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Meredith's Problematic Character


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#1
lil yonce

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Replaying DA2, I have noticed a few things about Knight-Commander Meredith that I find problematic, and I think her problematic character presents a few bad themes and messages to the narrative that could have been avoided.

 

Meredith represents the Alpha B*tch trope. The character is also presented as a psychopath via the Artifact of Doom trope but the player is unaware of her possession of the Red Lyrium Idol until the game’s end. This is problematic as unnoted for the majority of the game it perpetuates a common stereotype of psychopathic female authority figures using their power to abuse innocent men.  

 

The male Orsino is subordinate to this CRAZY WOMAN THAT SHOULD HAVE NO AUTHORITY!!! Meredith’s male Knight-Captain is presented as the upstanding mentally balanced Templar despite his breakdown at Kinloch Hold in contrast.

 

The game also uses a variant of The Cuckoolander Was Right trope. Surprise! She’s not Hysterical. This manifests where there is a marginalized character acting irrational and the audience is sympathetic to the more privileged character that points out the flaws in the marginalized character’s rationale only to have the plot twist to where the marginalized character was actually right! This revelation doesn’t lead to more respect for the marginalized character, however, because they are still portrayed as irrational. Its more like, “Hey, isn’t it weird that they turned out to be correct despite being totally silly?”

 

Meredith believes Orsino and a group of Circle mages and misguided Templars are plotting against the Templar Order. She believes this group is sneaking out at night to perform blood magic rituals and asks the Champion to investigate on her behalf. The party will mock Meredith’s unsubstantiated belief and investigative skills before venturing forth. However, when Hawke confronts the group of mages and Templars it is revealed that the mages are indeed homicidal blood mages and that Templar trust in them was misplaced.

 

Meredith turns out to be correct but has no reason to be. A disrespect is paid to her investigative abilities and her irrational beliefs compound in the quest’s finishing conversation. Meredith is presented as the root of baseless tension between the Templars and the Circle rather than as a competent Knight-Commander. This is in contrast to the Templar Emeric in The First Sacrifice who has nothing but a FEELING that the murders of Ninette and Mharen are connected but can be respected throughout the quest and is completely respected by the end of the quest arc in Prime Suspect.

 

EDIT: Meredith as the root of tension between the Templars and Mages is a legitimate viewpoint and I do not mean to imply otherwise. But IMO it should have been left to the player to decide that Meredith was an incompetent leader based on her policies and reasoning for them rather than accept the played up narrative that Meredith is an incompetent leader because she is being plainly presented as irrational and psychopathic. This could be accomplished by talking to her about her policies in Act I. I think that would have avoided the issues I have with her character.

 

Meredith’s suspicions of Orsino are treated similarly. In the end she was correct about Orsino being a blood mage and being involved in some sort of illegal or questionable activity outside the Circle but again she has no good reason to be and is presented still as the irrational psychopathic big bad.

 

The player is never able to talk to Meredith prior to Act III. No direct insight into her policies and reputation is provided. Rumors and heresay are instead provided to form an opinion on the Knight-Commander. Her interaction with the player in Act III is compromised by the Lyrium Idol. Under its influence she is progressively psychopathic. Interaction with Meredith in the beginning of the game could have resolved this issue IMO.

 

Thoughts?


Modifié par lil yonce, 31 mars 2014 - 02:13 .

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#2
teh DRUMPf!!

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 Good post. I agree on all points. By representing one side with an extremist such as herself, characters like Meredith trivialize the complexity of in-world issues that the writers want players to really think about. Don't know what they were thinking, just hope they don't try it again.


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#3
Xilizhra

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I disagree about most of this. While some of the gender issues might have credence, the fact remains that A. Orsino wasn't involved in any plotting, and B. Meredith's iron fist was in fact seriously deteriorating matters throughout the game. She was wholly unfit for her position; the fact that she's female may have been making a problematic statement, but given that we have Aveline as a counterexample of a female authority figure who's perfectly competent for the most part and never fails to be assertive (even continuing to be her husband's superior officer), I don't think DA2 has too many issues about women in power.



#4
lil yonce

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@Xil; Orsino was involved with Quentin. They exchanged correspondence on the Harvester ritual and blood magic that Orsino planned to use against Meredith. Even if only in self defense, he was still plotting and Meredith was right about that. And Orsino left Quentin books to help in his experimentation which in part leads to zombie Leandra. That's why I say Orsino was involved in a nefarious plot.

 

Aveline's competency can be argued in at least one circumstance, and Hawke can criticize her into leaving town. And Elthina is presented as ineffective.

 

I agree, Meredith and her policies were part of the problem, but the presentation of her character and policies is what I really have a problem with. Her strict policies are not really a result of a situation unique to the Kirkwall Circle or to the circle system in general but more the result of an irrational and then full blown psychopathic woman in power. Cullen though unfit for his position also is presented as the opposite.

 

And what HYR 2.0 said.



