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Thedas metaphysics


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#1
Aulis Vaara

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I posted a theory in the "What do you think caused the veil tears?" thread this weekend, and it got me to thinking about a lot of the things that exist in the Dragon Age universe. I thought I would share some more of my thoughts.

 

The Veil

 

We know that the Veil was not always there, that there was a time before when the Dragons ruled the skies. What exactly this meant for the state of the world is hard to tell. Did magic run freely? Was the world malleable? Did spirits and demons share the world with elves and gods? We don't know any of those things.

What we do know is that at some point, someone thought it was a good ideas to separate the realms.

 

Now, we also know that there were but few sources of power to tap into in this realm. Lyrium might have existed, but you cannot enhance a magical connection when it does not yet exist. However, we also know that Dragon blood carries power, a lot of it. So, with no alternative, the being that separated the realms did so by creating a veil and binding it to seven Dragons who would later be called the Old Gods.

The world now consisted of three realms: Thedas, the Fade, and the Abyss (it will become apparent why I call it this later). The interesting thing here is that the Fade is the realm in the middle, not Thedas. Which weans that the Dragon Age universe is not Thedas-centric.

 

Elven mythology

 

I think elven mythology actually tells of these events, indirectly. The Creators and the Forgotten Ones did not get along because they were different. The Creators were just that: creators. The Forgotten Ones could not create by themselves, they could only take what another had wrought and corrupt it. Fen'Harel had a sort of middle ground, a more mundane form of creativity: the ability to see someone's creation and see how it can be applied to something else.

 

Fen'Harel saw a solution to the conflict between the two factions: give them each their own realm to do in what they pleased. So he suggested the Veil, and they made it happen. Of the three realms created this way, one was for the Forgotten ones: the abyss, one was for the Creators: Thedas, and one was a common ground, where Fen'Harel himself would feel most at home: the Fade.

The reason I divide up the realms this way, is because it makes sense with the lore. The Dalish say that Fen'Harel still stalks the Fade, which means that the other two realms are for each of the factions. I put the Creators in Thedas because I have a hard time seeing the Forgotten Ones residing there, but more on that later.

Locked in

 

Each of the factions were not restricted to their own realms at first. They could still hop from realm to realm by the use of magical artifacts such as the Eluvian. The problem here was that the Forgotten Ones still had the drive to destroy what the Creators created. This, obviously, did not sit well with the latter and thus they called upon Fen'Harel to find a solution.

Fen'Harel did what he is famous for, he locked both factions into their respective realms.

The Origin Of Elves

 

Now, there are many more things about Thedas than just the elven gods. So what is the nature of elven life in Thedas?

 

We know that spirits and souls are intimately tied to the Fade. The souls of the living go there or go through there when they die. But they don't seem to come FROM or THROUGH there when someone is born. We also know that spirits exist within the Fade but not how they come to be or how they might cease to exist.

What we can deduce from this, is that the secret to life is hidden within the Fade, though perhaps it is not the only place that secret can be found.

 

So in order to create life on Thedas, the Creators had to connect them to the Fade. This is why all the elves had magic at first, because they were all strongly connected to the Fade. Out of necessity, because there was no other way to give them souls, to create life. And this potentially also explains their immortality, as time is not important in the Fade.

We know that the elves have known about the Forgotten Ones, so their creation predates Fen'Harel's treachery. After the treachery, well, elves were still connected to the Fade, but no longer as strongly as that first generation was. They no longer had the capacity for immortality.

Those first elves faced the same problem, because the Fade is a realm that is shaped by the thoughts and the will of those dwelling in it, at least partially. However, because timelessness and immortality were things that humans could not conceive of, elves began to age by the very connection to the Fade that gave them their power and immortality.

A third and last factor, were the germs and diseases that humans brought with them. Elves weren't ready for any of those things, and in their panic they just ran.

The Origin Of Humans

According to the Chantry, the Dragons weren't created by the Maker. Since we know that not all life is connected to the Fade, perhaps the Dragons also hold the secret to life. Humans don't appear to have been created by the Elven pantheon, nor is there any other deity that has claimed the deed.

