30 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

I decided to do a Vanguard Earthborn/Ruthless  Shepard who will be mostly renegade. I also wanted to do quite a few Paragon actions from the main questline, and wanted to know how others who did the same thing went about it. Also post how rewarding the storyline was. PS was planning to save the Council, Feros and Kirrahe, but probably kill the Rachni Queen.

[BurningBlood]

I played my mostly-renegade ("renegon") as manipulative and somewhat mercenary, but not a jerk or a xenophobe.  I was nice to my crew and squadmates, although sometimes I just told them what I thought they wanted to hear to keep their morale high.  I did convince Kaidan to have a slightly more renegade outlook.  I always accepted every stupid side-mission from every moron with the balls to ask for my help, but once the mission was done I intimidated them into giving me twice the agreed payment.  I saved the Feros colony by threatening Jeong and using stun-grenades on the colonists, but only after my squad objected to shooting everything that moved; I don't recall whether or not I killed Shiala.  The Rachni are extinct - too little immediate usefulness, too much potential for future disaster.  Kirrahe survived, partly because he seemed a capable soldier and it would be foolish to waste such a valuable resource, but also partly because I wanted to personally kill as many geth as possible.  The Council died to ensure maximum force could be brought against Sovereign, rather than because of their total uselessness.

 

Actually that quote from Sten in DA:O fits well:  This Shepard "does not waste resources, and few are as valuable as lives."

 

All in all I enjoyed that playthrough.  I don't think I would have enjoyed a fully renegade xenophobic jerk, but a mostly renegade Shep was fun.

[draken-heart]

I have almost finished the game, and it has been fun. Also got Star Wars Force Unleashed II, but that is another topic for another forum.

[Endurium]

I recently did a mostly renegade run through all three games. Darth Shepard went for kill count, and if kill wasn't an option he went for maximum points. In at least one case that meant not punching Al-jilani but bull-rushing her with renegade statements, which angered Admiral Hackett and got me lots of points.

 

Ironically some kill options resulted in fewer renegade points than alternatives; I guess Bioware doesn't see murder as a big thing.

 

Was rude/short with crew and councilors but had a soft spot for Tali, who became his love interest in ME2 and remained as such in ME3. While Tali generally supported his renegade nature, she drew the line and complained (once only) when he killed the monkeys on that one planet.

[draken-heart]

I recently did a mostly renegade run through all three games. Darth Shepard went for kill count, and if kill wasn't an option he went for maximum points. In at least one case that meant not punching Al-jilani but bull-rushing her with renegade statements, which angered Admiral Hackett and got me lots of points.

 

Ironically some kill options resulted in fewer renegade points than alternatives; I guess Bioware doesn't see murder as a big thing.

 

Was rude/short with crew and councilors but had a soft spot for Tali, who became his love interest in ME2 and remained as such in ME3. While Tali generally supported his renegade nature, she drew the line and complained (once only) when he killed the monkeys on that one planet.

 

I have beaten 1 as mostly renegade, and the Ending was cool. Shepard's last comment was that the council was not going to win without her, and Anderson basically took charge. AWESOME!

 

Going renegade was so totally worth it for this run. Might have Shepard go Mostly paragon in 2.

[Shuidizi]

I did this, but most major decisions are still the same with my paragon playthroughs, except killing the council in the end. I must say I find the replacement council members in ME3 to be much much more interesting. But that is just me. 

 

Overall I think I like renegade options when it matters little, like being mean to Conrad or punching the reporter (all these miscellaneous things). But for bigger choices, like saving Wrex, later on saving Samara, curing genophage, blowing up collector base, etc. I like paragon options more (again the exception is council members, I find killing them much more satisfying, but that's about the only "big" renegade option I like).

[SwobyJ]

 

I guess Bioware doesn't see murder as a big thing.

 

They do. However, in the framework of the story, you're:

1)Military. Technically in your position, you're trained to kill for a goal.

2)A Spectre. Also allowed to kill if necessary (though not as for it as a soldier might be, the combination of the two = you take lives, it's what you do)

 

Most conversational killings make SOME sort of logical sense. Off the top of my head:

 

-Rachni? They were a huge blight on the galaxy..

