1089 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Prove of unlimited power that mages have?

 

Mages don't have unlimited power, only untapped potential. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Prove of unlimited power that mages have?

To be honest i almost died of laughter watching it and having in head quotes of irving how mages are powerful that 7 is enough.

those guys don't count as mages! and now i'm ashamed, why on earth i watched this! 

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't care if it's 99%, if a mage doesn't train for battle then they suck at fighting naturally. 

 

 

Mages don't have unlimited power, only untapped potential. 

 

Of course so normal person heh

 

yeah example of that we have in movies and games

[KainD]

those guys don't count as mages! and now i'm ashamed, why on earth i watched this! 

 

Mage is a race, not a profession there's nothing to really be ashamed about. Those guys are mages.

Saying that mages are weak is like saying that humans are weak. Is it true? Depends on the human, depends on the mage, depends on your criteria. 

[KainD]

Of course so normal person heh

 

yeah example of that we have in movies and games

 

Yeah they are just like any other person. With hard work they can achieve something or they can sit on their butt and suck. 

[The Baconer]

You know what all spells and magical abilities ( And templars do use magical abilities granted by lyrium ) have in common whether they are directed to causing magical effect or dispelling countering magical effects? Power level. You know what that means? It's a two way street, and it doesn't depend only on skill/willpower of the templar, it also depends on skill/willpower of a mage. You know what it means if a mage can't hurt a templar with their spells? It means that they suck and that they are a weak mage that can't fight for crap. 

 

Even if that were the whole truth, would simply overpowering every Templar be the most efficient, or realistic, course of action? Fatigue is the biggest limiting factor when it comes to the application of magic in combat, even for powerful mages like Felassan. Also take into account that not all mages specialize in blowing **** up.

 

Finding more indirect ways of fighting and disarming the Templars, mitigating the expenditure of mana while also limiting their ability to disrupt spellcasting, would be far wiser than simply front-loading all of your offensive power.

 

And don't retort with "if a mage doesn't have infinite stamina it's because THEY SUCK"

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Mage is a race, not a profession there's nothing to really be ashamed about. Those guys are mages.

Saying that mages are weak is like saying that humans are weak. Is it true? Depends on the human, depends on the mage, depends on your criteria. 

they sounded more like storm troopers than mages to me... and i'm just gonna stick with it. disguised storm troopers, yeah.

[Master Warder Z_]

In regards to Uldred at Ostagar, why didn't she say that? Why did no one else object to it or exclaim a similar view? It was a hateful and venomous sentiment expressed by a bigoted Chantry Priest. The Qunari were after their tome and they had not expressed any hostility towards Kirkwall besides hurting Hawke's feelings. Petrice was a hotheaded fool, reminds of a certain Asunder mage you and the rest of this board love so very much. But hey, it's ok when she's on your team! You bring up an excellent point about the Priest at Redcliff. If they believe that they'll be taken to the circle, why the pitchforks? Why the threats? Why the close calls? Because like the Chantry, they hate mages.

 

She did express that.

 

"We will trust no lives to your spells mage, save them for the Darkspawn."

 

You seeing it from one perspective, doesn't equate that perspective as right.

 

And No, The Qunari want to enslave every sentient being in Thedas under their Godless, Junta Dogma. They are neutral hostiles at best, There is nothing wrong with awakening people to fight off a rapid dog when it approaches the village.

 

When the Chantry stops paying for the Circle Upkeep, When  the Templars under the Chantry stop protecting Mages and When the Lyrium the mages need for enchanting, Rune Crafting and Rituals stops coming from the Chantry, i am sure you may have a point here. But the point is, The Chantry bankrolls the circle, it expresses Magic as a gift, and condemns those who abuse it, despise the Chantry all you wish but the Dogma has remained the same since the first Canticles were written.

 

Its a gift from their god.

 

 

You'll never ever be moved to call it what it is then? Despite the Keili who resembles Orana in all but her race, your phylacteries and complete and utter control over mage lives? Fine. Suit yourself.

 

That's cute, Keli having a disagreeable viewpoint from you automatically equates her as both having Stockholm syndrome and a invalidates her own belief on the matter all at once, its amusing considering the pro mage stance is "freedom of body and belief" in this instance it seems more like "Freedom of body and belief...when it doesn't conflict with what we want to see in this world." Maker knows, having a mage with a loyalist mindset before she is even an Enchanter is a horrible thing She must be emotionally traumatized and a slave!

 

 

 

 

That abomination you speak of is ultimately another product of the circle. I must say, with their Uldreds, Jowans, Quentins(implied), Graces, Decimus', their claims of safety and protection lose more and more credibility the longer I think about it. In contrast to the other notable individuals who happen to be circle free. I am also not inclined to call either of the circles that we've seen 'safe'. Safe in the sense that one can reasonably expect not to be rounded up in the middle of the night for a do or die situation, or face Tranquility based off of rumors. That's if you're not worried about the Circle's resident psycho Templar. Or screwing up during training. But that's to be expected

 

Anders was regarded as Insane by even Fiona, I would not called a possessed demon plaything the spokesmen of the circle, and in fact those you cite? They rose against the circle for the most part for either their own gain, their own stupidity or their own lives when threatened due to the prior two. So no, I won't cite the circle as a failure because of ego, stupidity and greed. Those are parts of Humanity, Elves and what have you, it just comes with being a fallible little meat creature.  Indeed, considering that Mages Pre Circle faced and fell to abominations, Seers, hedge witches, Magisters. it mattered no, They were possessed due to lack of strength or their own ineptitude, At least with the circle you have the gathering of resources and lore required to minimize that.

