297 réponses à ce sujet

[Ozymandias23]

Wow, I've been avoiding this forum for several weeks now as my disappointment increased with every new reveal. I was very much on the fence about buying ME2 so I decided to dedicate a little time over the last few days to reading the numerous spoilers from those that have already received their copy of the game.



Liara's role is probably worse that I feared and that is based on reading the spoilers from someone who was a Paragon and took in a save game with a Liara romance.



In addition numerous reviews including OXM I think it was made mention of how disappointing the story was. A disappointing story from a games maker who pride themselves on their story telling!!! I won't post spoilers about the final battle but the general reaction seems to be 'meh'.



The new squadmates do not interest me in the slightest from what I've seen and read about them. The only bright spot is that by all accounts it's fairly easy to ensure the ones you really don't like die in the final battle .... just don't do their loyalty missions.



I have to admit I despise the idea of cyborg Shepard. I despise the idea of 2 years in stasis. I despise the idea of working with Cerberus. I'm stunned that Bioware could turn my enthusiasm for ME2 into disappointment and intense dislike in a few short months.



I think for those who feel differently I would echo what has already been posted in this thread. The chances of any of the ME2 squadmates returning for ME3, and that includes Garrus and Tali, are slim to none. It will more than likely be a new cast of characters for ME3 with an even smaller role for WLiara and the other love interests.



I think Bioware have sacrificed too much in their attempts to attract the FPS market.

[Ruud333]

Ozymandias23 wrote...
I think for those who feel differently I would echo what has already been posted in this thread. The chances of any of the ME2 squadmates returning for ME3, and that includes Garrus and Tali, are slim to none. It will more than likely be a new cast of characters for ME3 with an even smaller role for WLiara and the other love interests.

I think Bioware have sacrificed too much in their attempts to attract the FPS market.

I think the chances of the LIs from ME1 and ME2 returning in ME3 are not as bad as you seem to think.  Although the roles of the ME1 LIs are greatly reduced for ME2, I thought it had been hinted that was because BW wanted to make sure they are around in ME3, where they will possibly have a much larger role.   Maybe in ME3 they plan to go all out and have a squad made entirely of your past LIs....or maybe not

And RE fps market comment: ME1's combat played like an average shooter.  They could have left it how it was but it looks like they have taken the time to improve it (thank God).  If the side effect of this is that more shooter fans are attracted to the game, then its one I can live with

[Nozybidaj]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

Wow, I've been avoiding this forum for several weeks now as my disappointment increased with every new reveal. I was very much on the fence about buying ME2 so I decided to dedicate a little time over the last few days to reading the numerous spoilers from those that have already received their copy of the game.

Liara's role is probably worse that I feared and that is based on reading the spoilers from someone who was a Paragon and took in a save game with a Liara romance.

In addition numerous reviews including OXM I think it was made mention of how disappointing the story was. A disappointing story from a games maker who pride themselves on their story telling!!! I won't post spoilers about the final battle but the general reaction seems to be 'meh'.

The new squadmates do not interest me in the slightest from what I've seen and read about them. The only bright spot is that by all accounts it's fairly easy to ensure the ones you really don't like die in the final battle .... just don't do their loyalty missions.

I have to admit I despise the idea of cyborg Shepard. I despise the idea of 2 years in stasis. I despise the idea of working with Cerberus. I'm stunned that Bioware could turn my enthusiasm for ME2 into disappointment and intense dislike in a few short months.

I think for those who feel differently I would echo what has already been posted in this thread. The chances of any of the ME2 squadmates returning for ME3, and that includes Garrus and Tali, are slim to none. It will more than likely be a new cast of characters for ME3 with an even smaller role for WLiara and the other love interests.

I think Bioware have sacrificed too much in their attempts to attract the FPS market.

Couldn't have said it better.  It's interesting to try and speculate on the why's of all this though.  Did BW just miss the mark, is this the start of an overall move on their part toward more action/shooter type game play, are they just doing what they think is right to pull in a larger market, are ME writers spending too much time smoking the peace pipe?

