328 réponses à ce sujet

[Mockingword]

 

 

 

Well considering how the game isn't out yet, we have no real details on how anyone would react to an optional boss or if it would ever be referenced by any npc's,

so I can't really see the problem with a skip combat option for those who don't want to fight, I would think the game would go under the assumption that you just didn't kill the optional boss and you wouldn't receive any loot.

 

Also virtually all loot is combat centered, be it potions or armour or weapons so they couldn't benefit from these items anyway as they wouldn't be fighting anything so the loot becomes a moot point

 

They might want them just to customise the look of their character.

 

And they might not skip every combat.

[Bugsie]

Maybe people have misunderstood me as I'm fine with that. I'm just not fine with people using the "narrative skip combat option" on optional bosses.

Again why do you care how I play? Why do you care if I complete or don't complete something that's optional? You wouldn't have any idea what happened in my game or what difficulty I played on unless I tell you, so again why care about something I've never told you about? You are in full competition mode if you need to compare your playthrough with mine. If you play on nightmare and I play on easy I get the same reward (even without a narrative mode) that must really be a bummer for you. All those people out there not playing the game right, what a downer.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Lol, kheldorin. You are up **** creek without a paddle in this discussion. Just let it go. I sympathise with your thoughts, but BioWare has adopted a design mindset that is contrary to what you are talking about. If gameplay as a concept is wholly separated from narrative and literally peddled to the player as busy work in-between the meat of the game, then it doesn't really matter.

 

I don't like such a mindset when it comes to designing RPGs, because I am a sucker for story/gameplay integration. But not everyone shares that view, and you are going to get bombarded with "BUT IT'S MY GAME, I SHOULD PLAY HOW I WANT" type posts the more you try and argue for difficulty in a game that was intentionally designed to emphasise the importance of narrative, de-emphasise the importance of gameplay, then seek to separate them into different corners.

 

Basically, if narrative and gameplay have little to do with one another, and the main draw for players is narrative, there is little grounding to argue for more complex or difficult gameplay, since it doesn't serve the main purpose of the game. 

 

Roll with the punches and get Project Eternity. 

 

Not to mention, difficulty levels are basically a slider for hp/damage values (another thing I hate). Adding one at the bottom wouldn't be that big of a deal. The only question I have is one of necessity, but if people want it and literally struggle on casual as-is, meh. BioWare wants accessibility.

[JCFR]

They're asking for more; more facility for exploring different narrative choices, companion combos and alliances without having to wade through a bunch of cookie-cutter combat to get to the good stuff, more emphasis on story and less on hitting things.  They're not asking for what you want, and perhaps you are having trouble understanding what other people want in a game.  But what they want is not degrading anything; it's an added option. 

 

And asking for one more Mode of play is not asking for Less - not even numerically.  It's just asking for Different. 

In my opinion it is less because it takes away features of gameplay and show programmers, that there's no need to put much effort in their work, because out there are enough people who want to buy it but not really "play" it.They just want to see the story whichfor - to me - youtube is enough. I mean, what's next? Narrative mode for dark souls? Or diablo 4? Or QTE-battles in DAI? Ain't it enough if telltale does these things?

 

Narrative Mode strips a RPG of one of it's core-features and my fear is, that as a result, the gameplay suffers from that becuase developers stop putting time and effort into it -> the gamer will buy it anyway just for the story. That's exactly what you are telling them and i don't stand with that - especially not with BIOWARE, creator of Baldur's Gate. I want a game and not just an interactive movie.

 

Guys, i'm not someone who favors nightmare-difficulty, but that`s no reason fpr me to ask for a narrative mode in... for Example: dark souls.

[kheldorin]

 

 

 

Well considering how the game isn't out yet, we have no real details on how anyone would react to an optional boss or if it would ever be referenced by any npc's,

so I can't really see the problem with a skip combat option for those who don't want to fight, I would think the game would go under the assumption that you just didn't kill the optional boss and you wouldn't receive any loot.

 

Also virtually all loot is combat centered, be it potions or armour or weapons so they couldn't benefit from these items anyway as they wouldn't be fighting anything so the loot becomes a moot point

 

As I've said, if they didn't get any loot if they didn't fight the boss, that's fine.

[Amfortas]

I'd understand Kehldorin's position if the game didn't already have difficulty modes, just one mode where the hp, damage, abilities are all coherent with the story. A game where a fight is treated in the same way a conversation, where a fight is what it is. I'd personally like this.

