226 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Kai Leng didn't look good on paper imo. He was already a terrible character in Retribution. ME might not be very realistic...but I just can't suspend my disbelief for him. He's one of these "super melee characters" who makes everyone an graduate of the Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy when he appears, and that wasn't any different in the novel.

I think Saren and Benezia had the most unused potential.

[TTTX]

 

Indeed. Despite eventually liking Javik, I still think the Protheans we were being shown and built up for should have been what Liara interpreted them as. I think what they did was far cheaper than what we were expecting, as there really any sort of "old wisdom" type of character in the ME series.

it would have been to much Mary Sue if Liara was also right about Protheans, she is already so engrossed other very important events in the ME universe that it's getting a bit to much as is.

 

I will put ME3 Liara on this thread, She is the Shadow Broker but doesn't do much in game other then finding the plot device at the start of ME3. (I'm probably get some flack putting Liara on the thread, but in the ME3 she was the freaking Shadow Broker and she couldn't give us any info on Cerberus or track them down or something. Samantha could and she didn't all those resources at her hand)

[Display Name Owner]

I'd say EDI. Normandy's AI who is released from shackles and has an arc of self discovery. Sounds cool. But I actually really dislike her in ME3, her philosophical stuff is as basic as it gets, the relationship with Joker is just ridiculous and I wasn't keen on the body she gets or the fact she even gets it. The wisecracks got strangely annoying too.

[Bob from Accounting]

I hope there's a romance with a a synthetic character in the next ME 4.

 

Is that the sole reason you consider the relationship 'ridiculous'? Because it's between a human and a synthetic?

[ArabianIGoggles]

I hope there's a romance with a a synthetic character in the next ME 4.

 

Is that the sole reason you consider the relationship 'ridiculous'? Because it's between a human and a synthetic?

Sorry bud.  You'll just have to settle for your Antonio Banderas love doll.  

[KaiserShep]

Actually, a synthetic LI option for ME4 would be interesting to see. The best part, however, would be watching the forum flame war to follow.

 

 

(I'm probably get some flack putting Liara on the thread, but in the ME3 she was the freaking Shadow Broker and she couldn't give us any info on Cerberus or track them down or something. Samantha could and she didn't all those resources at her hand)

 

 

To be fair, none of what Traynor did required outside resources, like agents or an information network. It was basically taking advantage of the Normandy's equipment, namely EDI.

 

Thinking about it though, LotSB creates some very annoying details in the monitoring of the Normandy's cameras. Like, how the frak did that stupid yagh manage to get in there? I shrug it off as a funny way to see what your companions are doing without going into the room. This is what happens when we put the security camera system the starboard cargo bay.

[Iakus]

I'd say EDI. Normandy's AI who is released from shackles and has an arc of self discovery. Sounds cool. But I actually really dislike her in ME3, her philosophical stuff is as basic as it gets, the relationship with Joker is just ridiculous and I wasn't keen on the body she gets or the fact she even gets it. The wisecracks got strangely annoying too.

 

The only problem I have with EDI in ME3 is that her robot is such an over-the-top lovebot.  Turned the relationship between her and Joker into an adolescent fantasy.

[themikefest]

I hope there's a romance with a a synthetic character in the next ME 4.

 

So we'll just call you Joker from Accounting.

 

If having a romance with a robot makes you happy, then more power to you.

[Manc4life7]

Gonna respectfully disagree with a few points of Manc4life7's:

 

 

Well, the communication through touch is exactly what the beacons are, so it makes sense and is no more space magic-y than the Protheans have always been.

 

 

 

I'd imagine he would be cold and calculating under normal circumstances. Between the death of his race and waking up surrounded by primitives I think we're seeing him quite out of his element. Besides that, his philosophy of "the strong deserve whatever they can get" is pretty cold and calculating. Not to mention his story about killing his former team. Also, dat glare:

 

*snip*

 

It's all good - like I said, I knew this wouldn't be a popular opinion.

 

With respect to the beacons - they aren't actually initiated via physical contact, are they?  I ME1 Shep doesn't touch the beacons, does he?  He/she just gets close and whamo - instant data steam into his/her brain, no contact required.  Meanwhile, Javik has to physically touch something/someone to "read" information.  As he describes it the process is more like some sort of cross-species pheromone based communication ability than a "telepathic" transmission of info.  I agree, they are somewhat similar, but not really the same (to me, at least).

 

And he does have his "cold, calcluating" moments, without a doubt.  Like I said, it's hard to put a finger on exactly what I find so "off" about the Javik we know.

[TTTX]

To be fair, none of what Traynor did required outside resources, like agents or an information network. It was basically taking advantage of the Normandy's equipment, namely EDI.

 

Thinking about it though, LotSB creates some very annoying details in the monitoring of the Normandy's cameras. Like, how the frak did that stupid yagh manage to get in there? I shrug it off as a funny way to see what your companions are doing without going into the room. This is what happens when we put the security camera system the starboard cargo bay.

I didn't say outside resources, I mention that Liara had way more access to resources to track Cerberus down, but she doesn't for some reason. 

[Hadeedak]

With a lot more screentime and buildup, I think I would have liked Leng.

 

As is...

 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

With a lot more screentime and buildup, I think I would have liked Leng.

 

As is...

 

*snip*

 

 

Wow... Shep kicks him in the 'nads?? I never noticed that.

 

Kinda dirty IMO.

[KaiserShep]

Dirty fighting is best fighting.

 

I didn't say outside resources, I mention that Liara had way more access to resources to track Cerberus down, but she doesn't for some reason. 