The combat and mechanics of the game look solid, the customization looks great, the graphics looks decent, and the presentation will be well polished.  Of course you can say that about a lot of games from lots of developers.  What makes BW stand out is always the story and the characters.  Coming into a BW game and not being excited at all for the story and characters leaves me with a very "meh" feeling about the game and pretty low expectations for ME2.  Good thing is it should be easy for BW to meet those low expectations. <_<

At the very least we'll get a Talimance, that is one thing I'm holding out hope for that they have done well.  After that though I don't see much else in the game to hold my interest.  It certainly won't end up being a game I play dozens of times like ME1.

I suppose my biggest disappointment is two-fold.  One the missed oppurtunity to turn the ME franchise into something really spectacular and the stain the second installment is going to leave on the trilogy.  I suppose I can hold out hope that ME3 is awesome, but even if it is the trilogy as a whole is going to suffer due to the poor showing in the second chapter. 

[WilliamShatner]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

How do you ignore yourself? 

Please, do try and be less predictable.

Yes thats right, Im a whining fanboy who is criticising the game for lacklustre carrying over of decisions from ME1.

That makes me a fanboy of what precisely?

Of making a game catered just to your interests. Guess what? Bioware can't please everyone-- it's not possible yet. Now, I do know what you fear about the ME1 LIs because, yeah, I wanted to see Liara in ME2 quite prominently, but oh well. Simple thing is, you come off overly harsh, almost trolling, with some of your wording and phrasing.

With that said, I do side with you in disappointment with the lack of love interest involvement... but I don't think it's quite as dismal as you make it seem. I believe ME3 will feature them much more, because if it didn't, then why bother saving the characters for that game?

The characters we should be concerned about are the ME2 party members. If they all can die... then that means none-- or very few of them-- would have major roles in the third installment. Bioware also probably doesn't want to give too much away about the involvement of prior main characters. I think Ashley/Kaiden will be important when rescuing humans from the Collectors. Personally, I'd wait to play the game first before deciding how much more BW should've put the characters in.

No you can't please everyone, but surely the first people you should try to please are the fans that made the first game succesful enough to make the sequel possible! What went on in BioWare's head to think that any of those fans would be happy with what they did to these characters?

[Ruud333]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I suppose my biggest disappointment is two-fold.  One the missed oppurtunity to turn the ME franchise into something really spectacular and the stain the second installment is going to leave on the trilogy.  I suppose I can hold out hope that ME3 is awesome, but even if it is the trilogy as a whole is going to suffer due to the poor showing in the second chapter. 

I can understand peoples need to feedback about the limited screen time of the original LIs, but 'stain' on the trilogy?  You have not even played the game yet dude and you are already writing it off because of the lack of ME1 LIs and your (hopefully) premature disappointment in a story you have only seen a very small amout of?

WilliamShatner wrote...

What went on in BioWare's head to think that any of those fans would be happy with what they did to these characters?

From what I have seen on the forums is that there is only a small set of fans that are devastated over the loss of the LIs.  everybody else seems to range from "it's a bit of a shame but not a huge deal" to "didn't like the originals/not that bothered".  I guess without a poll function we will never be able to get a proper read on how many people are annoyed about this.

I dont think you can assume all the fans that made the first game successful are actually that bothered about this.

[glacier1701]

Ruud333 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I suppose my biggest disappointment is two-fold.  One the missed oppurtunity to turn the ME franchise into something really spectacular and the stain the second installment is going to leave on the trilogy.  I suppose I can hold out hope that ME3 is awesome, but even if it is the trilogy as a whole is going to suffer due to the poor showing in the second chapter. 

I can understand peoples need to feedback about the limited screen time of the original LIs, but 'stain' on the trilogy?  You have not even played the game yet dude and you are already writing it off because of the lack of ME1 LIs and your (hopefully) premature disappointment in a story you have only seen a very small amout of?

WilliamShatner wrote...

What went on in BioWare's head to think that any of those fans would be happy with what they did to these characters?

From what I have seen on the forums is that there is only a small set of fans that are devastated over the loss of the LIs.  everybody else seems to range from "it's a bit of a shame but not a huge deal" to "didn't like the originals/not that bothered".  I guess without a poll function we will never be able to get a proper read on how many people are annoyed about this.