 

But the game already has a ton of difficulty modes, and none of them indicate "this is the way the game is meant to be played". Making a super easy mode easier than easy is like making an amp that goes up to 11, it makes no difference.

[Bugsie]

I see a lot of stamping of feet here with absolutely NO sensible justification.

[fchopin]

Again why do you care how I play? Why do you care if I complete or don't complete something that's optional? You wouldn't have any idea what happened in my game or what difficulty I played on unless I tell you, so again why care about something I've never told you about? You are in full competition mode if you need to compare your playthrough with mine. If you play on nightmare and I play on easy I get the same reward (even without a narrative mode) that must really be a bummer for you. All those people out there not playing the game right, what a downer.

How you play your game is up to you but what rewards you get are not up to you.
If you upload your rewards it would show what difficulty you played the game if DAI allows this.

For example i don’t play multiplayer for ME3 so i did not get all the rewards that gamers who play multiplayer get.
So RPG players play how they want but have no say what rewards you get if information is uploaded or is multiplayer.

[TTTX]

I see a lot of stamping of feet here with absolutely NO sensible justification.

I agree.

 

 

How you play your game is up to you but what rewards you get are not up to you.
If you upload your rewards it would show what difficulty you played the game if DAI allows this.

For example i don’t play multiplayer for ME3 so i did not get all the rewards that gamers who play multiplayer get.
So RPG players play how they want but have no say what rewards you get if information is uploaded or is multiplayer.

If I remember correctly not many liked the whole I had to play MP in order to get something.

[KaiserShep]

I think the way ME3 did this is good enough. Take the One and Only achievement as an example. It's only available for players that beat the clones in the Armax Arsenal Arena on Normal or higher.

 

If I remember correctly not many liked the whole I had to play MP in order to get something.

 

In fairness, it mostly had to do with how the game did not have every ending available for even the most optimal playthrough unless you participated in multiplayer enough to raise awareness. I'm not aware of the other achievements in MP, but I can't say that they really matter compared to that.

[fchopin]

If I remember correctly not many liked the whole I had to play MP in order to get something.

I did not like that i could not get the best ending unless i played MP but apart from that i had no other problems.

[Bugsie]

How you play your game is up to you but what rewards you get are not up to you.If you upload your rewards it would show what difficulty you played the game if DAI allows this.For example i don’t play multiplayer for ME3 so i did not get all the rewards that gamers who play multiplayer get.So RPG players play how they want but have no say what rewards you get if information is uploaded or is multiplayer.

That's right. They're up to Bioware and they've given those rewards irrespective of the level of difficulty that anyone currently plays. As for the rest of your argument, it's totally nonsensical. There was uproar regarding that very aspect of ME3 multiplayer, the forum was pretty vocal in determining that particular change. MP and SP should be separate elements of the game and are separate styles of play. The sp is not a 'competitive rpg' unless you're competing against the AI or a personal best. The notion that it is a competition with other players or might be is ridiculous.

[Bugsie]

I did not like that i could not get the best ending unless i played MP but apart from that i had no other problems.

You can get the best ending without mp. I did.

[TTTX]

You can get the best ending without mp. I did.

Not when ME3 first came out.

[fchopin]

That's right. They're up to Bioware and they've given those rewards irrespective of the level of difficulty that anyone currently plays. As for the rest of your argument, it's totally nonsensical. There was uproar regarding that very aspect of ME3 multiplayer, the forum was pretty vocal in determining that particular change. MP and SP should be separate elements of the game and are separate styles of play. The sp is not a 'competitive rpg' unless you're competing against the AI or a personal best. The notion that it is a competition with other players or might be is ridiculous.

How you play the game is up to you but if another gamer wants to consider an RPG as competitive you have no right to say otherwise.
Many people tried to play TW2 as quick as possible to get a reward so what you say does not make sense.

If you wish to play DAI with very easy mode that is fine but you have no right to say to other people or Bioware how they should play DAI.

The only problem with ME3 was you could not get the best ending without MP.

[fchopin]

You can get the best ending without mp. I did.

Tell me how you did it or upload a save to prove it.

[Darth Krytie]

Tell me how you did it or upload a save to prove it.

 

There were two non-multiplayer options...two games for IOS...One of them, you can do on the website now. But, back then? Before the DLC/patching, you could get your galactic readiness up by playing Infiltrator and Datapad.

