297 réponses à ce sujet

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nozybidaj wrote...
 I'd rather they just reset us to level 1 and not given us any explanation as to why rather than some, "you're a zombie cyborg now"  "how'd they do that?"  "a wizard did it" explanation.

Oh ho, I think someone is in for a pleasent surprise when he figures out exactly how Cerberus raised Shepard back from the dead and what consequences that will mean later

[RazorNightngale]

Well after stumbling on the spoiler about Ash/Kaidan, I have to admit I'm pissed and I need to rant a bit.



I happen to like the FemShep/Kaidan romance and intended to keep the two of them together. But this just sucks. First I'll have to suffer through having the ME2 romance options shoved in my face (Iook, I like the characters so far just not as romances) and then when my Shepard meets up with Kaidan all I'm going to get is a "bugger off". (sarcasm)Great storytelling there Bioware (/sarcasm)



The only thing that is keeping me half-way hopeful is that the people who did the streams were more focused on getting the ME2 romances, so maybe they didn't romance Ash/Kaidan so possibly things will be different in my game.



But if that's not the case, I do think we need to press this issue so maybe ME3 does a better job.

[Hukari]

Howdy. Getting to the OP's question, I believe that we really cannot see the true effects of our LI's and influence until we actually play the game. Certainly, there are livestreams and other videos, but I presume they are only of the early to mid portion of the game. Suppose, then, that they assist with the latter portion?

And in regards to them returning in ME3, it seems -highly- likely. Bioware has stated that continuity will be a large factor in the Mass Effect series, and to ignore such a thing would be alienating to some of it's largest fans (Of which, it can safely be assumed, most people on this forum are, to one degree or another).

Now, I am not saying your point is invalid, Mr. Littledog, but I am simply of the cautiously optimistic side of things. No doubt we will have this conversation in five days time, or so, and I'm sure we'll all be better informed on the exact situation involved.

Though, there is one more point I wish to raise. This is strictly my opinion, and not meant to denigrate any others located in this thread or the forums therein... but I found the ME1 LI's, compelling, but also... very slow, so to speak. The characters had little room to grow, I believe, especially in the case of Kaidan, who pretty much underwent all his character growth prior to ME. So, as an alternate theory, suppose the reason they're excluded from ME2 as squadmates, is due to the fact that over the time that we're dealing with the collectors, those characters can grow and mature into something different? Experience more character growth? Just my two credits, so to speak.

[WilliamShatner]

I think the ME LIs had great potential for character growth in ME2.



Ashley for example could have a story based on her family being taken by the collectors and the dilemas for her and Shepard and their relationship that would follow. Shepard might have to choose whether to help her save her family or to concentrate on the mission, and then have to deal with the consequences of that on her and their relationship.



Just an idea.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Hukari wrote...

Howdy. Getting to the OP's question, I believe that we really cannot see the true effects of our LI's and influence until we actually play the game. Certainly, there are livestreams and other videos, but I presume they are only of the early to mid portion of the game. Suppose, then, that they assist with the latter portion?

And in regards to them returning in ME3, it seems -highly- likely. Bioware has stated that continuity will be a large factor in the Mass Effect series, and to ignore such a thing would be alienating to some of it's largest fans (Of which, it can safely be assumed, most people on this forum are, to one degree or another).

Now, I am not saying your point is invalid, Mr. Littledog, but I am simply of the cautiously optimistic side of things. No doubt we will have this conversation in five days time, or so, and I'm sure we'll all be better informed on the exact situation involved.

Though, there is one more point I wish to raise. This is strictly my opinion, and not meant to denigrate any others located in this thread or the forums therein... but I found the ME1 LI's, compelling, but also... very slow, so to speak. The characters had little room to grow, I believe, especially in the case of Kaidan, who pretty much underwent all his character growth prior to ME. So, as an alternate theory, suppose the reason they're excluded from ME2 as squadmates, is due to the fact that over the time that we're dealing with the collectors, those characters can grow and mature into something different? Experience more character growth? Just my two credits, so to speak.