Did they evolve naturally in a world that was no longer on a malleable plane? It is possible, but it is also possible that they were created indirectly by the elven Creators. We have no substantial evidence to even make a guess.

What we do know is that when they came to Thedas, they brought disease with them, so the Forgotten Ones might have had an influence.

The Origin Of Dwarves

 

We know as little about the origins of dwarves as we do about the origins of man. We can attempt to make some deductions, however.

Dwarves think they were born from the stone itself, but the fact that there is a primeval thaig to find contradicts that entirely. We also know that once dwarves were able to do magic, but regardless of which steps are taken now, dwarves are not capable of it. From that we can deduce that it is not their exposure to lyrium that prevents their connection to the fade.

It is likely that Dwarves never had a connection to the Fade to begin with, and that this is actually what gives them their resistance to lyrium. How did they do magic it their primeval thaig then? Well, the place was filled with red lyrium and this gives magic-like abilities. But more on that matter later.


Lyrium

 

Lyrium is a rather large mystery as well. It's a substance that shares some characteristics with the Fade, and thus we can't help but wonder if there is a connection.

Lyrium can help in spellcasting, giving a bigger pool of magic/mana to work with. So like the Fade, it is a source of magic. Like the Fade, it also has the potential to remember. The dwarven Shaperate writes its annals into lyrium in an unknown way. The Fade also remembers the dreams of those who enter it for a time, and this is how demons and spirits learn of Thedas.

There is a connection between lyrium and the Fade, but there is aspect that is a big red herring: there's lyrium in the Fade. Thanks to Justice, we know that the lyrium in the Fade in not real lyrium, and thus that is not the connection we are looking for. The lyrium in the Fade is just another aspect of Thedas, gleaned from the dreams of mortals.

 

There is another important aspect of lyrium: it can be used to cut someone OFF from the Fade. So Lyrium likely doesn't have a direct connection with the Fade, but rather with the Veil.

The Song

Things we know that sing: the Old Gods, Lyrium, the Magisters.

Being that hear the song: darkspawn, spirits, dwarves.

The Old Gods sing to the darkspawn, as does lyrium sing to the spirits of the Fade and slightly to the dwarves. We know that lyrium is closely related to the Veil, and we will follow my theory that the Old Gods are anchors to the Veil, effectively making them "puncture" the fabric and touching Thedas, the Fade, and the Abyss.

What would this mean for the singing of the Old Gods and lyrium? Well, my theory is that anything trapped outside of its own realm can hear the song created by the interaction of his own realm and the realm he's currently in, i.e. they hear the veil.
 

Justice hears the lyrium ring because of the close connection that lyrium has with the Fade and thus the Veil. What exactly the connection is, we still don't know. Dwarves can also hear lyrium sing, though only quietly and not all dwarves can. We also know that dwarves are getting more and more infertile due to their exposure to the darkspawn taint. Perhaps this exposure also allows them to hear the lyrium sing as well, softly. To further substantiate this claim, the Grey Warden can also hear Justice's lyrium ring sing softly when the Warden gives it to him.

Darkspawn hear the song of the Old Gods because they are the anchors of the Veil and thus they form the connection between the Darkspawn's own realm (the Abyss) and the one they are in (Thedas). Why they do not hear the lyrium sing like Wardens and dwarves, I don't know. Perhaps they do, but the Old Gods drown it out? But why then don't the Wardens hear the song of the Old Gods? Neither does Justice, in fact, Justice seems to have an even higher resistance to the call of tainted beings.

There is something else that factors in here, and I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's the fact that dwarves, Warden, and spirits all have a soul. Actually, do spirits have a soul? 

The Magisters

 

The Magisters also sing to the Darkspawn, much in the same way as the Old Gods do, as far as we're aware. Magisters seem to share another thing with the Old Gods: body hopping.

