1089 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Question: do we even know, precisely, how much of a "war" is even happening? Given the templar schism, it might be nothing like how we'd imagine any sort of conventional warfare, just bands of rebels sniping at each other in the woods or something.

No, but all the Circles broke free, and Lambert officially dissolved the Nevarran Accord. The use of the term "Mage-Templar War" makes me think it's an issue that's not simply relegated to a few regions.

Or the mages can win.

I don't see why regional victories can't happen if all the Circles rebelled. Having mages win in Ferelden and Orlais wouldn't change the situation for the Free Marches or Nevarra, after all. Player choice can carry on without incident.

[Master Warder Z_]

Or the mages can win.

 

Wouldn't mind it, but it won't happen.

 

Because the possibility of a Mage victory, indicates a Possible Templar victory.

 

A Victory in truth, not some joke thrown together in an effort to stabilize the continent.

 

  A Return of the circle, but more then that. A complete destruction of the Mage capacity to make war in the immediate future, the executions, and tranquilizing of the Senior Enchanters, the Apprentices being taken to the Sundered Prison to be subjected to examination of demonic taint. The First Enchanters, being appointed by the only Fraternity to be allowed in the interim, the Loyalists. Honestly, The Mages would wish that they had walked out the door when Lambert offered it to their enchanters before the war.

 

They called the circles a prison? It actually would be one now.

 

Aka they go to their cells, they come out to eat, study and exercise and then they go back in.

 

Repeat daily forever.

 

  They can rot in their circles for a few generations and we will see if they want a return to how it was pre rebellion.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Wouldn't mind it, but it won't happen.

 

Because the possibility of a Mage victory, indicates a Possible Templar victory.

 

A Victory in truth, not some joke thrown together in an effort to stabilize the continent.

 

  A Return of the circle, but more then that. A complete destruction of the Mage capacity to make war in the immediate future, the executions, and tranquilizing of the Senior Enchanters, the Apprentices being taken to the Sundered Prison to be subjected to examination of demonic taint. The First Enchanters, being appointed by the only Fraternity to be allowed in the interim, the Loyalists. Honestly, The Mages would wish that they had walked out the door when Lambert offered it to their enchanters before the war.

 

They called the circles a prison? It actually would be one now.

 

Aka they go to their cells, they come out to eat, study and exercise and then they go back in.

 

Repeat daily forever.

 

  They can rot in their circles for a few generations and we will see if they want a return to how it was pre rebellion.

 

OK, I don't get it, A possibility of a Mage victory means that the Templar will win ....... What? How? But... WHAT

[Master Warder Z_]

OK, I don't get it, A possibility of a Mage victory means that the Templar will win ....... What? How? But... WHAT

._.

 

You don't get that because the mages could possibly win, the Templars would get the same treatment?

 

It goes Geth/Quarian, Then you can pick side a or b or chose C and get them both.

 

  Honestly i thought i explained this clearly.

[wcholcombe]

If they don't resolve the Mage templar war soon, it will naturally be marginalized to the point of having no true significance.  Neither the mages nor the Templars have the resources or manpower for a long drawn out conflict.  Some of ya'll may disagree, but considering the templars forswear any outside possessions or inheritances when they join the order (Evangeline in Asunder mentions this) it isn't like they have outside sources of funding to depend on and from the plan Lambert had to start off, it appeared they were going straight at the mages and weren't worrying about setting up any systems of any kind for sustaining the order.

 

The mages are in the exact same boat, except at least early on they will be much more of a fugitive role then the Templars will, so it isn't like people are going to be lining up to do business with them.

 

Add in to this that the Chantry is going to be rebuilding their forces,  I don't see how the mage templar conflict can at all be meaningful without resolving it soon.  If it desolves into this long running conflict between the two groups then it will marginalize into basically side quest similar to the the mage underground and the mercenary group from DAO.

 

I think it will be resolved, I don't see it being resolved for either a return to status quo nor outright freedom for the mages.  It will be degrees between those two depending on what the player does, but unless bioware outright shocks me, I can't see them allowing an ending that grants the mages outright freedom nor and ending that causes a full return to status quo.  Especially with their concerns about continuity of player choices.  There is literally no way for say MWZ and Xil to have compatible games if you give that wide of a berth of endings and don't do something along the lines of "Well thats what happened, but then this event occurred and completely changed everything to this" which basically removes any importance of actually allowing the differences in the first place.

 

Oh, and Uldred had been planning his move for months in advance if you read Irvings writtings, it wasn't circle autonomy, it was a power play by Uldred. He wanted to call the shots.

[Xilizhra]

Because the possibility of a Mage victory, indicates a Possible Templar victory.

No more than your scenario. The pro-templar choice could be helping rebuild the Chantry, but it might not change the mages' independence. If it'll be the true opposite to your original idea.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

._.

 

You don't get that because the mages could possibly win, the Templars would get the same treatment?

 

It goes Geth/Quarian, Then you can pick side a or b or chose C and get them both.

 

  Honestly i thought i explained this clearly.

 

You don't know for sure what the Mages would do if they actually managed to 'Win'

 

So, isn't it possible for a C option for the Mage/Templar conflict ? 

 

You tried to make your point, but it was buried beneath 6 feet layer Mage hate .

[wcholcombe]

OK, I don't get it, A possibility of a Mage victory means that the Templar will win ....... What? How? But... WHAT

He is saying that if Bioware makes an ending with mages defeating the templars and having freedom, then Bioware will also make an ending where the templars win and life gets much worse for the mages when they return to the circles.

