All choices, good or bad, come with a price. Since Dragon Age will(I'm assuming) use a realistic portrayal of morality, I'd expect a few of the more noble actions to bite you in the butt later on.
I'm fairly sure BioWare's on it.
Good deeds should not go unpunished.
Débuté par
Guest_simfamUP_*
, mars 31 2014 02:40
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 11:02
OdanUrr
-
- Members
- 11 060 messages
Well... not ALL of them, but I hope Inquisition will take into consideration that being good all the time wont really let you 'win' at life either.
So I hope that once in a while it'll play the Behlen card, being far more realistic about the consequences.
Hmm... who says what is 'realistic'? The day Dragon Age becomes Game of Thrones is the day I'll find something else to play.
- Baka-no-Neko aime ceci
#78
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 11:29
TataJojo
-
- Members
- 71 messages
I like it when there is no right choice. Each option has its pros and cons, and it's more of a moral challenge than a "what's the best outcome ?"
In The Walking Dead ( very minor spoiler of season 1 episode 3 I think ), you can chose to kill from a safe distance some random girl who's already bitten and being attacked by zombie or let her be eaten and be a distraction. If you shoot her with the rifle, well it's a mercy kill and she doesn't have to go through the process of being eaten alive but the sound attracts the zombies and you get less time to loot the store you were going after. I liked that.
- inarvan aime ceci
#79
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 11:31
upsettingshorts
-
- Members
- 13 950 messages
Yep. "No conclusively right answer" is good. It's also much easier to do in a game that doesn't have a morality slider, like Dragon Age, than it is in Mass Effect. Otherwise you have to awkwardly cram a choice that isn't Paragon/Renegade at all - like the two options in the Geth Base - into the system anyway.
- inarvan aime ceci
#80
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 11:49
KC_Prototype
-
- Members
- 4 603 messages
I want this! I'm a good guy at heart and my first character(human male warrior) is gonna be a good guy...but bad ass.
#81
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 12:38
naddaya
-
- Members
- 991 messages
A good example of this would be the Connor/Isolde choice in DAO. If you went to the circle tower to ask for help, it would be reasonable for the demon to attack the village again or attempt to mind control Teagan/Eamon's knights/whoever.
"Good deeds" shouldn't be punished because they're "good", but there should be the chance of naive/reckless acts having bad consequences.
- Naesaki, AlanC9, Rawgrim et 1 autre aiment ceci
#82
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 12:47
Fredward
-
- Members
- 4 996 messages
Actually only bad/stupid decisions should not go unpunished. But really DA is much, much less likely to exert outside moralistic expectations on you than ME was. Especially ME3. Man, felt like yelling "STOP JUDGING ME DEVS!" more than once there.
#83
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 12:49
nightcobra
-
- Members
- 6 206 messages
A good example of this would be the Connor/Isolde choice in DAO. If you went to the circle tower to ask for help, it would be reasonable for the demon to attack the village again or attempt to mind control Teagan/Eamon's knights/whoever.
"Good deeds" shouldn't be punished because they're "good", but there should be the chance of naive/reckless acts having bad consequences.
yes, But there should be (within budget of course) a way to be more prudent, or even give a "type of solution"
with your example of isolde/connor, i'd go with a "leaving a party member or more behind to rally the troops and hold the fort" solution
and handle akin to denerim's invasion where while you climb the magi tower, in between each floor you take control of the party that you chose to stay behind.
if you lose in these segments, they'd die. if you manage to hold the fort everything is fine (there might be some npc casualties along the way depending on how well you played)
ps: and no, i'm not making a save creep fix on this, my advice to those kind of people just play the game as many times as you want until you get your desired consequences, or lower the difficulty, or my favorite, keep playing and let your character live on with those consequences, who knows...next time you may be more skilled to actually save everyone.
#84
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 12:50
IC-07
-
- Members
- 628 messages
This post is black and white.
I'm sorry, though it's true that BioWare isn't CDPR, it definitely isn't that.
It's definitely that.
CDPR has nothing to do with it.
#85
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 01:31
naddaya
-
- Members
- 991 messages
yes, But there should be (within budget of course) a way to be more prudent, or even give a "type of solution"
with your example of isolde/connor, i'd go with a "leaving a party member or more behind to rally the troops and hold the fort" solution
and handle akin to denerim's invasion where while you climb the magi tower, in between each floor you take control of the party that you chose to stay behind.
if you lose in these segments, they'd die. if you manage to hold the fort everything is fine (there might be some npc casualties along the way depending on how well you played)
ps: and no, i'm not making a save creep fix on this, my advice to those kind of people just play the game as many times as you want until you get your desired consequences, or lower the difficulty, or my favorite, keep playing and let your character live on with those consequences, who knows...next time you may be more skilled to actually save everyone.