Always nice to see someone add something to this discussion civilly. And lo and behold, you make some excellent points. Points I sadly must say I dont share, but I dont claim to have all the answers. Your guess is at least as good as mine.

[Hukari]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Hukari wrote...

Howdy. Getting to the OP's question, I believe that we really cannot see the true effects of our LI's and influence until we actually play the game. Certainly, there are livestreams and other videos, but I presume they are only of the early to mid portion of the game. Suppose, then, that they assist with the latter portion?

And in regards to them returning in ME3, it seems -highly- likely. Bioware has stated that continuity will be a large factor in the Mass Effect series, and to ignore such a thing would be alienating to some of it's largest fans (Of which, it can safely be assumed, most people on this forum are, to one degree or another).

Now, I am not saying your point is invalid, Mr. Littledog, but I am simply of the cautiously optimistic side of things. No doubt we will have this conversation in five days time, or so, and I'm sure we'll all be better informed on the exact situation involved.

Though, there is one more point I wish to raise. This is strictly my opinion, and not meant to denigrate any others located in this thread or the forums therein... but I found the ME1 LI's, compelling, but also... very slow, so to speak. The characters had little room to grow, I believe, especially in the case of Kaidan, who pretty much underwent all his character growth prior to ME. So, as an alternate theory, suppose the reason they're excluded from ME2 as squadmates, is due to the fact that over the time that we're dealing with the collectors, those characters can grow and mature into something different? Experience more character growth? Just my two credits, so to speak.

Always nice to see someone add something to this discussion civilly. And lo and behold, you make some excellent points. Points I sadly must say I dont share, but I dont claim to have all the answers. Your guess is at least as good as mine.

Quite so! It's why I'm waiting to see how things are going to be in ME2. And, I do hope that they show up again in ME3. That continuity would add an extra layer, I think, to the delectable cake that is the ME trilogy.

[MICHELLE7]

Well now I guess I know what they meant when they said that most of those complaining about the ME LI's not being in the squad would wind up cheating with the new LI's from ME2. There are no romances with the ME LI's. Sounds like it was arranged for you to get your heart broken by your LI (at least Kaidan and Ash because you're working with Cerebus) so that you'll go find someone new. Not good. At least knowing the spoilers I can prepare myself for the worst.



I don't know if anyone remembers this but I thought there was a question recently by some interviewer that asked Casey or one of the dev's about ME3...if they were working on it and they said something about they were coming up with new ideas for a new squad...which sounded like they were going once again with an all new squad. I think it was posted somewhere on the forums but I can't remember if it was the old one or the new one. Anyhow I don't hold out much hope for either the ME squaddies or ME2 squaddies to be on the squad in ME3.

[Nozybidaj]

Hukari wrote...
Quite so! It's why I'm waiting to see how things are going to be in ME2. And, I do hope that they show up again in ME3. That continuity would add an extra layer, I think, to the delectable cake that is the ME trilogy.

I can respect your opinion I guess I simply view it in a different light.  If they come back in ME3, especially if they have some sort of significant development it would break that continuity for me.  We'll have chapter 1 and 3 of their stories, but what happened in chapter 2?  If they come back with no development it would do the same for me, "what we've had 4 years pass and 'nothing' has happened to them?".

At this point, no matter which way BW would come at it, the story for the LI's is going to be very disjointed and contrived.  The choice to remove them from ME2 has really put a large stain over the whole trilogy for me.  BW's best option to have some sort of "smoothness" to the story is just to forget about them and play up the Bond/Kirk angle of Shepard's personality, all new cast and LI's come ME3..

[Mox Ruuga]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Well now I guess I know what they meant when they said that most of those complaining about the ME LI's not being in the squad would wind up cheating with the new LI's from ME2. There are no romances with the ME LI's. Sounds like it was arranged for you to get your heart broken by your LI (at least Kaidan and Ash because you're working with Cerebus) so that you'll go find someone new. Not good. At least knowing the spoilers I can prepare myself for the worst.

