Red lyrium appearance is to convenient . their are only 2 groups that know where to get it: hawke and his companions and the grey wardens. And isn't it weird that a grey warden suddenly appeared to undermine the entire circle system while their is a pro mage divine leading the chantry?
Red lyrium appearance is to convenient . their are only 2 groups that know where to get it: hawke and his companions and the grey wardens. And isn't it weird that a grey warden suddenly appeared to undermine the entire circle system while their is a pro mage divine leading the chantry?
I'm sure we get some explanation where all the red lyrium comes from but still since it's hard to get and finds I doubt there are going to be a lot of people using it.
I'm guessing you mean Anders, well he makes he clear that he left the Grey Wardens and he has changed because of Justice he allowed into his body and Anders becomes even more extreme after that. Even though the Grey Wardens are up to something I doubt it's about freeing mages it would rather be about stopping the blights for good or something like that.
Lambert's been played like a Violin up to that point. While I do not doubt that he had a contingency plan I do no see him or his thugs being an advantageous position or being able to change their circumstances.
I hope that Lambert finds himself greater allies. He was not in the wrong when he crashed the conclave. The man is the seeker, yes. But he is a templar at heart, trying to do what is best for Thedas.
Free mages is not something that any reasonable person would want.
I would side with Lambert more if he hadn't stopped the vote, before the results were known.
I would side with Lambert more if he hadn't stopped the vote, before the results were known.
True, that would have been the smarter move.
But he believed he had a proverbial 'checkmate' at the time. It was akin to a red cape being waved in front of a bull's face.
By the time of Act 2 in Dragon Age II, even random dwarves off the streets in Kirkwall apparently know how to get into the sections of the Deep Roads that Hawke explored. Hence the quest "Fool's Gold".
Oops i should be a bit more specific . the grey wardens are currently the only ones that have the knowledge and resources to reach the thaigh
I'm sure we get some explanation where all the red lyrium comes from but still since it's hard to get and finds I doubt there are going to be a lot of people using it.
I'm guessing you mean Anders, well he makes he clear that he left the Grey Wardens and he has changed because of Justice he allowed into his body and Anders becomes even more extreme after that. Even though the Grey Wardens are up to something I doubt it's about freeing mages it would rather be about stopping the blights for good or something like that.
Do not think that the wardens are above political power plays. if any faction would that has a blatant disregard for the chantry and its rules then its the grey wardens
Well without it's army the Chantry isn't going to control much especially since most other countries have other matters to attend to like the collaps of the circle system and civil war and such.
As for Red Lyrium since it's unknown lyrium and extremely rare (or else the Dwarves would sale it or use it but they haven't) I can't imagine there are going to be many red Templars.
He may indeed be a bastard, but he has his reasons to fear mages since he has been in Tevinter and watched and helped his best friend assent to leader of Tevinter only to find out that his friend did it for power and not to help people.
Despite the Meredith hate around here, even she has a reason to fear mages, her own sister turned Abomination and killed 80 people.
If you're going to draw comparisons... I think the Lambert is more closely related to Hawke than anyone else. BFFs with a mage, helping him at every turn, only to have his trust betrayed by his BFF blood mage buddy who has been using him to depose of his enemies (it's not blowing up a chantry bad, but still... comparisons are there).
I would say that Lambert had good reason to go hard line, just as Meredith did.
But you do need processed lyrium, which is what the dwarves sell to the Chantry.
Luckily the Templars probably won't need to mine it themselves then huh?
Given the Mining Houses occasionally lose portions of their shipments already after all.
If you speak to the two sisters outside the chantry in Denerim, they talk about a lyrium store in Denerim and how it effected the guy who ran it.I think his name was brother Caedmon (?) and how he stripped off his clothes and died drowning in a vat of wine on a feastday. So the pilfering/skimming idea is possible.
That was actually the instance i was referring to, those storehouses have never been mentioned again.
Its conjecture to assume that is where the Chantry stores all of its lyrium when it isn't in use via the circle or templars.
Well, if you remember in origins if you opt to save the arl of redcliffes family via the lyrium route, allistair mentions that you could get lyrium at the circle tower (as well as the mages to perform that ritual). Plus the gray warden idea is plausible, like maybe the mages collective quest where you buy off a templar with lyrium potions... but that doesnt fit to me.... in one of anders' missions in da2 you go through an old lyrium smuggler tunnel, where anders says its to smuggle lyrium for templars who crave the stuff.... dwarves are not stupid, if there is a profit to be made they will do it even if its not legal. so i think the smuggler route is the best idea
Luckily the Templars probably won't need to mine it themselves then huh?