I dont think you can assume all the fans that made the first game successful are actually that bothered about this.

 I do not put myself in the loss of the LIs camp because this issue is symptomatic of a much larger issue. The main HYPE about the ME universe and Shepard's story is that YOUR choices matter and will carry over into the next part of the series. It was even clearly stated what were considered the MAJOR choices in the eyes of the LEAD PRODUCER for the game. Yet it was then made clear by the very same people that some of those choices were not going to have consequences despite being MAJOR choices. The forum feedback was not pleasant to say the least and a lot of backtracking and 'clarifications' and 'it was taken out of context' started happening. Still despite all that a MAJOR choice has no consequence as so far revealed.

 To head off the inevitable feedback that BW knew would occur we got the 'have to save them for ME3 to close off POTENTIAL storylines' spiel. If BW thought that only a small minority of people would complain they would not have bothered to come up with this they would have said nothing. Yet they obvioulsy think that MANY people, loyal fans who bought ME1 and made ME2 possible, would be upset if they were not given some hope. Even that hope that BW gave out says only POTENTIAL and is no ironclad guarantee that anything will actual appear. BW have made some questionable choices in the eyes of many ME1 players but have at the same time done a disservice to those fans in the way that they have tried to handle those choices. To a large extent the people who made ME2 possible and who are upset over the handling of this are being counted as acceptable losses and being shown the door. We seem to be no longer wanted.

 It is clear that ME2 will be a success from the reviews that we now have available. Yet some of those reviews do show that there is a discontinuity between what was established in ME1 and ME2 in terms of background and character development. Yet because of the way reviews are normally scored this has NOT impacted the final scores for the game. I am almost certain that IF the reviews had in them another scoring criteria based on continiuty we'd not be seeing 90+% final scores but something down in the 70s. That would wake up BW to the fact that they have not done as good a job as they could on characters/stories because they failed to carry on with the old in a meaningful way. It also does not bode well for ME3 in terms of continuity because having done it once and getting good reviews why should they bother to worry about it? For a company that prides itself on characters and story they seem to have really misplaced a large chunk of it in ME2.

[Wakara Pezi]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Ronin Zakath wrote...

Maybe a game like the Sims is more your speed, Dinkus.

Or better yet, Second Life.

OH noes. Teh dreaded romance sims garbage. Im amz teh defeated.

Bioware has put MORE effort into romances and relationships in this game, genius. Im just pissed that the original ones only benefit from that through a minor role.

I agree.

[Kane-Corr]

Guys in all honesty, I wouldn't judge the game and its characters just yet. I know that some of you have seen others playing the game through live streams and whatnot, but it's different when YOU are actually playing the game. And don't give up on these new characters! Trust me, I was as mad as all of you guys when each of the newer characters were released. I used to think, "OK, so then we will have 4 new characters, and our returning squad?" But alas, when the rest of the new squad along with Garrus and Tali were revealed, I was devastated. Of course, I still knew deep down that Mass Effect 2 was going to be aweseom, but just not the same without Ash, Liara, and Wrex.





But then, as time went on, I opened myself up to the new characters, and the overlying situation that Shepard finds himself in. 2 years IS a long time, and people DO move on. Their role im sure will make sense in all of this. But you have to think...





Mass Effect 3 will be the FINAL game following Shepard. Bioware is going to go all out for this one. They KNOW that we want the original squad to return. But despite that, just give the new squad a chance, don't think of them replacing the old....because that will hinder your experience....









And what I'm willing to bet is that with enough time and replayability, you MAY like the new characters just the same, if not better!

[Gorn Kregore]

Oh Dinkamus. You never cease to amuse me.

[ToshiStation38]

Maybe you should play the game and actually see what role the old LIs play before saying they're insignificant.



I'm not saying their roles aren't diminished, I just don't see how you know that their roles are "pathetic".

[solvill]

Kane-Corr wrote...