*****SPOILERS*****





Liara's not her... old self either. It's supposedly even worse, if you romanced her than not.





********

I don't know if anyone remembers this but I thought there was a question recently by some interviewer that asked Casey or one of the dev's about ME3...if they were working on it and they said something about they were coming up with new ideas for a new squad...which sounded like they were going once again with an all new squad. I think it was posted somewhere on the forums but I can't remember if it was the old one or the new one. Anyhow I don't hold out much hope for either the ME squaddies or ME2 squaddies to be on the squad in ME3.

I remember that one forum member met one of the devs in a gaming event, and it was supposedly implied that the "new squad for ME3" might happen. There were some damage control attempts by the same dev in the very thread, where he played puzzled and denied ever saying such.

I'd say a new squad for ME3, and perhaps Tali added for the freaks, is how it's going to turn out.

[AtreiyaN7]

For the love of God, is it possible to move on and get over this LI thing? That was Ashley in the launch trailer and obviously Ashley/Kaidan (maybe Liara) - your LI of choice - is taken by the Collectors (not spoilerish since the devs said that anything in one of their trailers is fair game). Of course, this could be limited specifically TO Ashley and Kaidan only, since they're the ones who actually are in the Alliance. At any rate, if it IS LI-based, then your Shepard is motivated in part to rescue the LI if you had a relationship with Ashley/Kaidan (or maybe Liara) in ME1 at least. Sorry if you don't like the part they play in the second act of the trilogy, and you're certainly entitled to obsess over it. Personally, I can accept this as part of the story (my femShep chose Kaidan), but you do seem to be Mr. Negative all the time so whatever. If you're not around for ME3, at least that would mean people don't have to endure two years+ of complaining about the old ME1 LI's after we're done with ME2 and waiting for ME3. However, I believe it's been said that if you start something with a new ME2 LI that there's going to be conflict in ME3 if the old LI is around. Whether or not that proves to be true or false in the future...well, we'll find out in a couple more years I guess.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 22 janvier 2010 - 07:25 .

[MICHELLE7]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Well now I guess I know what they meant when they said that most of those complaining about the ME LI's not being in the squad would wind up cheating with the new LI's from ME2. There are no romances with the ME LI's. Sounds like it was arranged for you to get your heart broken by your LI (at least Kaidan and Ash because you're working with Cerebus) so that you'll go find someone new. Not good. At least knowing the spoilers I can prepare myself for the worst.

*****SPOILERS*****





Liara's not her... old self either. It's supposedly even worse, if you romanced her than not.





********

I don't know if anyone remembers this but I thought there was a question recently by some interviewer that asked Casey or one of the dev's about ME3...if they were working on it and they said something about they were coming up with new ideas for a new squad...which sounded like they were going once again with an all new squad. I think it was posted somewhere on the forums but I can't remember if it was the old one or the new one. Anyhow I don't hold out much hope for either the ME squaddies or ME2 squaddies to be on the squad in ME3.

I remember that one forum member met one of the devs in a gaming event, and it was supposedly implied that the "new squad for ME3" might happen. There were some damage control attempts by the same dev in the very thread, where he played puzzled and denied ever saying such.

I'd say a new squad for ME3, and perhaps Tali added for the freaks, is how it's going to turn out.

Yeah that was the one. Not looking good.

On another note someone had said earlier that they thought Bioware didn't want to bring in the old LI's so as to not confuse new players.I don't think it would have confused new players at all to have an ME LI established as the love interest at the beginning of the game. The Witcher did this with Marigold...she had a past with Geralt.  In fact all the NPC's had a past with Geralt but because of his memory loss he found out about them through the conversations. They could have made it work if they had wanted to.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

On another note someone had said earlier that they thought Bioware didn't want to bring in the old LI's so as to not confuse new players.I don't think it would have confused new players at all to have an ME LI established as the love interest at the beginning of the game. The Witcher did this with Marigold...she had a past with Geralt.  In fact all the NPC's had a past with Geralt but because of his memory loss he found out about them through the conversations. They could have made it work if they had wanted to.