Given the Mining Houses occasionally lose portions of their shipments already after all.
Considering they can't mine it, they'd have to deal with the dwarves, and knowing the dwarves, they have to come up with vast sums of money and a steady source of it JUST so they can keep their soldiers supplied with lyrium.
Without it, they are going to be desperate.
Considering they can't mine it, they'd have to deal with the dwarves, and knowing the dwarves, they have to come up with vast sums of money and a steady source of it JUST so they can keep their soldiers supplied with lyrium.
Without it, they are going to be desperate.
Hence why i was doing the argument they already had a sizable stockpile of it for field operations, Lambert was planning a short term campaign but that doesn't mean there would be contingency plans in place, after all he assembled the entire order for the most part in Orlais, if you are going to being having that many men operating in concert it makes the argument that logistical basis has already been established otherwise a campaign would be impossible.
True, that would have been the smarter move.
But he believed he had a proverbial 'checkmate' at the time. It was akin to a red cape being waved in front of a bull's face.
instead his actions along with others lead to war and even after all the mages have been through they only declared independence because of one vote which indicate mages in general still after that didn't want leave the circle.
Do not think that the wardens are above political power plays. if any faction would that has a blatant disregard for the chantry and its rules then its the grey wardens
Well the Chantry and Grey Wardens aren't enemies though, if the Wardens has something to do with it (Which I personally doubt) it's because it has something to do with Darkspawn, although I fail to see on how causing a war between mages and templars is useful for Grey Wardens though.
Because if the Grey Wardens wanted to take over a country or something like that they wouldn't clash with the Chantry who pretty much only care about their religion being spread.
If you're going to draw comparisons... I think the Lambert is more closely related to Hawke than anyone else. BFFs with a mage, helping him at every turn, only to have his trust betrayed by his BFF blood mage buddy who has been using him to depose of his enemies (it's not blowing up a chantry bad, but still... comparisons are there).
I would say that Lambert had good reason to go hard line, just as Meredith did.
True, but Anders isn't a blood mage though, at least not in DA2 anyway.
Well yes they do, but they let their own fear at times cloud their judgment, as seen when Meredith call for the annulment of the circle for a crime they didn't commit (she even tried called for annulment for the circle earlier by going behind the grand cleric back through Orlais) or when Lambert crashed the meeting before they had voted.
instead his actions along with others lead to war
I am still of the mind of the Divine being the most responsible party for this.
For the most part Lambert only reacted to fallout from her actions, and Fiona exploited the Fallout.
Another thing I thought of, if it has not already been mentioned is Haven. Oghren says about the mountain having lyrim in it. Who would have the rights to mine it? Surface Dwarves could move in there if they did a deal with the Dragon Cult (if they still existed) or just stake out a claim if the cult did not exist. Would that be feasible?
OP, this is whats been bothering me since DA2. Frankly, the only reason the Templar Rebellion is still active is because of the extremely convenient Red Lyrium and because Bioware REALLY wants a Templar enemy in Inquisition. But I can understand that.
Practically everything the Templars have, it comes from the Chantry. Logistics, food, equipment, money, and lyrium. And then they cut themselves off from Chantry. And lots of people are under the impression that the Templars have more autonomy than they think.
Money to buy lyrium? How?. Their income source came from the CHANTRY. Whatever money they have it should be drying up by now. Where are they supposed to get more money? Mercenary activities since Templars are soldiers? That would divide their forces away from fighting mages. And why would anyone hire them since they would be logically too expensive, especially needing lyrium to function?
Smuggle lyrium? There is no freaking way smuggling should be able to support all of the Templars. Smuggling requires money, money came from the Chantry, and the Templars cut themselves off from the Chantry. And not every trader will want to deal with them. And whatever money the Templars have, how the hell do they expect to compete with the Chantry who can simply outbid them? And then store the lyrium back in Orzammar for safekeeping? The whole point of the Chantry's monopoly on lyrium was to make it very difficult for the Templars to disobey them. And make them crawl back and beg for another dose before withdrawal
Raid the Chantry lyrium stores? They're not gonna freaking last forever. And good luck with losing further Chantry and public support.
Mining lyrium? *sigh* Even if the Templars somehow found an independent source of lyrium, did you forget that raw lyrium is dangerous to humans? And that only dwarves can successfully mine it?