#5
Xilizhra

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@Xil; Orsino was involved with Quentin. They exchanged correspondence on the Harvester ritual and blood magic that Orsino planned to use against Meredith. Even if only in self defense, he was still plotting and Meredith was right about that. And Orsino left Quentin books to help in his experimentation which in part leads to zombie Leandra. That's why I say Orsino was involved in a nefarious plot.

He wasn't. The letter was old, from before Orsino cut ties with Quentin. And Orsino wasn't plotting anything; the Harvester ritual was an act of desperation.

 

Aveline's competency can be argued in at least one circumstance, and Hawke can criticize her into leaving town. And Elthina is presented as ineffective.

And in the previous game, Cailan was an idiot, Loghain drove his country into near-ruin, Howe is a fiend, and Eamon is just as manipulative as Anora. Even in this game, Dumar isn't really more effective than Elthina (though I grant that he at least tries). Rulers rarely come off well in the series as a whole, and when they do, the gender ratio thereof seems equal to me; Alistair and Anora are both effective, Justinia's been making at least some progress (and is a far better leader than Lambert), Aveline doesn't screw up all that often, and even at the beginning of the game, Athenril is clearly a more moral character than Meeran while being no less effective.



#6
lil yonce

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He wasn't. The letter was old, from before Orsino cut ties with Quentin. And Orsino wasn't plotting anything; the Harvester ritual was an act of desperation.

 

As the Harvester ritual required Orsino to secretively seek out knowledge he planned to use against Meredith, even if it was just to protect the Circle, I do kind of consider it actual plotting. The plotting was if she did X he would do X. An act of desperation to me would involve more spontaneous blood magic use over pre-learned ritual but that's just my opinion. I'll clarify that in the OP. I remember Orsino saying he put Quentin's research aside because it was dangerous, but I don't think that absolves him of his contribution to zombie Leandra in the end. He was aiding an illegal and unstable blood mage and his notes helped lead to zombie Leandra.

 

And in the previous game, Cailan was an idiot, Loghain drove his country into near-ruin, Howe is a fiend, and Eamon is just as manipulative as Anora. Even in this game, Dumar isn't really more effective than Elthina (though I grant that he at least tries). Rulers rarely come off well in the series as a whole, and when they do, the gender ratio thereof seems equal to me; Alistair and Anora are both effective, Justinia's been making at least some progress (and is a far better leader than Lambert), Aveline doesn't screw up all that often, and even at the beginning of the game, Athenril is clearly a more moral character than Meeran while being no less effective.

 

I think DA:O did a better job than DA2 in this regard. Meredith is a central character. A lot of attention is drawn to her late game and there are no comparable male characters in power to point to as equally irrational or psychopathic, or bad in some other extreme way in DA2 so I have a problem with her presentation. And Athenril will attempt to murder Hawke for subverting her authority and ruining a job to aid a Ferelden orphan she has slaving for her.



#7
thats1evildude

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Given that Meredith is essentially a gender-flipped Loghain - with the exception that her paranoia was at least somewhat justified - I don't really see why her being a woman is a problem.

#8
CronoDragoon

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I'm replaying the game right now and I don't really see many of the problems you're referencing regarding Meredith pre-idol. Post-idol Meredith is irrelevant to her character, and the game presents examples of both genders acting with the same amount of corruption due to the idol (Bartrand).

 

As for before then, last night I played Anders' quest "Dissent" in which Anders' opinion that Meredith is sanctioning the Tranquil Solution is proven incorrect; she rejected it. Grace was recaptured but has simply been reintegrated into the Circle, not killed or imprisoned or such. Thus far in the game (1/2-way through Act 2?) Meredith seems portrayed as a severe, reclusive, but rational leader.

 

As far as I can tell DA2 takes an appropriately chicken-and-egg stance on Meredith and blood mages. Are there so many blood mages in Kirkwall because her policies lead to drastic response, or are her policies so strict because of all the apostates and blood mages congregating there, which in turn leads to the creation of more blood mages, and the escalation continues?

 

However, I do think seeing Meredith in Act 1 would have strengthened the game. You'd have more info on why she's so severe straight from her mouth, and it would have made her descent into paranoia in Act 3 more interesting to behold.


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#9
Beerfish

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He wasn't. The letter was old, from before Orsino cut ties with Quentin. And Orsino wasn't plotting anything; the Harvester ritual was an act of desperation.

 

What sheer and utter tripe.

 

 

 

 



#10
KaiserShep

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Meredith's being a woman didn't seem to have anything to do with this. She could have been a male to the same exact effect.

#11
Beerfish

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As for Meredith's character, I'd say it is almost wholly formed by what happened to her family and sister.   This is before she went lyrium idol bonkers of course.  Her hard lines and stance is 100% understandable considering what happened family wise.  In the end though she went cartoon nuts at the end almost everything she was suspicious of was true.



#12
AlanC9

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I don't see why Meredith's sex is an issue. Surely we're allowed to put women in these roles, aren't we?

#13
CronoDragoon

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I don't see why Meredith's sex is an issue. Surely we're allowed to put women in these roles, aren't we?

 

Vague similarities to a trope make it an issue, I suppose, which really just means every role for either gender is an issue.