Bioware quite literally owned up to the fact that if it couldnt be summed up quickly and easily, they wouldnt spend much time on it in ME2, so as not to confuse the players who had no such prior experiences with these characters.

Thats probably why the ME1 LIs cameos appear to be so poor.

[glacier1701]

The problem with using the 'dont want to confuse newcomers to the ME universe' is that it insults the intelligence of those coming in. Being told that I am not getting something because it would confuse me hardly speaks volumes of the company that would use that to explain a non-returning item nor of who their own opinion of who they think their players will be. BioWare did use the excuse, unfortunately at first, for the whole old squad thing at first until they backtracked.

As to what the actual implication is of the Ashley moment I still have not seen which of the 3 paths it COULD come from it actual is from. To say that means we have an investment in our LI when only 1 of the possible paths that could have her as alive AND your LI is premature to say the least. Remember she could be alive and NOT your LI with Shepard having NO LI as a second path and alive with Liara as your LI as the 3rd path. Its hardly acceptable evidence at the moment because of that very lack of context in the ME storyline.

Modifié par glacier1701, 22 janvier 2010 - 07:57 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

There is no substantial difference between romance cameo and non romance cameo, at least upon first meeting. It merely alters the "flavor" I believe was the term Bioware used.

[MICHELLE7]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

On another note someone had said earlier that they thought Bioware didn't want to bring in the old LI's so as to not confuse new players.I don't think it would have confused new players at all to have an ME LI established as the love interest at the beginning of the game. The Witcher did this with Marigold...she had a past with Geralt.  In fact all the NPC's had a past with Geralt but because of his memory loss he found out about them through the conversations. They could have made it work if they had wanted to.

Bioware quite literally owned up to the fact that if it couldnt be summed up quickly and easily, they wouldnt spend much time on it in ME2, so as not to confuse the players who had no such prior experiences with these characters.

Thats probably why the ME1 LIs cameos appear to be so poor.

I think they underestimate the players myself...it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you had a past with someone. It could be established in a few quick lines even with an option to dump them and move on if you wanted too.  Another poster claimed they had simply used such statements as excuses for their own laziness. I wonder if he's right of if they are taking the easier road to make a quick buck. If it turns out to be as horrible as some are saying I would have gladly waited another year for a game that was more satisfying. As it is for now I have no intention of romancing a ME2 romance...none have seemed appealing anyway. I'm hoping that other aspects of the game will be good enough to warrant me playing it and keeping it for multiple play throughs...if not it will wind up on Ebay with Fable 2...another game that greatly disappointed me.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 22 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Id just wish they had taken the normal approach to crafting a trilogy that newcomers have to be smart enough to understand what they are getting into.



It takes a real idiot to walk into a trilogy without watching/reading/playing from the start, and not expect to have issues with understanding things.



Bioware clearly want to cater to idiots, rather than loyal fans who bought the first game.

[RazorNightngale]

While I’m trying to stay positive that spoilers posted are just for people who DIDN’T romance someone in ME1, I really can’t help but feel like BW is giving us fans of the old romances the big FU.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

As far as I am aware from everything I have heard, its a standard cameo and doesnt change much if you romanced them. Youll get a little change in dialogue, and maybe some hinting that a default wouldnt, but all in all in terms of content, if the default gets it, the romance import follows suit almost exactly.



Whether that changes later in the game? Cant say for sure yet. I certainly wouldnt be at all shocked if it didnt, and blown away if they did actually bother factoring them into the "after end game".

[syllogi]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

That was Ashley in the launch trailer and obviously Ashley/Kaidan (maybe Liara) - your LI of choice - is taken by the Collectors (not spoilerish since the devs said that anything in one of their trailers is fair game).

