1089 réponses à ce sujet

[EmissaryofLies]

Then go elsewhere for gaming requirements?

 

Don't know what to tell you besides to just get over it.

 

*shrug*

 

No.

[Xilizhra]

._. How? Middle ground is middle ground, them both going back to what they were doing prior is middle ground.

 

Me getting my desire to actually see the Mage's punished for their egotism and insolence and the circle actually being a prison, wouldn't be a middle ground.

 

Mages getting independence wouldn't be a middle path either.

No it's not. That's the end goal of the templars. Everything else is just extra toppings and your personal sadism.

 

An actual middle ground would be, say, allowing mages into the Chantry hierarchy.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

._. How? Middle ground is middle ground, them both going back to what they were doing prior is middle ground.

 

Me getting my desire to actually see the Mage's punished for their egotism and insolence and the circle actually being a prison, wouldn't be a middle ground.

 

Mages getting independence wouldn't be a middle path either.

 

Wanting to live freely without being watched by creepy drug-addicts is egotism and insolence?

[wcholcombe]

Oh. Well that is obvious, but because of that it is not going to happen since DA:I is not the last game in the series, so, the next dragon age would have to have massive mutually exclusive content based on your DA:I ending. 

See now that would shock me.  I can't think of a game I have ever played that devoted so much resources for content that might not even occur. Plus, how do you develop further books and novels for the world if there isn't some set continuity that matches up.

 

Bioware may do this, but I doubt they will make the game resolutions that divergent that Xil and MWZ are both able to happily do what they want with the MvT war and the games be at all compatible or the same world even moving forward.

 

Bioware would have to basically develop two different game settings in regards to the game moving forward and that is a lot of resources to devote to things people might not ever use.  I just don't see that happening.

 

Just take DAO for example, if the circle of ferelden had been granted independence and Ferelden hadn't back down from the Chantry, DAI would be completely different then the experience we will be playing because all of a sudden you would have a set of players who had a fortress for the mage rebellion in the heart of ferelden and that is where the mage templar conflict would be centered, except you would have the templars attacking a soveriegn group recognized by the governing entity of that country. It is way too much to expect them to be able to account for.

[wcholcombe]

._. How? Middle ground is middle ground, them both going back to what they were doing prior is middle ground.

 

Me getting my desire to actually see the Mage's punished for their egotism and insolence and the circle actually being a prison, wouldn't be a middle ground.

 

Mages getting independence wouldn't be a middle path either.

I have to agree with Xil on this, that wasn't the argument I was referring to but, the middle ground would include the circle towers, but it would be a severe adjustment on the restrictions and the way it was handled.  I  see mages being allowed to live outside the tower after passing their harrowing but still being subject to oversight by a templar/mage coalition of sorts still under the auspices of the Chantry as the middle ground idea.  This is only natural as it has been my idea so of course I see it as middle ground. But it would also ****** off enough of both sides on not getting everything they want that I would feel secure in it being the middle ground.

[Master Warder Z_]

No it's not. That's the end goal of the templars. Everything else is just extra toppings and your personal sadism.

 

An actual middle ground would be, say, allowing mages into the Chantry hierarchy.

 

Depends upon the Templars, Lambert wanted to kill every mage in the Reach, Which while admittedly isn't killing all the mages, it was killing all the ones who were rebelling, so I'd say its a pretty divergent list of agenda's even among the Templars.

 

Xill was that an insult? Coming from you?   That's just adorable, I mean if i felt inclined i could fire back with pretty decent detail given that...well we all know what happened in the old forums. Anyway isn't the time or place for it, My "personal" sadism will just have to be satisfied another way.

Wanting to live freely without being watched by creepy drug-addicts is egotism and insolence?

 

Yes!

 

Wait what...

 

  When Mages stop being a threat then the Templars will no longer have need to exist, until then their personal sacrifice is noble, it is not to be mocked.

[Master Warder Z_]

I have to agree with Xil on this, that wasn't the argument I was referring to but, the middle ground would include the circle towers, but it would be a severe adjustment on the restrictions and the way it was handled.  I  see mages being allowed to live outside the tower after passing their harrowing but still being subject to oversight by a templar/mage coalition of sorts still under the auspices of the Chantry as the middle ground idea.  This is only natural as it has been my idea so of course I see it as middle ground. But it would also ****** off enough of both sides on not getting everything they want that I would feel secure in it being the middle ground.