[fchopin]

There were two non-multiplayer options...two games for IOS...One of them, you can do on the website now. But, back then? Before the DLC/patching, you could get your galactic readiness up by playing Infiltrator and Datapad.

So basically you could not get the best ending with ME3 SP unless you used other means outside the game.

[Bugsie]

Not when ME3 first came out.

Yes after the uproar.

How you play the game is up to you but if another gamer wants to consider an RPG as competitive you have no right to say otherwise.Many people tried to play TW2 as quick as possible to get a reward so what you say does not make sense.If you wish to play DAI with very easy mode that is fine but you have no right to say to other people or Bioware how they should play DAI.The only problem with ME3 was you could not get the best ending without MP.

But it's not competitive. Unless Bioware says it is. I do not recall them ever saying the SP game was competitive. If someone wants to play competitive amongst their friends, good luck to them. I wish them well and many irrelevant (to me anyway) top scoring Achievements. But stop looking over my shoulder, stay out of my SP game and stop feeling so hard done by because I choose to play a different way than you do.

[Darth Krytie]

So basically you could not get the best ending with ME3 SP unless you used other means outside the game.

 

There's a chart somewhere that did the math. I accidentally ended up doing synthesis because I didn't realise there was a point of no-return on the beamies. And I didn't play through again until the patch came out. So, I couldn't tell you, personally, one way or another.

[Bugsie]

So basically you could not get the best ending with ME3 SP unless you used other means outside the game.

They patched it as TTTX said. Don't take my word for it take everyone who got 'the breath' scene and didn't play mp, oh and Bioware. But what would they know, it's only their game.

Tell me how you did it or upload a save to prove it.

*Massive massive facepalm* Sorry, I don't have anything to prove to you. So just stop.

[fchopin]

Yes after the uproar.

But it's not competitive. Unless Bioware says it is. I do not recall them ever saying the SP game was competitive. If someone wants to play competitive amongst their friends, good luck to them. I wish them well and many irrelevant (to me anyway) top scoring Achievements. But stop looking over my shoulder, stay out of my SP game and stop feeling so hard done by because I choose to play a different way than you do.

Nobody is looking over your shoulder; you are trying to look over other people’s shoulders who wish to play differently from you.
As i said you can play the game in any way you like as long as you let others play differently if they wish.
If the game is competitive or not depends how you view the games, myself i always see the games as competitive and see how others play so i can improve my tactics and combat and do not see anything wrong with that.

[TTTX]

There's a chart somewhere that did the math. I accidentally ended up doing synthesis because I didn't realise there was a point of no-return on the beamies. And I didn't play through again until the patch came out. So, I couldn't tell you, personally, one way or another.

Well I remember reading a post that the total number needed to get the "best" ending without changing galaxy readiness was 4000 and there were only like 3700 points with the day 1 DLC in ME3 when it first game out.

 

Edit: Or something like that.

 

Now back to topic.

ME3 had a story telling difficulty that made combat much easier then easy, but I never used it myself and there wasn't any loot in ME3 really so well.......yeah take it for what you will.

[Ieldra]

If you wish to play DAI with very easy mode that is fine but you have no right to say to other people or Bioware how they should play DAI.

Indeed not, but the problem is that if the game implements elements towards a competitive playstyle, that affects everyone. If the game gives the story-oriented players what they want, that would not affect the players who prefer a competitive playstyle. Oh, and if you feel that you are affected by how others play their game even while you are playing your own style, then it's you who should adjust your attitude.

 

Yet again: in a SP player, how others play their game should not matter to you in any way. If they use super-easy options, if they cheat, mod their way to super-awesomeness of their character's equipment, the only reasonable, the from my POV only acceptable way for anyone else to react is "Who cares. It's not my game."

 

Fortunately, by implementing different difficulties, Bioware has already made a statement that any competition you feel is strictly between you and others who agree to play under specific constraints and with a level playing field. So, please, play as you want and compete with your friends about who beats the Harvester in the shortest possible time. But leave us others out of it.

[TTTX]

They patched it as TTTX said. Don't take my word for it take everyone who got 'the breath' scene and didn't play mp, oh and Bioware. But what would they know, it's only their game.

Since it's a different team making this game and how fans reacted to ME3 MP and endings problems, I doubt BW is going down that road again, I will use this quote from the movie Lucky Number Slevin.

 

Anyway, now back to topic please.