If you read the spoilers from earlier this thread, you'll see (and I can confirm) that this is not the case.  The non-romance meeting with Ash or Kaidan, at least, is extremely disappointing for fans of those characters.  I don't even want to complain, really, but what I've seen makes me sadder than I thought I would be.

For those who are annoyed by ME1 LI fans, as someone else said, Tali and Garrus got their recognition in ME2 because of fan support on the forums.  I can only hope, at this point, that being proactive and loud about wanting the ME1 LIs back in a major role in ME3 will be productive, because ME2 is going to be pretty bittersweet for me now.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

TeenZombie wrote...

For those who are annoyed by ME1 LI fans, as someone else said, Tali and Garrus got their recognition in ME2 because of fan support on the forums.  I can only hope, at this point, that being proactive and loud about wanting the ME1 LIs back in a major role in ME3 will be productive, because ME2 is going to be pretty bittersweet for me now.

Well have to make a mental note of eachother, and all agree to pull together after release, constantly spamming the boards with multiple threads about how great they are, and how unfulfilling thier ME2 role is.

Like the Tali fans did....

[robedlizard]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Okay by now Ive heard enough to unequivocally confirm all three original love interests have a pretty pathetic role in ME2. A cameo that is easily brushed off for those who didnt play ME1, and even more easily brushed off in terms of giving those who did and want to see them again something extensive.

With that in mind, and all of Caseys "theyre for ME3!!!" chatter, does that mean that until ME3 we wont hear a peep from them? Or are they likely to factor in to ME2s DLC at any stage? This is more a rhetorical question mind, as any response from Bioware would be "we will announce any plans when we are ready". Ive seen enough to know they dont care that much about this issue.

I ask the question though, since if their ME2 cameo is all we get from them until ME3, not only will this negatively impact interest in said character, I think it makes it all the more likely theyll simply receive another easily ignored sideline role come ME3.

I honestly think its pretty clear by now they wont feature in any DLC Bioware release, but I thought it worth mentioning if nothing else but for the sake that people still do care about these characters more than the new ones in ME2, and having already waited 2+ years for ME2 only to get this - the idea of waiting another 2+ years for quite possibly the same role is enough to put some people off the Mass Effect trilogy.

Edit: Should warn you, all fanboy whining will be ignored.

no one has played the game get.
no one knows how much impast the former LIs will have in ME2
small or large.
how ever we do know were the LI went after shepard died.
Ash- promoted
Liara- working for the shadow broker
Kaiden- still with alliance, from whats been said.

we will all have to find out when the game comes out.
assuming you havnt already spoiled things by looking at any leaked footage.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

robedlizard wrote...

assuming you havnt already spoiled things by looking at any leaked footage.

Not looked at, but read about in detail. So I know whats coming, and its hardly impressive.

[RazorNightngale]

I’m in.



One of the biggest draws for me for Mass Effect was that it was a continuous trilogy. I really wanted to see the relationship between Shepard and Kaidan (in my case) grow through out the series. And if it takes spamming these boards for years, to guarantee that ME3 is good, then I’ll do it.

[robedlizard]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

robedlizard wrote...

assuming you havnt already spoiled things by looking at any leaked footage.

Not looked at, but read about in detail. So I know whats coming, and its hardly impressive.

like what reviews?
cuz they are opinion and all the reviews that ive read havnt said anything about ME1 LIs
let only ME2 LIs besides that there are more options for LIs then there was in ME1

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

robedlizard wrote...

like what reviews?
cuz they are opinion and all the reviews that ive read havnt said anything about ME1 LIs
let only ME2 LIs besides that there are more options for LIs then there was in ME1

I was talking about streams of in game footage, that folks who are watching updated me on.

In terms of reviews I recently brought the lastest 360 mag, and in its review of ME2 it contained a (rather tame) criticism of ME2 for skirting on the major issues from ME1, and Kai/Ash were one of the specifically mentioned shortcomings. LIke I said, it wasnt vitriolic, since they dont care about the game that much, its a job to them, but it was a criticism none-the-less.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 22 janvier 2010 - 08:55 .