The Magisters of old invaded the Black City and promptly got the powers of their gods. Funnily enough, the one who lured them to the Black City did not lie in that regard, but what the Magisters got was not what they wanted. They became anchors for the Veil with an extra function: to serve as a conduit for the taint into Thedas.

Nobody is aware of it, but the Black City is not within the Fade. It is beyond the fade, in the Abyss. It can just be seen from the Fade for reasons unknown. Afterall, if it were in the Fade, why would it be unreachable? And if it were in the Fade, why would the Magisters need to puncture the Veil to get there? Surely going there is spirit would be safer?

No, the Black City is in the Abyss, already corrupted by the Forgotten Ones and ready to spread the taint to the Magisters who are about to enter it. All with the express purpose of creating puppets in the realm of Thedas to start hunting the Old Gods to undo the Veil. The Magisters will be the first of the puppets and will serve as pipelines for their corruption so more can be made.

 

The Abyss

 

So why couldn't the Forgotten Ones just corrupt the Old Gods from their side of the Veil? Well, it stands to reason that when Fen'Harel sealed the realms, that he protected the Old Gods in all the realms. On Thedas, he buried them deep underground, in the Abyss he must have protected them in a similar manner. In the Fade they may yet fly free because it is the realm of Fen'Harel but he may have protected them just as well.

Red Lyrium and Darkspawn Blood

Red Lyrium and Darkspawn blood (or the taint) both corrupt things they come into contact with and they both carry power. These similarities make it seem to me that they are both the corrupted form of their respective substances on Thedas. So Red lyrium is a corrupted form of lyrium, and darkspawn blood is a corrupted form of blood. Both blood and lyrium carry magical power and thus might be the only things that can be corrupted in this way.

Red lyrium is probably a similar attempt to the darkspawn to gain a foothold in Thedas by the Forgotten Ones. Given that the primeval thaig was abandoned, this attempt seems like it was a failure, but maybe with the appearance of the Red Templars, this plan gets a second chance and might be (partially) responsible for the Fade tears.

 

Motivations

 

Why attack Thedas with all this corruption, what is the Forgotten Ones' goal? The simplest goal of all: freedom! They were tricked by Fen'Harel and they're not taking it, so they're attacking Thedas to get at the Old Gods. If they manage to destroy the Old Gods, the Veil will be gone and once again they will be free to corrupt all creations.

Needless to say, most people on Thedas haven't a clue about all this. Even the Magisters themselves have no idea what purpose they have and whose pawns they really are.

The only people who have any idea what is truly going on is Flemeth and family. My personal guess is that Flemeth is one of the Creators (a few seem to fit), though her daughters are just that: her daughters. They're special and they have power, but they aren't Fen'Harel or one of the Creators or Andraste, they're just Flemeth's daughters. That said, Flemeth and Morrigan clearly have different motivations.

 

In my opinion, Morrigan wants to keep the Veil intact, which is why she save the Old God's soul, while Flemeth, being one of the Creators wants to destroy the veil to regain her freedom. Or maybe Flemeth just realizes it's inevitable that the Veil will fall while Morrigan keeps trying. We'll have to find out in Inquisition.

 

The Nature Of Souls

 

I've tried to keep a somewhat meaningful thread throughout this whole post, but I think I failed at that. Sorry. Next on the list though, is the nature of souls. We actually have some important information regarding that.

 

In Dragon Age: Origins we were told that the soul of an Archdemon jumps to the nearest tainted being upon its death. If that being already has a soul, the soul is destroyed. However, we can prove that is completely false thanks to Legacy. In Legacy, after the defeat of Corypheus, he pulls the same trick as the archdemon and jumps to the nearest tainted being. But his soul is not destroyed despite the grey warden in question having a soul.

So, we can make the deduction that it's not the soul of the warden that slays the archdemon that stops the transfer, but rather it has something to do with that drop of archdemon blood n the joining.

Qunari

 

We know that Dragon blood carries power, that archdemon blood prevents soul transference, and that the Qunari species seems to have something to do with Dragons.