[Wolfen09]

u know instead of fighting, they should have all just run to tevinter and bam cant touch this

[EmissaryofLies]

 

I think it will be resolved, I don't see it being resolved for either a return to status quo nor outright freedom for the mages.  It will be degrees between those two depending on what the player does, but unless bioware outright shocks me, I can't see them allowing an ending that grants the mages outright freedom nor and ending that causes a full return to status quo.  Especially with their concerns about continuity of player choices.  There is literally no way for say MWZ and Xil to have compatible games if you give that wide of a berth of endings and don't do something along the lines of "Well thats what happened, but then this event occurred and completely changed everything to this" which basically removes any importance of actually allowing the differences in the first place.

 

Oh, and Uldred had been planning his move for months in advance if you read Irvings writtings, it wasn't circle autonomy, it was a power play by Uldred. He wanted to call the shots.

 

Realistically you are likely spot on. 

[EmissaryofLies]

u know instead of fighting, they should have all just run to tevinter and bam cant touch this

 

I really want to see Tevinter. It seems that Bioware has denied us this. 

 

 

It aint right. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

u know instead of fighting, they should have all just run to tevinter and bam cant touch this

Tevinter is a huge hell hole for everyone, from all accounts. I don't think they'd end up happy with it. lol

[wcholcombe]

You don't know for sure what the Mages would do if they actually managed to 'Win'

 

So, isn't it possible for a C option for the Mage/Templar conflict ? 

 

You tried to make your point, but it was buried beneath 6 feet layer Mage hate .

 

 

No more than your scenario. The pro-templar choice could be helping rebuild the Chantry, but it might not change the mages' independence. If it'll be the true opposite to your original idea.

The whole point of the templars breaking from the Chantry was the Divine being going in their opinion soft on the mage question.  The goal of the the templars is at the very least to return the circle system to how it was functioning.  Considering that at the state of the world at the time of Asunder, the hard line templars were wanting to tighten the chain on the mages even more, I don't see MWZ's comments that far off base.  The man is extremely pro templar, but that doesn't make his arguments any less accurate on this question.

 

The templars going back to the chantry to rebuild it would be a templar victory about the same as the mages returning to the circles of their own volition would be a mage victory.

[wcholcombe]

u know instead of fighting, they should have all just run to tevinter and bam cant touch this

As Gaider has stated, if they all ran to Tevinter, they would just experience a different form of subjugation.  They would be free, but in the service and protection of a more powerful magister lord who in Gaider's own words might be little improvement at all over the circle.

[Xilizhra]

The whole point of the templars breaking from the Chantry was the Divine being going in their opinion soft on the mage question.  The goal of the the templars is at the very least to return the circle system to how it was functioning.  Considering that at the state of the world at the time of Asunder, the hard line templars were wanting to tighten the chain on the mages even more, I don't see MWZ's comments that far off base.  The man is extremely pro templar, but that doesn't make his arguments any less accurate on this question.

 

The templars going back to the chantry to rebuild it would be a templar victory about the same as the mages returning to the circles of their own volition would be a mage victory.

Yes, I know. The point was to create a scenario that was truly the opposite of his, to disabuse any onlookers of the idea that it was middle-ground in any way.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

He is saying that if Bioware makes an ending with mages defeating the templars and having freedom, then Bioware will also make an ending where the templars win and life gets much worse for the mages when they return to the circles.

 

Oh. Well that is obvious, but because of that it is not going to happen since DA:I is not the last game in the series, so, the next dragon age would have to have massive mutually exclusive content based on your DA:I ending. 

[EmissaryofLies]

It won't even be resolved in Inquisition. 

 

This conflict is at least a game or more away from completion. 

[Master Warder Z_]

He is saying that if Bioware makes an ending with mages defeating the templars and having freedom, then Bioware will also make an ending where the templars win and life gets much worse for the mages when they return to the circles.

 

indeed.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

As Gaider has stated, if they all ran to Tevinter, they would just experience a different form of subjugation.  They would be free, but in the service and protection of a more powerful magister lord who in Gaider's own words might be little improvement at all over the circle.

 

Yes, Fenris says so in DAII that Magisters have no problem enslaving other Mages who do not use blood magic, So, they would all have to resort to blood magery among other morally questionable practices.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes, I know. The point was to create a scenario that was truly the opposite of his, to disabuse any onlookers of the idea that it was middle-ground in any way.

 

Even though it completely is.

[Xilizhra]

Even though it completely is.

Then mine is too.

[EmissaryofLies]

I do not care. We should still see Tevinter. 

 

Their teasing is tiresome and I'm starting to lose interest. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Then mine is too.

 

._. How? Middle ground is middle ground, them both going back to what they were doing prior is middle ground.

 

Me getting my desire to actually see the Mage's punished for their egotism and insolence and the circle actually being a prison, wouldn't be a middle ground.

 

Mages getting independence wouldn't be a middle path either.

[Master Warder Z_]

I do not care. We should still see Tevinter. 

 

Their teasing is tiresome and I'm starting to lose interest. 

 

Then go elsewhere for gaming requirements?

 

Don't know what to tell you besides to just get over it.

 

*shrug*

[EmissaryofLies]

The status quo is only a 'middle ground' for mage haters and Templar supporters.

 

Not for mages.