Yeah, more choices would be good. In the Connor/Isolde situation, the safest option was probably bringing the kid with you to the tower with Morrigan holding a sleep spell on him. It would take a lot of resources to do that for every situation though 
#86
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 01:57
Guest_simfamUP_*
Guest_simfamUP_*
-
- Guests
Maybe you should demonstrate it a bit more to have it insulted less. Like right now, for instance.
Whatever challenges are put in the game, what puzzles, whatever 'rational deductions' are necessary, they should be challenges a reasonably intelligent and through player has a good chance of solving the first time through.
In other words, most of the video game population should be able to do it. Which means that anyone who spends time on the BioWare forum is probably going to have a pretty easy time.
Refer to my avatar for my reaction.
First. Puzzles? Which pit of hell did you pull that from?
Second. To find the range median of 'intelligence' you'd need to be somebody else. Neither you or I can determine that, even statistics aren't reliable. However, I'm fortunate enough to be part of a demographic which doesn't relate to story-driven RPGs. Yet, when they do chance upon one, they are blown away by how clever they can be. Do not assume a negative response from something like Ned Stark's beheading (and before you use your other unrelated cards, I'm using him as an analogy.)
Third. Please don't fall to insulting others here. There are plenty of nice people here, getting on their bad sides is your fault. I suppose this is why the BSN is seen as 'toxic.' Forumites assume other forumites are nasty people and end up insulting one an other.
You've insulted me twice.
Have I fallen for the bait? No.
- Nefla et Dio Demon aiment ceci
#87
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 01:58
Guest_simfamUP_*
Guest_simfamUP_*
-
- Guests
It's definitely that.
CDPR has nothing to do with it.
CDPR are renowned for their morality system, or at least, their ability to determine the grey of it. BioWare? Notsomuch. But they certainly don't fall to the black and white category.
To expand on that - they don't rise to the level of CDPR, but I think it's because they don't aspire to, or don't really need to. Yes, ME is certainly an example of how their morality system sometimes sucks more than suckity the sucking sucker but they have done well in other areas too. Look at TIM. Through out ME2 he's your best friend and your worst enemy. An antagonist and protagonist rolled up in one sexy smoking motherhumper.
Sadly ME3 ruined him but oh well!
#88
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 02:08
Guest_simfamUP_*
Guest_simfamUP_*
-
- Guests
Actually only bad/stupid decisions should not go unpunished. But really DA is much, much less likely to exert outside moralistic expectations on you than ME was. Especially ME3. Man, felt like yelling "STOP JUDGING ME DEVS!" more than once there.
That is the essence of it. Morality is usually the basis where all choices are made upon. "Am I doing right?" "Am I doing wrong?" Usually, people go for what seems to be the 'good' path, expecting better rewards, or at least, a better outcome. It'd be nice if Inquisition stripped that thought process and made you think on your next decision based on how it might affect everyone, not just the person you want to save, or the people you want to liberate. Perhaps saving that person means the death of a thousand? Or liberating a people means supplying them with much needed resources, weakening your position.
Of course, these consequences shouldn't be there JUST to punish you. They should be there as long as they make sense.
Let me use another example not related by ASOIAF or TW2. It seems that every time I do a Panda comes to kick my balls. I thought pandas were cute :-(
Planescape: Torment.
There is a situation where a Damsel in Distress cries for help. Her sister is being attacked and she just barley escaped. You must help her before it's too late!
However, if you want to be gallant and chivalrous because "this is an RPG; it's what I'm supposed to do!" You get ambushed by a bunch of thugs. They are easy to dispose of, but still, the betrayal is what counts. The game completely sits you on your ass and says "think before you act."
With enough wisdom/intelligence you can spot out the flaws in her story, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. What's important is that making the 'good' choice ended up being a total mistake because you were stupid enough to save "the girl" in a place otherwise known for its criminal activities and high death rate. The setting tells you everything, but you don't pay attention "since it's just a game." Well, it's with these games where the medium transcends its ill-deserved reputation as mindless entertainment and goes beyond what people expect.
- naddaya, Karach_Blade et Mister Gusty aiment ceci
#89
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 03:36
Navasha
-
- Members
- 3 724 messages
Good deeds not being "punished" is no less then evil deeds not being "punished".
If they go out of their way to punish moral decisions, it pretty much destroys the gameplay. Just as they can't realistically punish the player for making bad decisions either. When a game starts having the main characters hands hacked off at the wrist for stealing, then I won't mind when they add in "realistic" outcomes for making the good decision too.