Lately a lot of theories have come up claiming that the Qunari are a magically altered race, having been changed to be more like Dragons. This would make sense if I am correct about dragon blood preventing soul transference, as this would make the Qunari the Thedas equivalent of Darkspawn. Rather than infusing species with the taint, they are infused with the source of power from the realm of Thedas: Dragon's blood.

 

If the Creators are imprisoned in Thedas, they would be their creation, and created for the same purpose as the Darkspawn: to find the Old Gods. Only, these Qunari will explicitly prevent any bodysnatching hijinks. That the Qunari are still following that path seems unlikely, but it might be the origin story.

-----

 

I'm tired now, so this will have to do. Thoughts?


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#2
fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb

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Humans came from H0m0 Erectus

 

Dwarfs came from H0m0 Shortus

 

Elves came from H0m0 Fonehom

 

The Maker evolved from an early hermphrodite slug that always haboured a jealousy of the H0m0 genus. The rest of its species are extinct.

 

Metabiology


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#3
Grieving Natashina

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Humans came from H0m0 Erectus

 

Dwarfs came from H0m0 Shortus

 

Elves came from H0m0 Fonehom

 

The Maker evolved from an early hermphrodite slug that always haboured a jealousy of the H0m0 genus. The rest of its species are extinct.

 

Metabiology

You missed one.  Qunari?



#4
Master Warder Z_

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You missed one.  Qunari?

 

Zevran covered the origins of the Qunari back in DAO.



#5
fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb

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Who do I look like to you? Darwin?



#6
fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb

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but one likely theory is that Qunari aren't a seperate species at all, but rather a "race" or breed. Created by selectively breeding only the horniest humans over thousands of centuries. (it wasn't hard)



#7
Grieving Natashina

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Who do I look like to you? Darwin?

Hey, to be fair, you started it.  

 

 

but one likely theory is that Qunari aren't a seperate species at all, but rather a "race" or breed. Created by selectively breeding only the horniest humans over thousands of centuries. (it wasn't hard)

I didn't say it was hard to think of.  I asked your opinion.  No need to be snide.



#8
fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb

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I wasn't being snide at all. I just did some research after you asked and this seems to be the leading theory.



#9
Grieving Natashina

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I wasn't being snide at all. I just did some research after you asked and this seems to be the leading theory.

Ah, okay.  Tone over text lost again.  My apologizes.  <bow>



#10
LunarMists

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I think this is abosultely fantastic. However. There are some points to make. 1. Flemeth is the reason that Morrigan even had the ritual to begin with, meaning that it's obvious that if the Old Gods are what's keeping up the barriers, then she wants it to stay up. 2. There are tales around DAO and DA2 about the Black City being the Golden City before the magisters arrived, as their greed is what tainted it and caused it to turn black, corrupting them and causing the first Blight. (There is also hints that the Black City was tainted long before the magisters arrived, but no one knows if this is actually true or not. 3. If the Black City wasn't in the fade, but in the "Abyss" as you call it, then A. The Magisters wouldn't have been able to get to it, seeing as how they broke into the fade to get it and B. Wouldn't have this opened up a hole for the Forgotten One's to escape?

 

Now. As for the rest, I think you may be onto something about the Dragon's Blood. I say this because in Lost Grove (I believe, but it may have been a different one), Yavanna states that Dragon's Blood is the life of the world and even states that Alistair has dragon's blood in his veins. There is also the idea the Flemeth could possibly be Fen'Harel, as it would make sense to her wanting to keep it intact. The thing is that, if you did the ritual with Morrigan, that means that Urthemiel survives, which wouldn't make sense to that being part of the reason the veil tears. In fact, saving Urthemiel would keep the veil relatively in tact, meaning that there would be another reason for why it would rip open.



#11
Maria Caliban

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We know that the Veil was not always there, that there was a time before when the Dragons ruled the skies.


We don't know this.
 

What we do know is that at some point, someone thought it was a good ideas to separate the realms.


Nor do we know this.