-Exo-Geni guy? He was a direct threat to the scientists.

-Shi'ala? She is a total unknown. (Even in ME3, we still don't quite know the full implications of saving her + the colony.)

-Interrogating then killing any gangsters? Eh, they're gangsters and law enforcement in the galaxy is much more vague than our modern standards.

-etc.

 

The 'good' thing about Renegade is that it's all about minimizing potential complications, and always for a reason (even if not a moral one). Shepard may take pleasure in it at times, but its still *just* good enough to make a sense for him. More anti-hero than hero over time though.

 

By going even full-Renegade, you may lose allies, but you also make sure that nothing ever backfires. Really. Look at all the results of Renegade paths, and you'll see that in the script, nothing screws up for those close to the 'core Shepard' conception (Alliance, organics, immediate crew and squad). ((Exception may be that Save Collector Base mission, but even then, TIM gets the Reaper anyway))

The downside is obvious - you haven't worked for any 'better way' than your mission, so you've locked yourself out of potentially miraculous results. Paragon is more of a tightrope to get right, but when you do, it's good (and when you don't, it's chilling). Then there's that whole weird 'perfect Green' path, but that's a whole other matter in ME3

[draken-heart]

I did this, but most major decisions are still the same with my paragon playthroughs, except killing the council in the end. I must say I find the replacement council members in ME3 to be much much more interesting. But that is just me. 

 

Overall I think I like renegade options when it matters little, like being mean to Conrad or punching the reporter (all these miscellaneous things). But for bigger choices, like saving Wrex, later on saving Samara, curing genophage, blowing up collector base, etc. I like paragon options more (again the exception is council members, I find killing them much more satisfying, but that's about the only "big" renegade option I like).

 

For some reason, I can never kill the council, no matter how annoying they are. No amount of stuff people on the old forums or this one say. Just me though.

 

Did kill the Rachni. Like the Krogan more.

Modifié par draken-heart, 04 avril 2014 - 05:46 .

[BloodyMares]

Not sure that this is right topic for asking, but I wanted to be a renegon and to invest in both Charm and Intimidate. Did anybody do that? I'm not sure it's worth it because I'd rather invest in some combat, tech or biotic powers.

[Endurium]

@Swobyj - yeah I know Shepard is military. Thing is many of his kill options generate high renegade but one or two don't; it just struck me as inconsistent at the time. I still managed to max my morality meter even being nice to Tali.

[Endurium]

Not sure that this is right topic for asking, but I wanted to be a renegon and to invest in both Charm and Intimidate. Did anybody do that? I'm not sure it's worth it because I'd rather invest in some combat, tech or biotic powers.

 

It might depend on your preferred combat difficulty; if playing on an easier setting you could spend the points to unlock full conversation options, which makes sense to me because I prefer story over combat. If you're min-maxing on highest difficulty, probably better to spend the points elsewhere.

[themikefest]

For some reason, I can never kill the council, no matter how annoying they are. No amount of stuff people on the old forums or this one say. Just me though.

 

 

I don't have a problem letting them die. I have never saved the council

[DeinonSlayer]

The moment JayneShep knocked out Manuel on Eden Prime, I knew I'd found something special.

[draken-heart]

I don't have a problem letting them die. I have never saved the council

 

Like I said, for some reason, I cannot kill them. It just seems like a big middle finger to aliens

[themikefest]

Like I said, for some reason, I cannot kill them. It just seems like a big middle finger to aliens

I wouldn't say that. Remember Shepard has no idea how big a force the Geth have and when he/she says save/don't save the council, Hackett should be able to override that order since he can see the battle more than Shepard can and judge if he has enough to save the council or not. I don't know why it had to fall in the hands of Shepard to make that decision.

[draken-heart]

I wouldn't say that. Remember Shepard has no idea how big a force the Geth have and when he/she says save/don't save the council, Hackett should be able to override that order since he can see the battle more than Shepard can and judge if he has enough to save the council or not. I don't know why it had to fall in the hands of Shepard to make that decision.

 

Gameplay? SPECTRE status? Whatever you want to call it, I think it might have had something to do with Shepard being a Spectre which makes his/her job to protect the council as well.

