108 réponses à ce sujet

[JudgeQwerty]

I hope we're not going to have some retcon where the Illusive Man reveals his perfectly good reasons for wiping out a human colony Akuze, breeding Thorians, Husks, and Rachni which incidentally wipe out more humans, and murdering human marines just to cover your butt along with a highranking official or two.... then there's the Illusive Man's schenanigans in Ascension.

So these guys are still baddies, right? We'll get to whack a few Cerberus Commandos just before the Illusive Man reveals he had you cloned to take over his empire of darkness? It won't just be 'We're fighting for humanity' and I have three choices that say "Though you make me sick..." "You're right..." and "Go Cerberus!!"

Thoughts?

Modifié par JudgeQwerty, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:25 .

[phlying]

Raaawwwhhh, they're the devil. At the end of ME2, you're going to crash the new Normandy right into the Illusive Man's a-hole.

[Kiazus]

they killed kohaku, they are going to pay u_u

[Sialboats]

Cerberus = Evil.



A moral about-face doesn't seem to be consistent with Bioware's ability to tell a story. TIM likely will state that these atrocities were all necessary, but it won't make them any less morally repugnant. Renegade Shep will cry "FATHER!" and run into his arms, and ParagonShep will stick up his nose and walk out in a fit. Either way, Bioware will still make it clear that people died horrifically in some of Cerberus's actions. I seriously doubt they'd try to change that.

[MrRandomletters]

If the chance comes to dismantle Cerberus/damage them/take down TIM I am going to be all over it.

[SnowHeart1]

phlying wrote...

At the end of ME2, you're going to crash the new Normandy right into the Illusive Man's a-hole.

  If Shep asked, I'm sure Joker could arrange that.

[RyuKazuha]

I think with Cerberus it's not good guys or bad guys, it's a very ambiguous Organization,wich may held high reasons (such as defending mankind from threads) but acts with very disputable methods (like mentioned above experimenting on humans, studying the rachni and so on. It is yet to be revealed, if that organization strives just to defend mankind at any cost, or if there may be an agenda to allow humans dominate the other species.

[Ronin Zakath]

Cerberus is firmly in moral limbo



They conduct research to further humanity's role in the galaxy, yet many humans die in those experiments. Sacrificing the few for the many. Very renegade. Good for humans as a whole, bad for every other race.



If the Collectors were abducting Turians, do you think Cerberus would have bothered? Would they even have bothered resurrecting Shep and constructing the SR-2?



Their goals aren't really wholesome and their methods even less so. They are self-righteous. It's a very renegade-oriented group.

[Leonick91]

Sigh... because there is only one point of view right?



"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"

[ArcanistLibram]

They were never really evil. They were just dicks.

[SnowHeart1]

I confess to having watching some of the folks streaming the game before BW shut it down.  :ph34r:Going into detail would involve spoilers...  so I won't do that.  Suffice to say, yes, of course, some people are going to tell you Cerberus has an unfairly bad reputation and is just trying to look out for humanity.  Others will relate an impression more akin to that in ME1.  I do not believe the experiences you had in ME1 are going to be retconned in any fashion whatsoever.

[Ronin Zakath]

I can't imagine there are very many Quarians who are pro-Cerberus.

[Vaulin Faust]

 Their core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the Citadel races. Any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them.
Evil, no. Renegade, very much so. 

Cerberus doesn't pretend to be some holier than thou organization of skittles & gum drops. It knows what it does is brutal, unethical, and often times callous, but they  understand that ethics and an unwillingness to do the 
unreprehensible for the greater good, ultimately retards progress.

Cerberus would have dropped the bomb on Hiroshima in WW2, not because they're mean or evil, but b/c the projected casualties of an amphibious assault on mainland Japan were almost a million, and that the death of 200k civilians was an acceptable loss to end the fighting quickly.

Modifié par Vaulin Faust, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:40 .

[VettoRyouzou]

To sum it up.

Alliance Navy = Paragon.
Cerberus = Renegade.

Modifié par VettoRyouzou, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:35 .

[SnowHeart1]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Alliance Navy = Paragon.
Cerberus = Renegade.

Pretty much this, although it definitely puts a more "evil" tint on Renegade than is necessarily the case with respect to Shep.  I disagree with Vaulin's last point (two posts above); I think Cerberus's actions in ME1 are difficult to describe in any way but "evil". 

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:38 .

[Teknor]

Alliance is not paragon. Hackett made me do a lot of Alliance's questionable wetwork. Like that overlord in renegade mission who was screwed by Alliance.