I hope that the developers keep the mystical physics of Thedas close to their chest, though I doubt that will happen. Like the existence of god, detailed explanations of why the magic works and the secret history of the world that explains all the odd stuff satisfies the worst instincts of fantasy fans.

#12
Vulpe

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3. If the Black City wasn't in the fade, but in the "Abyss" as you call it, then A. The Magisters wouldn't have been able to get to it, seeing as how they broke into the fade to get it and B. Wouldn't have this opened up a hole for the Forgotten One's to escape?

 

 

A ) The 3 worlds would be connected and there wouldn't be any way to travel from the Abbys directly to the physical world. The Fade would be the obligatory in between station. There could also be 2 veils :

one between The Fade and Thedas and one between The Black City and The Fade.

 

B ) If you think at The Black City as a prison and you add to that that the magister's ritual only slightly cracked it so that they could corrupt the magisters and create a conduit between them and all the darkspawns (including the Archdemons who would serve as signal amplifiers) then I see no problem to it.



#13
Jack Druthers

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@ Maria  In the silent grove yavana, a witch of the wilds confirms Alistair's dragon blood line and of a time before the veil when dragons ruled the skies.

 

Can I add something else into your theory that I believe runs into how some magic works.  Names and titles are important, and knowing the opposition's true name and maybe their relationships/ties to another can give the invoker for want of a better word an advantage.



#14
Herr Uhl

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Can I add something else into your theory that I believe runs into how magic works. Names and titles are important, and knowing the opposition's true name and maybe their relationships/ties to another can give the invoker for want of a better word an advantage.

 
Do you have any reason for thinking this from any DA material, or is it just that it is a generic fantasy trope?



#15
Aulis Vaara

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We don't know this.

Nor do we know this.

veil.png

 

I hope that the developers keep the mystical physics of Thedas close to their chest, though I doubt that will happen. Like the existence of god, detailed explanations of why the magic works and the secret history of the world that explains all the odd stuff satisfies the worst instincts of fantasy fans

 

 

What a load of nonsense. You have no right do deem anything good or bad, nevermind best or worst. And what's the point of a mystery if you're not going to get answers. You might as well not have it then, for all the difference it makes. Furthermore, curiosity is one of man's BEST instincts, because it is what has allowed us to build everything we have, including this magnificent internet that we're communicating on.

Now please kindly theorize with us.

 

----------

 

I think this is abosultely fantastic. However. There are some points to make. 1. Flemeth is the reason that Morrigan even had the ritual to begin with, meaning that it's obvious that if the Old Gods are what's keeping up the barriers, then she wants it to stay up. 2. There are tales around DAO and DA2 about the Black City being the Golden City before the magisters arrived, as their greed is what tainted it and caused it to turn black, corrupting them and causing the first Blight. (There is also hints that the Black City was tainted long before the magisters arrived, but no one knows if this is actually true or not. 3. If the Black City wasn't in the fade, but in the "Abyss" as you call it, then A. The Magisters wouldn't have been able to get to it, seeing as how they broke into the fade to get it and B. Wouldn't have this opened up a hole for the Forgotten One's to escape?

 

Now. As for the rest, I think you may be onto something about the Dragon's Blood. I say this because in Lost Grove (I believe, but it may have been a different one), Yavanna states that Dragon's Blood is the life of the world and even states that Alistair has dragon's blood in his veins. There is also the idea the Flemeth could possibly be Fen'Harel, as it would make sense to her wanting to keep it intact. The thing is that, if you did the ritual with Morrigan, that means that Urthemiel survives, which wouldn't make sense to that being part of the reason the veil tears. In fact, saving Urthemiel would keep the veil relatively in tact, meaning that there would be another reason for why it would rip open.

 

 

You make a lot of good points, and I may be wrong on some of the details. It's just a theory, afterall.

1. Flemeth is indeed the source of Morrigan's knowledge. However, having knowledge does not imply intent. Flemeth may have told Morrigan how the Veil works and her grimoire might contain the magical secret on how the soul transference works. Morrigan put two and two together because she thinks the existence of the Veil is a good thing, while Flemeth would rather plunge into the unknown (she does make statements to this end).