And what I'm willing to bet is that with enough time and replayability, you MAY like the new characters just the same, if not better!

yep for me it's look like devs count on that  - like them = forget about the old one
Whatever they're planning for ME 3 i hope that all LI will get the same
Because now ppl who decide stay with the old LI have less content you now the "emotionaly engaging" content

[ratzerman]

WilliamShatner wrote...

No you can't please everyone, but surely the first people you should try to please are the fans that made the first game succesful enough to make the sequel possible! What went on in BioWare's head to think that any of those fans would be happy with what they did to these characters?

QFT.... very well said.  From everything I've seen and read, it's almost like Bioware went out of their way to make those who enjoyed the romances in ME1 feel unsatisfied with the game, and unwelcome in the community.  Odds are, that wasn't their intent, but the outcome is the same, regardless.

Maybe there is some grand plan at work here that we can't see.  Casey did mention ME2 as being the "troubled" time in the trilogy-spanning love story.  But it's tough, for me at least, to take him at this word.

[ERJAK2]

Kane-Corr wrote...

Guys in all honesty, I wouldn't judge the game and its characters just yet. I know that some of you have seen others playing the game through live streams and whatnot, but it's different when YOU are actually playing the game. And don't give up on these new characters! Trust me, I was as mad as all of you guys when each of the newer characters were released. I used to think, "OK, so then we will have 4 new characters, and our returning squad?" But alas, when the rest of the new squad along with Garrus and Tali were revealed, I was devastated. Of course, I still knew deep down that Mass Effect 2 was going to be aweseom, but just not the same without Ash, Liara, and Wrex.


But then, as time went on, I opened myself up to the new characters, and the overlying situation that Shepard finds himself in. 2 years IS a long time, and people DO move on. Their role im sure will make sense in all of this. But you have to think...


Mass Effect 3 will be the FINAL game following Shepard. Bioware is going to go all out for this one. They KNOW that we want the original squad to return. But despite that, just give the new squad a chance, don't think of them replacing the old....because that will hinder your experience....




And what I'm willing to bet is that with enough time and replayability, you MAY like the new characters just the same, if not better!

Liara is the only character guaranteed to make it to ME3

[Nozybidaj]

glacier1701 wrote...

It is clear that ME2 will be a success from the reviews that we now have available. Yet some of those reviews do show that there is a discontinuity between what was established in ME1 and ME2 in terms of background and character development. Yet because of the way reviews are normally scored this has NOT impacted the final scores for the game. I am almost certain that IF the reviews had in them another scoring criteria based on continiuty we'd not be seeing 90+% final scores but something down in the 70s. That would wake up BW to the fact that they have not done as good a job as they could on characters/stories because they failed to carry on with the old in a meaningful way. It also does not bode well for ME3 in terms of continuity because having done it once and getting good reviews why should they bother to worry about it? For a company that prides itself on characters and story they seem to have really misplaced a large chunk of it in ME2.

For the most part reviewers don't tune themselves into things like a fan would.  They aren't concerned about things like continuity of the story and what choices they made, who their favorite LI is, etc.  They care about presentation, combat mechanics, etc.  Based on the criteria most reviewers go by I am sure ME2 is deserving of the scores it received based on the combat and customization, etc.  If I am going to score the game from a personal standpoint, one that looks at things such as the continuation of "my" Shepard's story and everything that is involved in that and made my Shepard uniquely mine, I'd score the game much lower.

2 of what were said to be the most "major" choices (decision on the council and choice of LI) seem to have just about zero bearing on anything that happens in ME2.  The third most important choice (who you virmired) seems to have only a "window dressing" effect.

Consider me underwhelmed I suppose. <_<

[javierabegazo]

lol @ the "general reaction in reviews being Meh" That's just not true. Every review loves Mass Effect 2. Your views just happen to be jaded because of how connected you are to your ME1 LI, despite their role in ME1 not being as large as some people make them out to be, excluding Liara, her role is large ofcourse.