 

I have completed Mass Effect 1, and have moved on to Mass Effect two.

[Farangbaa]

Not sure that this is right topic for asking, but I wanted to be a renegon and to invest in both Charm and Intimidate. Did anybody do that? I'm not sure it's worth it because I'd rather invest in some combat, tech or biotic powers.

 

All my ME1 Shepards finish with 12 points in Charm and Renegade. It's not a waste of points. Putting points in armor, that's a waste. I always play on Insanity, btw.

 

My last Shep finished with 100% Paragon bar and 90% Renegade bar or something ridiculous like that. First time I got both alignment missions.

[RedCaesar97]

All my ME1 Shepards finish with 12 points in Charm and Renegade. It's not a waste of points. Putting points in armor, that's a waste. I always play on Insanity, btw.

 

My last Shep finished with 100% Paragon bar and 90% Renegade bar or something ridiculous like that. First time I got both alignment missions.

But for which class? You can put points into both Charm and Intimidate on a Soldier and not lose anything since you can still max your other best skills. (Pistols, 

 

Not investing into armor is a bad idea for Soldier, Infiltrator, and Vanguard in my opinion. These classes greatly benefit from Medium/Heavy Armor.

 

Infiltrator armor skills also unlock Fitness which can make you practically unkillable when maxed.

 

Now, you can probably make a good case for the Vanguard not needing armor, especially since the Vanguard is already so starved for skill points.

 

And you could make a case for Soldier not needing anything more than Medium armor once you get Fitness, but Fitness combined with the extra damage protection of Heavy Armor makes the Soldier that much more unkillable. And the Soldier does not need that many skills: Pistols (Master Marksman), Adrenaline Burst (up to rank 5 to unlock Fitness), Fitness, and Solder + Shock Trooper/Commando. That is good for level 17; 41 points spent with 51 points remaining to level 50. You can spend just under 24 points into Charm and Intimidate and you will still have just over 26 points left to spend. Might as well put at least 7 of them into armor to unlock Heavy Armor.

 

Adept needs some points into the armor skill if you want pistols. If you do not want pistols, then yes, you can avoid it.

 

Engineer can probably avoid the armor, but the Engineer lacks a good defensive ability, and the Shield Boost ability granted by the armor skill is good for restoring shields if you need them.

 

Sentinel has no armor to invest in.

[Farangbaa]

Well, on this computer (the first time I played ME was on my old computer, on the new one I had to unlock everything again) I've never played an infiltrator. My first game was a soldier, where I did put points in armor (if that was necessary though I higly doubt.. read on )

 

Then I've played as a sentinel, engineer and adept. Not sure if I did a Vanguard run in between somewhere.

 

Anyway though, I don't think it would've changed much. I always pick assault rifle as a bonus power (my headcanon. I'm an alliance soldier). So putting points in pistols and such is never necessary for my Shepards. And by the time you hit a certain level, don't remember which exactly, you start finding such amazing armors that putting points in armor really isn't necessary, and you're going to regret having done so before. I also tend to pick really heavy biotic squads, so I'm not being shot at much to begin with. (Adept + Kaidan + Liara, Engineer + Liara + Wrex/Kaidan, Sentinel + Liara + Wrex) On the higher levels, with Damping skill maxed out, Engineer/Sentinel squadmates can be great, sabotaging entire groups with their huge tech mine explosions. But that is nowhere near as powerfull a crowd control skill as Liara's Singularity with negligible cooldowns once you find the Savant VII amps and up. (these savants can also be found as engineer amps btw... I recently discovered. The big cooldown reductions completely nullify Garrus' Adrenaline Rush ability though). Shepard's own Singularity is, of course, even more powerful. 

 

A team like Adept + Liara + Kaidan has:

3 lifts, 3 throws, 2 singularities, 3 statis, 2 warps (incredibly powerfull skill!) + 1 overload for quickly taking down shields (possibly 2, but then you must NOT take stasis on Liara) and a sabotage. That's insane crowd control. You could play completely without armor though I don't think it's possible to run around in your underwear like you can in DA:O

 

Engineer + Liara + Wrex/Kaidan

Less 'floating' CC (biotics), but you get techmines with a huge radius. If you want stasis on Wrex, don't get immunity on him. (same as with overload and stasis on Liara). This team also gives you 2 warps. Kaidan adds more floating and engineer CC.