2. Corypheus said they sought the golden light. Now, this may mean that the city was actually golden and shone with its power, or there may have been something IN the city that shone a golden light. A lure to draw in the Magisters. The elves never speak of the golden city, only the magisters ever knew anything about it. So there is reasonable doubt whether it was ever golden to begin with. 

3A. One of the reasons I think the Black City is not in the fade is because spirits and demons are completely unfamiliar with the taint, according to Avernus. On top of that, no-one can actually reach the Black City in the Fade either, so the view of the Black City might just be a view on the Abyss.

You could be right though, perhaps the Black City is in the Fade and the Forgotten Ones needed the Magisters to break in to bridge the gap. The Forgotten Ones could only access the Fade from their side and not enter or cross it. So they left in the corruption and then had the Magisters unknowingly pick it up and bring it to Thedas. I personally think this one is less likely though, because the eluvian leads to realm beyond the Fade (the Abyss) and shows a dark city (the Black City).

3B. This is a very good point. I don't know. Maybe they could enter, but they wouldn't have any power on Thedas? Or maybe they would exactly be like the darkspawn, just following the song? So they would need the Veil to be destroyed first.

As for Flemeth being Fen'Harel. The elves believe that the Fade is the realm of Fen'Harel, which also makes sense because it is the middle of the realms we know of. So I don't see Flemeth being Fen'Harel, added to that she is not enough of a trickster, in my opinion. No, if anything she seems a different creator, maybe Dirthamen, the keeper of secrets. She refers to the elves as "the people", the name the elves gave themselves before humans arrived, and she seems to have some respect for them. From what lore we know, Fen'Harel doesn't seem to have any respect for the elves whatsoever, he's the DREAD wolf.

So that's my reasoning for Flemeth being one of the creators.

As for the Veil, well it's obvious that the Veil is not completely gone yet. Thanks to the deaths of all the Old Gods so far, and one of the Old Gods being gone from Thedas even if its soul survived, the Veil has been weakened. Add a magical war and the Veil becomes thin enough to tear or manipulate. That's my opinion anyway.

 

----------

 

A ) The 3 worlds would be connected and there wouldn't be any way to travel from the Abbys directly to the physical world. The Fade would be the obligatory in between station. There could also be 2 veils :

one between The Fade and Thedas and one between The Black City and The Fade.

 

B ) If you think at The Black City as a prison and you add to that that the magister's ritual only slightly cracked it so that they could corrupt the magisters and create a conduit between them and all the darkspawns (including the Archdemons who would serve as signal amplifiers) then I see no problem to it.

 

 

A ) Whether it's the same Veil or a separate one, they're always bound to the Old Gods, I think.

B ) This seems entirely reasonable.



#16
Jack Druthers

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@ Herr Uhl it is up to you how you interpret it really, but I can give some examples.  Idk whether they will stand up through DA:I they could be proved right or wrong I guess, It was just a suggestion to add to someone's theory.

 

If the Warden talks to Connor upstairs in Redcliffe and asks about the demon saying about how it is not a person it is a demon, you are given the option to ask the Demon's name.  To which Connor replies that she will not tell him because names have power.  

 

The encounter with Gaxkang http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Gaxkang  tells about how the warden is a beacon and that they are being watched.   We know a song and some stories led you to Gaxkang, (the notes say about how those caught up in the quest regret on hearing the name in the first place) Touching and reading or destroying a book released Xebenkeck.  There is still Ishmael and the Formless one to go though so we know little more than that.

 

The Black vial quest is similar http://dragonage.wik...The_Black_Vials these revenants were bound by their true name.  It just needed the vial to be touched to release them again.  We do not even know who they were in the first place.