[ToshiStation38]

Nozybidaj wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

It is clear that ME2 will be a success from the reviews that we now have available. Yet some of those reviews do show that there is a discontinuity between what was established in ME1 and ME2 in terms of background and character development. Yet because of the way reviews are normally scored this has NOT impacted the final scores for the game. I am almost certain that IF the reviews had in them another scoring criteria based on continiuty we'd not be seeing 90+% final scores but something down in the 70s. That would wake up BW to the fact that they have not done as good a job as they could on characters/stories because they failed to carry on with the old in a meaningful way. It also does not bode well for ME3 in terms of continuity because having done it once and getting good reviews why should they bother to worry about it? For a company that prides itself on characters and story they seem to have really misplaced a large chunk of it in ME2.

For the most part reviewers don't tune themselves into things like a fan would.  They aren't concerned about things like continuity of the story and what choices they made, who their favorite LI is, etc.  They care about presentation, combat mechanics, etc.  Based on the criteria most reviewers go by I am sure ME2 is deserving of the scores it received based on the combat and customization, etc.  If I am going to score the game from a personal standpoint, one that looks at things such as the continuation of "my" Shepard's story and everything that is involved in that and made my Shepard uniquely mine, I'd score the game much lower.

2 of what were said to be the most "major" choices (decision on the council and choice of LI) seem to have just about zero bearing on anything that happens in ME2.  The third most important choice (who you virmired) seems to have only a "window dressing" effect.

Consider me underwhelmed I suppose. <_<

...

But you haven't played the game yet...

[Bootsykk]

...I think the idea is to give a sense of separation from your old LI. It's easy to stay faithful if they play a big role in ME2 or ME3, but the idea being that you two haven't seen each other for about 3 years makes staying faithful a little less realistic.

You must admit that the characters in ME2 are attractive, and a little bit mysterious. As Shepard, you are in space and have no clue if your LI is alive or has moved on from you after all that time. That would definitely make me feel really bummed and insecure. Enter someone who is wants to listen to what you have to say and seems to have some feelings for you.

I wouldn't stay faithful. Call me horrible, but... I don't think it's at all unrealistic.


EDIT: And Dink, you hopeless romantic  here's to hoping for a larger cameo role in ME3.



EDIT #2: Or... maybe you... aren't such a hopeless romantic  Well, um. If you're really so upset as to not have faith that they will play a larger role in ME3, then that really blows. You'd be missing out on the entire story... but I suppose that's not what you're playing Mass Effect for...?

Modifié par Juneya, 23 janvier 2010 - 07:41 .

[javierabegazo]

I've also watched a great deal of live streaming of the game, and I have to say, everything looks amazing. Especially the weapon and armor customization. It's not half as shallow as some speculate.



Also, i've seen at least 19 separate cutscenes that speak of the status of the council, each of them very different based on the live broadcaster's decisions.



The decisions won't make massive splits in the ending of ME2, and I don't think they should, but they greatly flavor the way cutscenes and the story pan out.

[Nozybidaj]

Kane-Corr wrote...
And what I'm willing to bet is that with enough time and replayability, you MAY like the new characters just the same, if not better!

A token black guy, a psychopathic bald chick, a frankenstein faced "perfect woman", an irrationally violent Krogan, an emo fish man assassin?  Yeah, not gonna hold my breath on that one.  Samara and Mordin look minimally interesting at least.  Really though once I romance Tali ME2 is pretty much done for me.

I look at the oppurtunity lost here.  IF, these characters are as developed and deep as they claim they are, all that time and effort would have been much better spent in making the previous squad that much deeper and developed.  It would have created a much more consistent and engaging story across the three arcs.  

Instead all this time was put into a bunch of characters whose sole purpose is to be used as cannon fodder in a suicide mission.  Sorry, I'd rather have had an epic ongoing experience rather than a throw away side mission for the second act.  Then when we come back to ME3, IF the old squad actually does return we'll be going into the final chapter with a group of characters that have had zero character development in the 4+ years since the first game and probably not much in ME3 either since the story is likely going to be much more focused on defeating the reaper threat (they do still exist don't they) instead of developing squad mates and these "ongoing" relationships.

Bleh, spilled milk and all that.

[javierabegazo]

Nozybidaj, it's so funny how you generalize and trivialize the ME2 companions, yet you act as if one can't do the same to ME1 companions.