 

Sentinel + Liara + Wrex/Kaidan

Almost the same as Adept. Pretty much unbeatable. 

 

Like someone said on here a while ago: enemies can't shoot at you while they are floating.

 

So in conclusion, I might've gotten away with not taking any armor points because of the way I play. There are missions that are very hard with this setup, like Luna. One of my last runs was Adept + Wrex + Garrus and no points in armor though, so you can do this without having a complete squad of floaters.

 

And just to perfectly clear: I do put points in my squadmate's armor, if they have them. But on the player controlled character it's unnecessary. You can avoid the damage almost as easy as you can soak it.

 

edit:

 

about the Sentinel having no armor skill: I put 0 points in barrier. This leads to having no stasis, but who cares when you're a crate hacking biotic beast?

 

I might also have to add that I'm pretty completionist on every run. Always hit level 55, so I tend to max out a lot of skills anyway.

[Kurt M.]

Most conversational killings make SOME sort of logical sense. Off the top of my head:

 

-Rachni? They were a huge blight on the galaxy..

-Exo-Geni guy? He was a direct threat to the scientists.

-Shi'ala? She is a total unknown. (Even in ME3, we still don't quite know the full implications of saving her + the colony.)

-Interrogating then killing any gangsters? Eh, they're gangsters and law enforcement in the galaxy is much more vague than our modern standards.

-etc.

 

- Rachni: They were indoctrinated by the Reapers by the time of the Rachni Wars. Are you gonna commit genocide with every species whose members had also been indoctrinated at some point?

 

- (I guess you're referring to Corporal Toombs): Because torturing other people for the sake of experimentation should get unpunished. Oh, yeah.

 

- Shi'ala: In fact, we DO know the fate of the colonists in ME3: They become a War Asset, and they use their Thorian-adquired mutual connection to kick some ass in the battlefield.

 

Funny you didn't mention Rana Thanoptis. Now THERE'S a ****** who deserves death in every, single playthough. Even 100% Paragon' ones.

[SwobyJ]

- Rachni: They were indoctrinated by the Reapers by the time of the Rachni Wars. Are you gonna commit genocide with every species whose members had also been indoctrinated at some point?

 

- (I guess you're referring to Corporal Toombs): Because torturing other people for the sake of experimentation should get unpunished. Oh, yeah.

 

- Shi'ala: In fact, we DO know the fate of the colonists in ME3: They become a War Asset, and they use their Thorian-adquired mutual connection to kick some ass in the battlefield.

 

Funny you didn't mention Rana Thanoptis. Now THERE'S a ****** who deserves death in every, single playthough. Even 100% Paragon' ones.

 

Rachni - They show themselves to be *incredibly* easy to subvert and take control of, due to their hive nature. Get their queen, and you got bloody millions of the bugs at your beck and call..

It's not that they're evil. It's that they're a massive danger.

Personally, I WON'T genocide them. However, the game does present us with the question.

The question is presented again. We leave the Rachni Queen alone, and it turns out that she is still taken and produces a huge part of the Reapers' forces.

What we do about the scenario is ultimately about us players and our Shepard's character.

For the rachni, it's not so much that they can get indoctrinated, it's that when a Queen gets indoctrinated or at least abducted, the whole species is pretty much screwed. That's not something that any of the other Milky Way species can claim.

 

Exo-Geni - No, I mean the rep on Feros, threatening everyone.

 

Shiala - True. We also see Shiala turn green, complain of health problems (we don't know if that may lead to something), unstable biotics, etc. They're suffering.

That's not reason to 'put them down'. And as far as we get to see in this trilogy, they're better off living and seeking treatment, than dead.

My only defense of Renegade here is that at the time, we seriously knew next to nothing about the potential positive outcomes. If Paragon, we work on nearly blind faith and hopes of heroism, than the known facts about Thorian control.

