrative mode when all you do is press a button several times or let it play out to win is a good idea, you're basically breaking a core aspect of the game. And being honest I think tweeking easy mode to hit that level of puzzlyness I've talked about with the tactical pause should be really easy.

 

Edit: the short version. I'd prefer is easy mode was something in which you had to solve the puzzle each fight presents (specially since it's not procedurally generated) with the certainty that unless you screw up bad, you're not going to die. That is easy, and keeps you invested in what you're doing, it's interactive, in other words, a game. (alas, once you solve that puzzle the fight shouldn't take much longer to beat, just mentioning this because while I think it's obvious, it may not be).

Yes, but are these interactive stories written by BioWare? Because seriously. Asking someone to give up the ability to interact with the stories written by this amazing team is a bit of a high, unfair order. I like that you suggest puzzles because it shows that you're willing to think up solutions. But at the same time...if they have an easier mode to play on, does it effect your ability to finish your game?

 

I would certainly hope not.

 

Asking for a narrative mode isn't asking to rewrite history or move mountains. It doesn't make them any less of a gamer, nor does it make anyone else less of a gamer, too. I've honestly never seen combat as a really important part of the game. I don't see how it adds to character development. It just means I can kick more butt and do so faster the longer I've played.

 

 

And again I'll say you don't get to tell people what they get to play based on what you think they would prefer or how you view the game 'should be played' in order to get value from it. I really don't get why people don't get this and frankly it's getting insulting how many times it's been used against people advocating a narrative feature. I could argue against ME's action mode for the same reason, that perhaps they should stick to FPS if that's all they want from the game, don't they know by just having auto dialogue and pre loaded choices they're breaking a core aspect of the game?!? But I'm not going to do that, if that's how they want to play it's their choice and in no way affects how I play.

Your DnD analogy is somewhat spurious as I don't need a great deal of dexterity or speed to role a die. Unless I'm swinging an actual sword...

I don't really understand what your saying about tweeking the game in easy mode, and making it more like solving a puzzle using strategy, when there is a heavy element of strategy in the combat as is at all levels. If what I think youre saying - that lower difficulty should involve more complex strategy (less speed needed for spamming spells or hits) I'm not really sure how easy that would be to implement but I'm pretty sure those who do play on higher difficulties would bemoan the fact that they got a dumbed down version of gameplay because they have more dexterity and faster reaction times.

Clearly you've never sat at my table.

[Bugsie]

@Silcron, okay I think I understand what you're saying re strategy, but how is that different to what we already have?

And I guess what I find annoying is the prevalence of the attitude 'go hard or go home' re playing a game. I'll be honest, I would definitely miss combat and I'm not sure how I would feel about playing without it. Having said that there are a number of people in the thread already at that point and it's not unreasonable to ask for a such feature. I'll ask, are you likely to use these modes?

And I'll repeat ad nauseum. Just because you think it's pointless doesn't mean others feel the same.

@Chachi - Yikes!

[Stormy]

I've written this elsewhere but I'll stick it here, too, in case some dev decides to peek in and think what a great idea these people had!  

 

"One thing I loved about ME3 (don't hate!   ) was that I was able to turn difficulty alll the way down to a storyteller mode where the battles were there but they weren't the be-all-and-end-all of the game experience.  I got to enjoy the story.  I hope that DA:I will also give us this opportunity.  Oh, I'll play hardcore eventually when I'm bored and have worked out all the nuances of the story but, in the beginning of it all, I'd just like to explore."

 

Now... I'll just go hide my c&p keys. O-)

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Again, in other words. I think it's better to have a very easy mode rather than one that takes away one of the key features of the game by making it pointless. I'd love for that narrative/casual/very easy mode to be there, I just don't want it to make combat pointless like some people suggested by having enemies die all in one hit. Because combat is part of this series of games, and if you're just in for the story would you really like for that boss that has been built up so much to just appear with a prompt that said: "press any button to win." (or even if that prompt doesn't appear but is basically what happens) well, what an inmersion breaker tbh.

 

That's it. My argument is to make casual mode as easy as people want it without making one of the pillars of the game pointless, that there is that compromise. And then I went on to explain ideas of how I think that could be achieved. Is it really that unreasonable?

I get what your solution is, basically make it easier to not die, but not necessarily easier to win. This idea has some merits, as some people with slowed response times, less experience, etc, may actually like the opportunity to figure out the puzzle. The question is, when does it become "too easy"? I mentioned earlier in the thread that I have lupus. On the casual mode, as it is, there are time when a combination of joint pain, fogginess and drowsiness from medication make things like the Corypheus fight impossible for me to "win" at. With Inquisition being touted as more difficult, I definitely worry that the casual mode scaled in comparison will have large swathes that are impossible for me to complete on my own.

 

While the idea of completing the puzzle is somewhat appealing to me, I also just dread the idea of actually holding a controller for 40-50 hours. The truth is, I have my partner take over and play through a lot of the combative parts, as is. I just can't really handle it. A lot of people complain about the idea of the game being cut down to 6-12 hours in this mode, but this is a very appealing concept, to me. I don't really understand the complaints. You buy a DVD box set for a TV show for roughly the same price and get around the same amount of mileage out of it.

 

I get that you wouldn't be entertained with the game if combat was taken out or made too easy. Not everyone wants the same thing out of a game. Nobody is going to make you use the mode. Nobody is asking for it to be made the only mode. So, why does it matter if it doesn't appeal to you? Why does the mode need to compromise towards your preferences? It's something that would make the game more accessible to people that don't necessarily share your view of what makes the game enjoyable. Is that really a bad thing?