#90
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 04:21
AlanC9
-
- Members
- 35 798 messages
That said, I do hope that the DA:I writers don't set things up in such a way as to have the game celebrate the virtue of becoming a war criminal, in the manner of ME3!
You're only a war criminal if you're convicted. Shepard wouldn't be.
#91
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 04:23
AlanC9
-
- Members
- 35 798 messages
Good deeds not being "punished" is no less then evil deeds not being "punished".
If they go out of their way to punish moral decisions, it pretty much destroys the gameplay.
Is anyone talking about Bio going out of their way to punish decisions? I though the proposal was for Bio to not go out of their way. Some moral decisions would work out fine. Some would not.
#92
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 04:46
Sylvius the Mad
-
- Members
- 24 123 messages
Maybe you should demonstrate it a bit more to have it insulted less. Like right now, for instance.
Whatever challenges are put in the game, what puzzles, whatever 'rational deductions' are necessary, they should be challenges a reasonably intelligent and through player has a good chance of solving the first time through.
The point of the game is not to challenge the player. The point of the game is to provide the player an environment in which to roleplay his character.
But to do that well, the game's setting should not always react predictably.
#93
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 04:51
Nefla
-
- Members
- 7 742 messages
When you play as a good person, an upstanding hero you receive accolades from the people and gain a good reputation. You get warm fuzzies and most people like you. When you play as an evil or ruthless person, most hate you and may even betray you or try to kill you. I feel that being an upstanding citizen should sometimes require sacrifice. That might be turning down a reward "you keep it good sir, use it to help your family" or going through a dungeon impaired because you pushed someone out of the way of a poison arrow and got hit with it yourself, etc...I feel like having to make an actual sacrifice makes being good more meaningful. If it's easy it's not satisfying. That's not to say EVERY choice to do good should be difficult, some should just be as simple as you being nice to someone or warning them of dangers on the road ahead, etc...
#94
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 04:55
AlanC9
-
- Members
- 35 798 messages
When you play as a good person, an upstanding hero you receive accolades from the people and gain a good reputation. You get warm fuzzies and most people like you. When you play as an evil or ruthless person, most hate you and may even betray you or try to kill you.
Really? Putin seems kind of popular these days. With Russians, anyway, and that's his constituency.
It's only incompetent ruthlessness that's unpopular.
#95
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 04:58
Nefla
-
- Members
- 7 742 messages
Really? Putin seems kind of popular these days. With Russians, anyway, and that's his constituency.
It's only incompetent ruthlessness that's unpopular.
In previous games most NPCs have reacted to an evil/ruthless character with fear and disdain.
#96
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 05:02
naddaya
-
- Members
- 991 messages
In previous games most NPCs have reacted to an evil/ruthless character with fear and disdain.
Except for the people of Amaranthine if you choose to burn the city in Awakening, I don't remember anyone else.
#97
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 05:07
Nocte ad Mortem
-
- Members
- 5 136 messages
Really? Putin seems kind of popular these days. With Russians, anyway, and that's his constituency.
It's only incompetent ruthlessness that's unpopular.
It's pretty easy to be popular when nobody else is allowed a public opinion.
- Nefla aime ceci
#98
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 05:14
CuriousArtemis
-
- Members
- 19 656 messages
I like this idea 
Though I suspect we've all just been watching too much Game of Thrones 
- mousestalker aime ceci
#99
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 05:19
Nefla
-
- Members
- 7 742 messages
Except for the people of Amaranthine if you choose to burn the city in Awakening, I don't remember anyone else.
If you pickpocket people in a certain area, others will come to kill you for it, if you kill the mages in the harrowing chamber, Wynne basically calls you a monster in awakening and wont talk to you, Isolde's and Alistair's reaction if you kill Connor, Wynne's and Leliana's reaction if you poison the Urn of Sacred ashes, general reactions from people if you decide to kill them, extort from them, leave them to die, stuff like that. SWtOR does it to a higher degree and I think it's awesome and adds variety to your multiple playthroughs.
#100
Posté 31 mars 2014 - 05:23
AlanC9
-
- Members
- 35 798 messages
In previous games most NPCs have reacted to an evil/ruthless character with fear and disdain.
Right. That's a problem with how Bio handles ruthless characters, not a principle of sound design. They can handle RARR EVIL types, but they have trouble with more sophisticated versions.
ME handled this a bit better, but that's because Renegades aren't supposed to be evil in the first place.
- mopotter aime ceci