But again, this is all moot, since the existence of Red Lyrium.
I am still of the mind of the Divine being the most responsible party for this.
For the most part Lambert only reacted to fallout from her actions, and Fiona exploited the Fallout.
Well she wanted to change the circle system or at least improve upon it. But she couldn't do officially because of traditionalist of the Chantry that wanted no changes what so ever.
So I would rather say it's a combination of events that lead to it.
This was going to happen sooner or later because the Chantry refused to change or improve upon the circle system which was needed but didn't happen because people are stuck in the past and don't see that things are changing around them.
Well she wanted to change the circle system or at least improve upon it. But she couldn't do officially because of traditionalist of the Chantry that wanted no changes what so ever.
So I would rather say it's a combination of events that lead to it.
This was going to happen sooner or later because the Chantry refused to change or improve upon the circle system which was needed but didn't happen because people are stuck in the past and don't see that things are changing around them.
But you cannot argue that her pushing the rite of tranquility cure in response to pressure from Orlais didn't prompt this decision, she did it out of a compromise sure, but it also lead to the events of Asunder. i merely point out that had she decided to pursue it in a less tremulous time it likely wouldn't have met the reaction it garnered.
See that's the subjective Pro Mage viewpoint i take issue with, The system worked more or less for a thousand years and this only came to a head because of the actions of a handful of individuals who worked in the aftermath of a political crisis to push their own agenda. I can pretty confidently state that if certain people hadn't been involved, the system as it existed would still be viable in DA, Which is why i am pushing for its return.
Another thing I thought of, if it has not already been mentioned is Haven. Oghren says about the mountain having lyrim in it. Who would have the rights to mine it? Surface Dwarves could move in there if they did a deal with the Dragon Cult (if they still existed) or just stake out a claim if the cult did not exist. Would that be feasible?
It's part of Ferelden, so I'd imagine the ruler of the nation would have claim over the region. As for mining lyrium, I don't think surface dwarves could mine it. Surface dwarves have lost their resistance to lyrium over time, while the dwarves of Orzammar have had generations of proximity to lyrium ore to make them naturally resistant.
But you cannot argue that her pushing the rite of tranquility cure in response to pressure from Orlais didn't prompt this decision, she did it out of a compromise sure, but it also lead to the events of Asunder. i merely point out that had she decided to pursue it in a less tremulous time it likely wouldn't have met the reaction it garnered.
See that's the subjective Pro Mage viewpoint i take issue with, The system worked more or less for a thousand years and this only came to a head because of the actions of a handful of individuals who worked in the aftermath of a political crisis to push their own agenda. I can pretty confidently state that if certain people hadn't been involved, the system as it existed would still be viable in DA, Which is why i am pushing for its return.
If system was working we wouldn't have to fight with hordes of abomnations and blood mages 
If system was working we wouldn't fight with hordes of abomnations and blood mages
You aint never lied.
If system was working we wouldn't have to fight with hordes of abomnations and blood mages
So, What would be you're proposed solution that?
Because of the circle, Abominations running amok through out the countryside became a significant rarity, and so did blood magic domination. Its practically non existent outside of the Imperium in Thedas because of the circle.
The circle kept magic contained, if there was spill over, it effected the circle and not much else, that was how it operated more or less for more then nine hundred years.
So, What would be you're proposed solution that?
I'll answer that. His solution is to have a continuous cycle of genocide by killing any child who shows magical prospects the moment they do.
So, What would be you're proposed solution that?
Because of the circle, Abominations running amok through out the countryside became a significant rarity, and so did blood magic domination. Its practically non existent outside of the Imperium in Thedas because of the circle.
The circle kept magic contained, if there was spill over, it effected the circle and not much else, that was how it operated more or less for more then nine hundred years.
Rarity nah it is rather big rarity considering that we meet a lot blood mages and abomnations not only inside circles but also outside circles. So rather naive perspective for sake supporting circles just for sake supporting circles.
Not rly we had a lot escapes from it , a lot missed mages and a lot corruption inside circles it don't work sure it deliver more safety that total mage freedom but thats says a little and still sucks considering that we plenty examples mages causing disasters.
What im going for you know that and many knows that it is final solution killing all/almost all mages so no more escapes and anti-mages can focus entirely on hunting mages instead watching them add to that some laws and propaganda mages problems mostly solved for good.
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