[JudgeQwerty]

Vaulin Faust wrote...

 Their core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the Citadel races. Any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them.
Evil, no. Renegade, very much so. 

Cerberus doesn't pretend to be some holier than thou organization of skittles & gum drops. It knows what it does is brutal, unethical, and often times callous, but they  understand that ethics and an unwillingness to do the 
unreprehensible for the greater good, ultimately retards progress.

I notice that you only just ify their mindset and not actually adress how their actions somewhow benefit humanity. They're responsible for more human deaths than the Geth.

[Valmy]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

They were never really evil. They were just dicks.

Tell that to the rest of my unit on Akuze.

[FlintlockJazz]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

To sum it up.

Alliance Navy = Paragon.
Cerberus = Renegade.

This is pretty much how I feel it works too, and I think it will make the Paragon playthrough alot more interesting in the same way that playing a Renegade in a Paragon organization was interesting. 

People say this is going to be leaning more to the Renegade style, but consider this:  In the first one if you played a Renegade you were kind of the main character from all those renegade cops films, "Shepard!  In my office now!" type thing, while in this one it looks like a Paragon character is going to have to kick everyone's arse, and is going to have make decisions like the one between Bodhi and the Shadow Thieves in Baldur's Gate 2 (before finally kicking everyone's backsides anyway).

[Vaulin Faust]

JudgeQwerty wrote...

Vaulin Faust wrote...

 Their core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the Citadel races. Any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them.
Evil, no. Renegade, very much so. 

Cerberus doesn't pretend to be some holier than thou organization of skittles & gum drops. It knows what it does is brutal, unethical, and often times callous, but they  understand that ethics and an unwillingness to do the 
unreprehensible for the greater good, ultimately retards progress.

I notice that you only just ify their mindset and not actually adress how their actions somewhow benefit humanity. They're responsible for more human deaths than the Geth.

I'm glad you're able to cite accurate statistics concerning Cerberus' activities in relation the geth, or anyone. Regardless, Cerberus' objectives all point to humanity's ascension. Not a single one doesn't. 

But again, Cerberus isn't afraid to sacrifice humans or aliens to in the end push humanity forward. They'll break the 10 to improve the 1000. The needs of the many outweigh those of the few. 

[Mox Ruuga]

Kiazus wrote...

they killed kohaku, they are going to pay u_u

Who is Kohaku? There is no Kohaku. There never was such a thing as Kohaku.

Cerberus is just a "think tank", you know.

[Waco_Kid]

Ronin Zakath wrote...
If the Collectors were abducting Turians, do you think Cerberus would have bothered? Would they even have bothered resurrecting Shep and constructing the SR-2?

I think they would have resurrected Shep.  TIM may be renegade, maybe even evil, but he's not an idiot.  He realizes that Shep is the only one that really seems to realize how dangerous the Reapers are.  If you watch the launch trailer Miranda says something along the lines of "if we lose Shepard, we're going to lose to the Reapers."

[SnowHeart1]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Cerberus is just a "think tank", you know.

My jaw dropped a little when I first heard that.  Wow.  Okay, they're just like the Cato Institute. 

[FlintlockJazz]

Vaulin Faust wrote...

 Their core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the Citadel races. Any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them.
Evil, no. Renegade, very much so. 

Cerberus doesn't pretend to be some holier than thou organization of skittles & gum drops. It knows what it does is brutal, unethical, and often times callous, but they  understand that ethics and an unwillingness to do the 
unreprehensible for the greater good, ultimately retards progress.

Cerberus would have dropped the bomb on Hiroshima in WW2, not because they're mean or evil, but b/c the projected casualties of an amphibious assault on mainland Japan were almost a million, and that the death of 200k civilians was an acceptable loss to end the fighting quickly.

So you think performing experiments on humans against their will is not evil?  Your justification for those experiments is the same used by the ****s.  Also, does Cerberus act on behalf of a elected government or with the consent of an elected government?  By what right do they have to take these actions and to speak for humanity?  Spectres at least were acting with the consent and support of the Council, these guys don't  have that and yet think they have the right to allow the murder your entire family just for the sake of research, and will do it.

I'm going to look forward to see how my Sole Survivor Shepard is going to act in ME2.

[Nalantir]

Ronin Zakath wrote...

Cerberus is firmly in moral limbo

If the Collectors were abducting Turians, do you think Cerberus would have bothered? Would they even have bothered resurrecting Shep and constructing the SR-2?

They may have bothered, bacause the Collectors is a threat to humanity in a long run.