 

*shrug* I am of the mind that the return to the circle with out punishment or reservation for their stupidity would be a boon enough.

[Xilizhra]

Xill was that an insult? Coming from you?   That's just adorable, I mean if i felt inclined i could fire back with pretty decent detail given that...well we all know what happened in the old forums. Anyway isn't the time or place for it, My "personal" sadism will just have to be satisfied another way.

Oh, I possess personal sadism enough when it comes to video games, I just try to avoid going into detail about it.

[wcholcombe]

*shrug* I am of the mind that the return to the circle with out punishment or reservation for their stupidity would be a boon enough.

But see the punishment part doesn't really fit into if it is middle ground or not. The middle ground would apply to how the system was actually changed.  The return to Status Quo is to a large degree what the templars are hoping to accomplish long term.  The mages are wanting freedom.

 

The question of if the mages roast every templar alive, or if the templars harshly punish or kill the rebels, isn't that actual end goal of either side when you get right down to it.

[EmissaryofLies]

Templars should exist, yes. None of the gung-ho motherf*ckers eager to lop off mage heads should ever be placed in a position of authority over them, for sure. 

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

See now that would shock me.  I can't think of a game I have ever played that devoted so much resources for content that might not even occur. Plus, how do you develop further books and novels for the world if there isn't some set continuity that matches up.

 

Bioware may do this, but I doubt they will make the game resolutions that divergent that Xil and MWZ are both able to happily do what they want with the MvT war and the games be at all compatible or the same world even moving forward.

 

Bioware would have to basically develop two different game settings in regards to the game moving forward and that is a lot of resources to devote to things people might not ever use.  I just don't see that happening.

 

Just take DAO for example, if the circle of ferelden had been granted independence and Ferelden hadn't back down from the Chantry, DAI would be completely different then the experience we will be playing because all of a sudden you would have a set of players who had a fortress for the mage rebellion in the heart of ferelden and that is where the mage templar conflict would be centered, except you would have the templars attacking a soveriegn group recognized by the governing entity of that country. It is way too much to expect them to be able to account for.

 

 

However Bioware has already promised something along the lines of that for DA:I

 

2-3 completely different endings

40 major variations

100's of minor variations 

 

Say what you will about ME series, I was always amazed how much sh!t they managed to account for, compared to that DAII was a big bummer, probably because were playing with a completely different dude in a different city. But at the time of importing, there was this whole list of my choices I made in that save-state, and more than half of them didn't even matter. 

[EmissaryofLies]

I did not know that.

 

Can you provide a link for it?

[Master Warder Z_]

But see the punishment part doesn't really fit into if it is middle ground or not. The middle ground would apply to how the system was actually changed.  The return to Status Quo is to a large degree what the templars are hoping to accomplish long term.  The mages are wanting freedom.

 

The question of if the mages roast every templar alive, or if the templars harshly punish or kill the rebels, isn't that actual end goal of either side when you get right down to it.

 

Of course not, But my point is.

 

Adverse change to the system ultimately may be the objective but it isn't a determent of a middle ground path given that if there was no hostility offered to either side and they reached accord under the auspices of the Circle, there would be a far better chance to argue for improved conditions and possible anatomy then say if the war was fought to its bitter conclusion.

 

The Punishment was really just an convenient wording for the extreme treatment in a templar victory, what i meant was that if you can argue change then that in and of it self is a significant accomplishment from pre rebellion. So obviously i disagree with the notion that the circle in its entirety is not middle ground material given that is the only constant basis in either faction to act as forum for the groups.

[Master Warder Z_]

Templars should exist, yes. None of the gung-ho motherf*ckers eager to lop off mage heads should ever be placed in a position of authority over them, for sure. 

 

I am alright with this, but those Templars are while not required fairly normal...Nothing wrong with a little blood lust in a soldier after all.

 

That said i would argue we really haven't seen any of them in overt positions of Authority, i mean Cullen was a Knight Captain and he would be the highest ranking one if he was counted, though his views have softened a bit.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

  When Mages stop being a threat then the Templars will no longer have need to exist, until then their personal sacrifice is noble, it is not to be mocked.

 

If you stop prodding dragons with a pointy stick maybe then it will stop being a threat to you.