 

The reason I say outside resources is because Liara relies completely on information fed to her by agents on the field. If they're dying off, which they were, and Cerberus leaves no trail to lead them to any evidence of the location of their base of operations, which they don't, then how would she track them down? Traynor, on the other hand, has access to the Normandy's computer system, which is how they track Leng after fleeing the Citadel, and even then it required Miranda/Oriana to go from there.

[Hadeedak]

I laughed really, really hard when I noticed that in my screencap folder.

 

Dignity, man.

[Han Shot First]

The were two major problems with Kai Leng, as I saw it.

 

The first was the way the character was written. He doesn't have a lot of dialogue and the dialogue he does have is so atrociously written that it makes him across more like a petulant child than a formidable assassin.

 

The second problem was with his character model. It is hard to take any character seriously, no matter how written, when he looks like he was lifted from Double Dragon or Shinobi.

[KaiserShep]

That explains why Leng never comes near you again. He can't risk losing the Cerberus jewels.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The were two major problems with Kai Leng, as I saw it.

 

The first was the way the character was written. He doesn't have a lot of dialogue and the dialogue he does have is so atrociously written that it makes him across more like a petulant child than a formidable assassin.

 

The second problem was with his character model. It is hard to take any character seriously, no matter how written, when he looks like he was lifted from Double Dragon or Shinobi.

 

That does seem to be the problem, the game keeps telling us he is this formidable character who is as skilled or even more so than Shepard. But the combat scenes and cutscenes that involved him were just so terribly scripted (did any one beta test his combat scenes?), he just comes off as this joke villain on the level of Gilgamesh. I mean in combat he just flails around taunting Shepard while posing no threat to the player, those gang of Assault Troopers that show up with him on Cronos Station are more of a threat. And then the cutscenes aren't much better because they hijack combat from the player and then let Kai Leng win utilizing his same failed combat tactics.

 

Ultimately, I think he serves as a parable of how not to script combat and cutscenes. In Mass Effect, a third person shooter, I realize that cutscenes are needed to move the action along in anything that involves ships and Shepard acting stealthy (aka stuff that falls outside of the realm of a cover based TPS), but they should not replace any of the fight scenes. Kai Leng should have been scripted better so that Shepard actually lost to him based on the mechanics of the fight, not the magic of the cutscene. Because when it's done horribly it creates a huge disconnect.

 

Which is where his appearance and dialogue comes in for me. Characters in the game constantly tell us how Kai Leng is this formidable character on par or even greater than Shepard. Yet, when he appears on camera he comes off as a bumbling idiot who suddenly wins everything because the plot needs to happen.

[SwobyJ]

Jacob is 'ridiculous' in ME 2?

 

'Ridiculous'?

 

Does 'ridiculous' perhaps mean 'equipped with a functioning brain' to you?

 

I'd reply, but I'm too busy THROWEN UP A BARRIAH! BELIEVE IT! HAVE A NICE TRIP!

[Hadeedak]

True story: I died once in ME2 because Jacob knocked himself out with a krogan during Mordin's recruitment mission.

 

So here's what happened. I hear "Get over here!" And Jacob stands up and pulls an unshielded krogan.  It hits him in the face. At that point, I THINK a vorcha was shooting him, which actually did the damage that killed Jacob. But what I see is Jacob stand up and floor himself with a krogan to the head.

 

I was laughing too hard to breath and Shepard got obliterated by angry vorcha.

 

 

 

I actually like Jacob quite a lot, except for his romance in 3 (WTF). He's stable, grounded, reliable, and fairly competent. His advice is TERRIBLE, but so's a lot of Miranda's. He's pretty undemanding, and that's nice. I don't want the person cleaning the guns to gum them up with tears. Or break them with ragefists.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

True story: I died once in ME2 because Jacob knocked himself out with a krogan during Mordin's recruitment mission.

 

So here's what happened. I hear "Get over here!" And Jacob stands up and pulls an unshielded krogan.  It hits him in the face. At that point, I THINK a vorcha was shooting him, which actually did the damage that killed Jacob. But what I see is Jacob stand up and floor himself with a krogan to the head.

 

I was laughing too hard to breath and Shepard got obliterated by angry vorcha.

 

And now I'm laughing too.  That's hilarious. 

 

Actually, I liked Jacob's character in the beginning of ME2. He always seemed to be on Shepard's side at a time when others' motives were questionable, and I found his opinions about the Alliance and why he joined Cerberus interesting. That side of him was shown more in the Foundation comic (#5 & #6). But as the game started to focus on other aspects of the character... I guess I just thought his opinions were more interesting than his personality. 

 

I also hate the tone FemShep uses when speaking with him in ME2, but that's not his fault. 

[KaiserShep]

I'd reply, but I'm too busy THROWEN UP A BARRIAH! BELIEVE IT! HAVE A NICE TRIP!

YOU'RE DONE!

[The Sarendoctrinator]

^ Does he really say "Believe it!" in combat?

[SwobyJ]

^ Does he really say "Believe it!" in combat?

 

lol I hope not lol

 

I think he's just all "Believe it!" about the Suicide Mission. Yes Jacob, that's nice.

[DeathScepter]

The were two major problems with Kai Leng, as I saw it.

 

The first was the way the character was written. He doesn't have a lot of dialogue and the dialogue he does have is so atrociously written that it makes him across more like a petulant child than a formidable assassin.

 

The second problem was with his character model. It is hard to take any character seriously, no matter how written, when he looks like he was lifted from Double Dragon or Shinobi.

 

 

Your Second problem is not the problem.  Kai Leng was just poorly written. Like Much of ME3 Cerberus. Frakky Frakky, A lot of  Me3 is poorly written.