[SwobyJ]

Narrative Mode = You're playing a story game

Action Mode = You're playing a shooter/adventure game

Normal Modes with Difficulties = You're playing a RPG

 

I may have had more minor issues with how ME3 treated it (even seeing 'Action Mode' at the top of the list when starting a game made me inwardly shudder), but otherwise I've had no issues*.

 

 

*I view the 'lack of dialogue choices' to be a design decision, but that's my personal view. I do notice that Insanity seems quite easier than ME1-ME2, but we don't know if that has to do with Action or Narrative Mode, but instead just how they designed the combat overall.

[Silcron]

In response to Mort de Minuit (I don't feel like clicking on the quote button).

 

I'll admit that after some pages I just wrote my idea for this thread so I hadn't read your posts, thanks for taking me up to speed on that and I'll be completely honest. I had overseen your case. I don't have much time right now but I still don't feel at ease with just cutting that part. (don't get me wrong, I'm not against other genres that don't have combat at all, I really like some of those) And here's the thing, you've said that you find my idea appealing, the idea to make combat easy enough for people with disabilities or without the will for something harder to experience and still provide that sense of acomplishment. (I mean, that's my reason behind it, if you have to fight, at least make the "You win" feel like it in some way, not just "You pressed a button.").

 

And my answer is that I don't know right now. There must be a way to make some sort of compromise in which you would still be able to experience that part of the game, even if made easier. Maybe take out all combat except boss fights? I don't have the answer.

 

On a segway, people complain about games being shortened because they're expensive, and most people don't have the spare moeny to buy a lot of videogames. So if your single player game is going to last 10 hours instead of the previously usual 20+ then one would think that the price would be reduced. If you're used to pay, let's say 60 (insert currency here), for an rpg that last you usually 20+ hours when a company sells you one for the same price that lasted half of that time the word "overpriced" comes to the mind of a lot of people. (Not saying that having a mode that shortens the game cheapens it, as it would be in fact adding another feature).

[In Exile]

I think we're forgetting something. This is a game, not a movie, not an interactive story. Combat is a part of it and if you want ot skip it maybe you should consider other things (there are interactive novels out there for example, without the QTEs of Telltale games).

 

Edit: the short version. I'd prefer is easy mode was something in which you had to solve the puzzle each fight presents (specially since it's not procedurally generated) with the certainty that unless you screw up bad, you're not going to die. That is easy, and keeps you invested in what you're doing, it's interactive, in other words, a game. (alas, once you solve that puzzle the fight shouldn't take much longer to beat, just mentioning this because while I think it's obvious, it may not be).

 

How is this any different than the magic "persuade" checks that are part of D&D PC games? Pick enough ranks in diplomacy and you can auto-win every debate where you could be persuasive. Combat would be exactly the same with an auto-resolve. There'd still be a "puzzle" because you might have to build your characters. 

 

If being "interactive" is what makes something a game then even a choose your own adventure story would be a game by that definition because it is interactive. 

[Nashimura]

I would like this... for second playthroughs when i am going for a certain outcome, i don't want to be as hung up on the combat. 

[SwobyJ]

If you choose a Narrative mode, you've lost all right to complain about length of the game.

 

People know the game is a shooter-RPG. Options on how to experience this genre isn't the enemy.

 

Whether I want to turn the difficulty to Very Easy or Very Hard, it's largely agreed that the 'hours to play' is tuned to the Normal difficulty with maybe major sidequests (30-40, instead of 10-20 or 50-60, so far in Mass games).

 

 

BTW Narrative difficulty still means you're shooting the bad guys (or maybe in later games stealthing around, etc). It just also means that you're doing it in record time more easily, just as someone who is good at the game is finishing it at around the same time at Normal difficulty.

 

Narrative Difficulty already exists for so many games. It's called modding/hacking the game. Dev consoles, and so on. Having it as a secondary 'feature' of the difficulty settings is completely fine imo.

[AlanC9]

Well, if someone playing on Narrative complains about length, we can call him an idiot. Until then, I don't suppose we need to worry about it.

[N7_5P3CTR3]

I love having an easy mode for later play throughs and  support it being available.

[Stormy]

It's fantastic that you did speak up!

 

Well I'll put it out there and it might explain to some why I'm so vehement in my support of this particular feature.  I have MS.  It's a chronic condition with no current cure (Although the advances in medical treatment even in the last 2 years has been phenomenal)  I have lost function on my right side twice now, affecting my right arm and hand mostly and made it practically impossible to play games where you need a fast trigger finger on a hand held console controller or a mouse, miserable times indeed.  Recovery from an attack can be fast or slow or not at all.  I was lucky as full function returned and my symptoms are now mostly sensory.

 

So for my future self, who may or may not be in a position to play full fledged combat mode it would be nice to have this feature.  I don't just have a selfish agenda for this, because there are lot of people like yourself Ohidiae and Mort de Minuit who this feature would benefit now and I can't not support the enjoyment of others which is at absolutely no expense to how I currently play.

 

It's funny what will reveal when people actually start speaking but I'm in the exact same boat.  And, while I've learned to loathe saying that I know exactly how one feels, MS is so different that we're all affected differently... something I'd go in in another forum at another time.  Leave it to say, though, that I add my voice (as I'd done earlier in the list, too) that because of MS "difficulties" story mode is probably the best thing I'd found in ME3 and hope fervently that it comes to DA:I too.

 

Sure, when I get bored and feel better.. and have explored everything else at my pace, I may go and try something foolish like nightmare but at the start...  Please let us play a story.  If any dev is listening, I mean.