 

Their 'Sacrifice' being getting high on lyrium? Well there is nothing noble about that and it is to be mocked.

[wcholcombe]

However Bioware has already promised something along the lines of that for DA:I

 

2-3 completely different endings

40 major variations

100's of minor variations 

 

Say what you will about ME series, I was always amazed how much sh!t they managed to account for, compared to that DAII was a big bummer, probably because were playing with a completely different dude in a different city. But at the time of importing, there was this whole list of my choices I made in that save-state, and more than half of them didn't even matter. 

I have played games with a slew of endings to them, but that doesn't mean that the game world was shockingly different at the end.  You also have to account for how many balls are actually in the air to make those 40 variations......

 

1-allying with demons

2-role you play in orlesian civil war

3-role you play in MageVTemplars

4-How you relate/interact with Chantry

5-What you do regarding the Grey Wardens

6-What you do in regards to the possible city elf rebellioni

7- How you interact with the potentail Dalish Arlathyven

8- Did you possibly rediscover Arlathan?

9-What cities did you save and what cities did you let be destroyed

10- Did you completely wipe out the Red Templars?

11-Were you lenient on blood mages?

12- What companions did you keep or kill?

 

I mean these are just off the top of my head and you can figure there are at least 2-3 possible results for each one of those. It isn't 40 different endings based off the Mage Templar war, that is a part of the game, not the point of the game.

[wcholcombe]

If you stop prodding dragons with a pointy stick maybe then it will stop being a threat to you.

 

Their 'Sacrifice' being getting high on lyrium? Well there is nothing noble about that and it is to be mocked.

That is an oversimplification to the point that untrained mages are a danger.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

I am alright with this, but those Templars are while not required fairly normal...Nothing wrong with a little blood lust in a soldier after all.

 

Well, you are not exactly what I would call a Completely Unbiased person, so what you think can not really be considered fair.

[wcholcombe]

I did not know that.

 

Can you provide a link for it?

The 40 different endings is from Official Xbox Magazine article.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, you are not exactly what I would call a Completely Unbiased person, so what you think can not really be considered fair.

 

Despite me agreeing?

 

  Alright.

[EmissaryofLies]

I am alright with this, but those Templars are while not required fairly normal...Nothing wrong with a little blood lust in a soldier after all.

 

That said i would argue we really haven't seen any of them in overt positions of Authority, i mean Cullen was a Knight Captain and he would be the highest ranking one if he was counted, though his views have softened a bit.

 

As my Hawke would say "Keep them away from my mages". 

 

He's softened from 'kill them all', which is understandable after what he endured to 'tranquility is a mercy'. 

Granted, that I believe that Cullen will finally be a true moderate after the events of DA II. That is, he recognizes the threat that mages pose but he also realizes that they're people and will fight for a middle ground that both parties can live with. 

 

Greagoir is still the best of all possible worlds. I'd say Thrask, but his type do not seem willing to put their feelings aside when it comes to keeping everyone safe. 

 

I'd see them as probation and police officers. Not jailers. 

[Xilizhra]

Greagoir is still the best of all possible worlds. I'd say Thrask, but his type do not seem willing to put their feelings aside when it comes to keeping everyone safe.

Ick. Greagoir is really no better than Cullen, given what he does in the mage origin.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

That is an oversimplification to the point that untrained mages are a danger.

 

 

Untrained Mages are a danger, to themselves and others around them, And they should be taught the dangers and advantages of Magic by senior experienced Mages, But teaching or should I say brainwashing them into believing that they suck and god hates them, because they were born differently than the majority, is something I hate both in game world and in real life. (see kelli in da:o) 

 

But as observed in DA II most of the Mages turn abominations when stuck in a no way out situation and facing certain death, so you are basically pushing them over the edge and blaming them for going over the edge.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Despite me agreeing?

 

  Alright.

 

 

Well, you are the one who said, it is Ok for the Templars to have a little blood lust, but why? they are not supposed to be soldiers, they are supposed to be guardians of the mages and protect them and others from them, and once you lust the blood of those who you are supposed to watch over.. well.. then it is all downhill from there.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ick. Greagoir is really no better than Cullen, given what he does in the mage origin.

 

Forgetting that he had Jowan's blood all over his armor?

 

._.