 

http://dragonage.wik..._Lost_in_Dreams The Sloth Demon in the broken Circle quest was supposed to rule part of the fade, and had lesser demons guarding various parts of it.  Yevena, Slavren,  Rhagos, Uthkiel the Crusher and Verveel; yet the Sloth Demon was unnamed, I found that curious.

 

The Darkspawn Mother in Awakening was confused by addressing the Architect as the Father and he tries to correct her.  Then there's the First, the Herald etc, Idk whether that is relevant to this discussion.

 

We do not know who or what the father is, that could be someone else entirely, but it has been used when referring to the Maker, a term also used to describe Elgar'nan, the elven god.

 

From the Fen'harel codex - http://dragonage.wik..._The_Dread_Wolf The forgotten ones have names it is just they are not widely known. Anaris, Geldauran, Daern'thal, were associated with pestilence, malice, spite and terror.  In Redemption Fen'harel is invoked and the sky is seen to split much like in DA:I. I'm unsure that Redemption is included in the storyline of DA: or it is just a what if scenario.  

https://www.youtube....h?v=-093SQo9NWM

 

This is an observation in game from Origins. Some characters, particularly Sten, Zevran, Morrigan and Oghren address people without using their names, using the race or sex of the person they are talking to instead.  Whereas Alistair, Wynne and Leliana did.  Alistair and his "Alistair here" was almost constant in some parts of the game.  Shale refused to address anyone by name, using a descriptive term instead,  i.e painted elf for Zevran. Shale went on to explain it was a way of amusing herself, that, and she was called Golem most of the time might account for it. 

 

Varric prefers to give people nick names but not Hawk, Aveline even complains that he never gave her a nick name, it might be a coincidence.  We didn't hear enough to say if he does the same in DA:I

 

Flemeth is very cagey regarding names saying they are pretty but useless, she seemed amused at the Witch of the wilds title.  Why don't the elves call her Flemeth? They may only know her as Asha'bellanar.   Maybe they simply don't know her by any other name. That is conjecture on my part, I believe she was called Flemeth once, but she has lived for so long and we have little information.

 

When entering the bedroom at Redcliffe for the conversation with Morrigan about the DR.  She says "Do not be alarmed, it is only I.." and goes on to confirm that she and the warden are alone suggesting they can speak freely and that she has "announced myself to you"  The question I had there was, who could the warden actually be talking to if not Morrigan.  She was quite ready to tell the wardens who she was when they met in the Korcari Wilds.

 

In the Silent Grove, Yavana raises the corpse of Claudio Valisiti to question him about who his master is and his master's name.  She asks Claudio first to confirm who he is, and after threatening him with dire things, she demands his Master's name after repeating Claudio's name and station.   Claudio tries to refuse, when Yavana forces him to reveal the name of the magister Aurelian Titus his body  then disintegrates.  People have been talking about using necromancy in DA:I , so it may or may not happen.


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#17
Vulpe

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The Darkspawn Mother in Awakening was confused by addressing the Architect as the Father and he tries to correct her.  Then there's the First, the Herald etc, Idk whether that is relevant to this discussion.

 

We do not know who or what the father is, that could be someone else entirely, but it has been used when referring to the Maker, a term also used to describe Elgar'nan, the elven god.

 

 

 

The Father thing would make even more sense if you think of The Architect as one of the magisters that breached the Black City.

 

As for the name part: I think you might be right, but you kind of overrated. Some people just prefer to give nicknames.

 

The "names have power" thing would make sense if you are to connect them only to magic, like demon names and very powerful spellcasters. In those cases a name can be used as an invocation spell, a catalyst for one or a trigger for a spell ( like the self destruct one in the Silent Grove).



#18
Herr Uhl

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@ Herr Uhl it is up to you how you interpret it really, but I can give some examples.  Idk whether they will stand up through DA:I they could be proved right or wrong I guess, It was just a suggestion to add to someone's theory.

 

Thank you for the examples. I was just being curious as I hadn't noticed it.