[Kane-Corr]

I CANNOT wait for armor customization! haha thats gonna be one of my favorite part of the game!

[Hukari]

Ozymandias23 wrote...

Wow, I've been avoiding this forum for several weeks now as my disappointment increased with every new reveal. I was very much on the fence about buying ME2 so I decided to dedicate a little time over the last few days to reading the numerous spoilers from those that have already received their copy of the game.

Liara's role is probably worse that I feared and that is based on reading the spoilers from someone who was a Paragon and took in a save game with a Liara romance.

In addition numerous reviews including OXM I think it was made mention of how disappointing the story was. A disappointing story from a games maker who pride themselves on their story telling!!! I won't post spoilers about the final battle but the general reaction seems to be 'meh'.

The new squadmates do not interest me in the slightest from what I've seen and read about them. The only bright spot is that by all accounts it's fairly easy to ensure the ones you really don't like die in the final battle .... just don't do their loyalty missions.

I have to admit I despise the idea of cyborg Shepard. I despise the idea of 2 years in stasis. I despise the idea of working with Cerberus. I'm stunned that Bioware could turn my enthusiasm for ME2 into disappointment and intense dislike in a few short months.

I think for those who feel differently I would echo what has already been posted in this thread. The chances of any of the ME2 squadmates returning for ME3, and that includes Garrus and Tali, are slim to none. It will more than likely be a new cast of characters for ME3 with an even smaller role for WLiara and the other love interests.

I think Bioware have sacrificed too much in their attempts to attract the FPS market.

Pardon me a moment, if I may. But, I am curious, what is it about cyborg Shepard, or the shift in time/Cerberus that you find to be a deal-breaker for you? Not saying this as a snide commend, or something, but I am genuinely curious. Interested in getting different viewpoints, so to speak!

[Nozybidaj]

javierabegazo wrote...

Nozybidaj, it's so funny how you generalize and trivialize the ME2 companions, yet you act as if one can't do the same to ME1 companions.

Feel free to, I've never said no one is allowed a different opinion.

[ToshiStation38]

Nozybidaj wrote...

A token black guy, a psychopathic bald chick, a frankenstein faced "perfect woman", an irrationally violent Krogan, an emo fish man assassin?  Yeah, not gonna hold my breath on that one.  Samara and Mordin look minimally interesting at least.  Really though once I romance Tali ME2 is pretty much done for me.

I look at the oppurtunity lost here.  IF, these characters are as developed and deep as they claim they are, all that time and effort would have been much better spent in making the previous squad that much deeper and developed.  It would have created a much more consistent and engaging story across the three arcs.  

Instead all this time was put into a bunch of characters whose sole purpose is to be used as cannon fodder in a suicide mission.  Sorry, I'd rather have had an epic ongoing experience rather than a throw away side mission for the second act.  Then when we come back to ME3, IF the old squad actually does return we'll be going into the final chapter with a group of characters that have had zero character development in the 4+ years since the first game and probably not much in ME3 either since the story is likely going to be much more focused on defeating the reaper threat (they do still exist don't they) instead of developing squad mates and these "ongoing" relationships.

Bleh, spilled milk and all that.

*sigh*

Why are you so prejudiced towards this game? I understand previews seem to indicate some of the things you're saying as being true, but you act as if there is no possible way this game won't be a let down. Can you not admit it's possible you'll enjoy the game? It seems you've already decided this game is going to suck.

Modifié par ToshiStation38, 23 janvier 2010 - 07:44 .

[javierabegazo]

Everyone always loves to trash the ME2 companions, but many already thought the ME1 companions were greatly underwhelming and not interesting at all.



Garrus, who was a cop at C-sec

Kaiden, from his dialogues, many people thought were bland and uninteresting.

Ashley who some are still convinced was just a bigoted human soldier.



--



My point is that it's very shallow to trivialize anything especially when you don't have first hand experience with them as a character. Any character from a few words and glances can be trivialized, and will seem so until you actually experience their personality through dialogue. I like your posts, but I don't understand why you would include such generalizations in why you are underwhelmed about ME2.