It's not a strong defense, and I in fact saved both Shiala and the Colonists. The only thing that would really justify Renegade here is if the next game is a sorta-sequel and tells a distinctly negative outcome of Feros' networked minds. We do know that Bioware wanted to readdress the Thorian, but was never able to.

 

 

Anyway, my point is that when our Shepards kill someone, it's *always* with a good reason behind it. Even when he takes pleasure in it, or does it more unnecessarily. There's no point in our trilogy journey that Shepard crosses over into villain - only maybe anti-hero. Murder is a big thing, but there's always something to keep total corruption from exactly occurring (Spectre authority, murdering murderers, 'killing' non-organics, doing it for the war effort, something in the way of an important goal).

 

Going Paragon brings great rewards, oh yes. That's definitely in the story too. The greatest personal rewards often come from being Pure Paragon, but the easier rewards seem to come from a combination of a Renegade framework (like Destroying the Heretic Geth helping to open up Peace) and Paragon momentum. Sometimes in this story you gotta kill, or at least allow a death. Often, you don't.

[BloodyMares]

Well, even though I don't like most Renegade actions, it occured to me that being Renegade is easier. Considering Morality Guides, you require LESS renegade points to do things than paragon points. For example, if you have 10 Intimidate (which requires to have ONLY 85 points!), there's no situation you cannot resolve. But if you desire to be a paragon, than you have to fill your paragon bar on the whole 75%. So I assume Shepard is a Renegon by default. Starting as a Renegade (because it's easy and kinda fun) but eventually gaining some wisdom and knowledge and becoming more welcoming, more friendly, less bastard. Not a pure Paragon, but not a total ******* either. At least that's how I feel.

[SwobyJ]

Renegade is base path imo.

 

But yeah, Renegon covers bases enough.

 

Paragade and Paragon are alternate paths and of the players' doing. I know it often doesn't seem that way, but that's how the story appears structured to me.

 

Paragade itself is pretty defined (at least for the specific Shepard character) by 'finding another way' to problems. Instead of blasting the threat apart, you can go for something else, even if it is technically more difficult, and may stop you from more immediate catharsis.

 

Over time, the decision to be more 'Paragon' becomes more difficult. Eventually to the point of struggling to Control the Reapers - this requires more EMS, but the Low form of it is available if you chose to keep the Collector Base in ME2 (something not done in the default file).

 

And I'll admit that ME2 gives us a bump up in Paragon focus. You're Fighting for the Lost, not just yourself, after all

 

ME3 is more Renegade focused, but complicates matters by bringing in the Peace-appearing solutions and promoting them by default (gotta cure the Genophage!, gotta fix this Rannoch conflict!, quick - solve the synthetic/organic conflict NOW!).

[Obadiah]

Like I said, for some reason, I cannot kill them. It just seems like a big middle finger to aliens

I usually save them as well, however the one time I did not I let let them die because they had become dangerously comfortable with their position of power and blind to the real dangers facing the galaxy.

Plus, storywise, I liked the idea of the humans and Shepard as agents of chaos upsetting the status quo.

[Farangbaa]

Well, even though I don't like most Renegade actions, it occured to me that being Renegade is easier. Considering Morality Guides, you require LESS renegade points to do things than paragon points. For example, if you have 10 Intimidate (which requires to have ONLY 85 points!), there's no situation you cannot resolve. But if you desire to be a paragon, than you have to fill your paragon bar on the whole 75%. So I assume Shepard is a Renegon by default. Starting as a Renegade (because it's easy and kinda fun) but eventually gaining some wisdom and knowledge and becoming more welcoming, more friendly, less bastard. Not a pure Paragon, but not a total ******* either. At least that's how I feel.

 

In the entire game there's only two 12-charm checks, of which one can be lowered by using charm/intimidate earlier (Saren on Virmire).

 

-Yeong (or however that's spelled) at Feros

-Saren before the final battle (which thus be lowered to 10 or 9 when charming/intimidating on Virmire)

 

This is irrelevant though, because there are so many instances in which you get Paragon points for free. Saving the Feros colonists (+2 each), doing their missions (+8 each), helping Kirahhe (+20 total).