#19
azarhal

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2. Corypheus said they sought the golden light. Now, this may mean that the city was actually golden and shone with its power, or there may have been something IN the city that shone a golden light. A lure to draw in the Magisters. The elves never speak of the golden city, only the magisters ever knew anything about it. So there is reasonable doubt whether it was ever golden to begin with. 

 

In World of Thedas, it mention how the Elves call the city the Eternal City and that they believe that it is where their Creators are trapped.



#20
Jack Druthers

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@ Herr Uhl  No problem at all.  The names have power idea is basically how could a being be summoned if you did not know their name. Bit like calling out Jack to crowd and twelve Jacks look up. If I had just put that in my reply, you would have been well within your right to shoot me down, so, like I say no hard feelings.



#21
Corker

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I detest this notion that the Veil is some manner of invisible "curtain" that separates the world of the living from the world of the spirits (whether it be called the Fade or the Beyond is a matter of racial politics I refuse to indulge in at the moment). There is no "this side" and "that side" when it comes to the Veil. One cannot think of it as a physical thing or a barrier or even a "shimmering wall of holy light" (thank you very much for that image, Your Perfection).

Think of the Veil, instead, as opening one's eyes.


--Codex Entry: The Veil

I think this fits in fine with Yavana's quote. "A time before the Veil, a time before the mysteries were forgotten" - there's a definite idea in some schools of mystic thought that we blind ourselves purposefully to the true nature of the world (have forgotten the mysteries) and that the work of the mystic is to learn to see it again.

CAMPBELL: Well, as I said, all you have to do is read the newspaper. It's a mess. On this immediate level of life and structure, myths offer life models. But the models have to be appropriate to the time in which you are living, and our time has changed so fast that what was proper fifty years ago is not proper today. The virtues of the past are the vices of today. And many of what were thought to be the vices of the past are the necessities of today. The moral order has to catch up with the moral necessities of actual life in time, here and now. And that is what we are not doing. The old-time religion belongs to another age, another people, another set of human values, another universe. By going back you throw yourself out of sync with history. Our kids lose their faith in the religions that were taught to them, and they go inside.

MOYERS: Often with the help of a drug.

CAMPBELL: Yes. The mechanically induced mystical experience is what you have there. I have attended a number of psychological conferences dealing with this whole problem of the difference between the mystical experience and the psychological crack-up. The difference is that the one who cracks up is drowning in the water in which the mystic swims. You have to be prepared for this experience.


-- Joseph Campbell ("The Hero with A Thousand Faces") in an interview

It'd be terribly interesting (to me) if Veil tears were actually the "psychological crack-up" Campbell mentions - some sort of mass awakening (Awakening?) of large numbers of people who are utterly unprepared for it. Clearly it must access some sort of Collective Unconscious for everyone to have the same bad trip (assuming everyone sees the same demons and such).

But I have a feeling the more literal interpretation of the Veil as a thing that can have actual tears in it is going to win the day. Metaphors and allegories can take on their own life like that. (See also: in DAO, the story of the elven Creators being imprisoned is called 'an allegory' in its codex entry; by DA2, it's presented more as a religious article of faith.)
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#22
Maria Caliban

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@ Maria  In the silent grove yavana, a witch of the wilds confirms Alistair's dragon blood line and of a time before the veil when dragons ruled the skies.


The other day, a person told me that there are chemicals in semen that, when ejaculated on a woman's cervix, alters the woman's brain patterns so they're more subservient and docile to the man. This is something I've been told more than once and by different people, so it must be true.
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#23
fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb

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Yes, it also gives you tighter pores.


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#24
Wolfen09

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the awakening idea is interesting, cause if you think about it in redcliffe connor tore open the veil.  what would happen if say an entire city worth of people suddenly awoke to become mages, that could possibly lead to a tear on a massive scale



#25
azarhal

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the awakening idea is interesting, cause if you think about it in redcliffe connor tore open the veil.  what would happen if say an entire city worth of people suddenly awoke to become mages, that could possibly lead to a tear on a massive scale

 

Connor existing did not tear the Veil. The demon who was taken over Connor did it to summons spirits/demons.