 

And it seems to me? For the most part the threat to mages, comes from other mages. Uldred, jowan, Decimus, Grace, I can list off a few more circle mages that basically led their fellows to their deaths, killed themselves or what have you. Sure you have a few rotten Templars here and there, a few more blood thirsty then i would like, but ultimately? It seems to me that, the circle is only what makes it.

 

Aka the men and women of it, and if they are lacking, that is a personal issue, not a circle issue.

 

Kill them and import news, life goes on.

 

 

That does not change the fact that they are. As for the rest, I should have been more clear. Looking at the state of elves and mages in Andrastian society, I hardly see too much of a difference in sentiment and function, hence 'watered down Tevinter'. They are what they hate. It would be hilarious if they were intelligent enough to at least see and admit to it. 

 

They're the diet cola to Coca Cola. Both are terrible and Mountain Dew is superior. That's what Thedas needs from Bioware...Mountain Dew. 

 

It doesn't change your perspective on it maybe, but that doesn't make it so.

 

And Mountain dew is garbage.

 

And toxic for your internal organs...but we can go over that elsewhere.

[KainD]

Even if that were the whole truth, would simply overpowering every Templar be the most efficient, or realistic, course of action? Fatigue is the biggest limiting factor when it comes to the application of magic in combat, even for powerful mages like Felassan. Also take into account that not all mages specialize in blowing **** up.

 

Finding more indirect ways of fighting and disarming the Templars, mitigating the expenditure of mana while also limiting their ability to disrupt spellcasting, would be far wiser than simply front-loading all of your offensive power.

 

And don't retort with "if a mage doesn't have infinite stamina it's because THEY SUCK"

 

It doesn't matter what spells you use, the ones that blow things up or mind control or a curse or something in between. If you are a mage that knows combat you will overpower the templar not through shear spell power but through superior training and experience, through superior magic application. I described before how a mage can train for combat. It's not all about mages stamina, it's about how they use their stamina. Realize that a well trained mage can cast a stronger fireball and use less mana for said fireball than an untrained mage, that would both cast a weaker fireball and spend more mana on it. 

[The Baconer]

It doesn't matter what spells you use, the ones that blow things up or mind control or a curse or something in between. If you are a mage that knows combat you will overpower the templar not through shear spell power but through superior training and experience, through superior magic application. I described before how a mage can train for combat. It's not all about mages stamina, it's about how they use their stamina. Realize that a well trained mage can cast a stronger fireball and use less mana for said fireball than an untrained mage, that would both cast a weaker fireball and spend more mana on it. 

 

Right, but these are not luxuries that the mages facing the Templars have at the moment, which necessitates said change in tactics.

[KainD]

Right, but these are not luxuries that the mages facing the Templars have at the moment, which necessitates said change in tactics.

 

Yes I agree with you, but that is not the main point of the discussion we had with TKS, which you joined.

[The Baconer]

Yes I agree with you, but that is not the main point of the discussion we had with TKS, which you joined.

 

Oh. I don't read TKS posts.

[EmissaryofLies]

She did express that.
 
"We will trust no lives to your spells mage, save them for the Darkspawn."
 
You seeing it from one perspective, doesn't equate that perspective as right.

Another impasse, you see her as a concerned well wisher. I see her as bigoted old wench, who's very own history supports and propagates such views as to be very common amongst her ilk. Leliana certainly doesn't seem to agree.
 

And No, The Qunari want to enslave every sentient being in Thedas under their Godless, Junta Dogma. They are neutral hostiles at best, There is nothing wrong with awakening people to fight off a rapid dog when it approaches the village.

What dog? Their arrival in Kirkwall was utterly circumstantial. If they arrived as the rabid slavers(funny your willingness to use this term) that they can be, Kirkwall would not have survived the first act. It truly would have become the city of chains, even more so metaphorically.
 

When the Chantry stops paying for the Circle Upkeep, When  the Templars under the Chantry stop protecting Mages and When the Lyrium the mages need for enchanting, Rune Crafting and Rituals stops coming from the Chantry, i am sure you may have a point here. But the point is, The Chantry bankrolls the circle, it expresses Magic as a gift, and condemns those who abuse it, despise the Chantry all you wish but the Dogma has remained the same since the first Canticles were written.
 
Its a gift from their god.

lmfao, seriously? Because they pamper their slaves, it somehow excuses the myriad of catches that comes along with it. Everyone's got a job in the Qun. Everyone has a duty and place, they have decent accomodations...Yet I do not see you talking them up as much...I wonder why. The dogma is entirely misrepresented by it's practitioners, if I'm to go by its words alone. But then you'll talk about perception and 'you can't blame the chantry'. Another impasse.
 
 
 

That's cute, Keli having a disagreeable viewpoint from you automatically equates her as both having Stockholm syndrome and a invalidates her own belief on the matter all at once, its amusing considering the pro mage stance is "freedom of body and belief" in this instance it seems more like "Freedom of body and belief...when it doesn't conflict with what we want to see in this world." Maker knows, having a mage with a loyalist mindset before she is even an Enchanter is a horrible thing She must be emotionally traumatized and a slave!

Keili was damn near gleeful of the fact that she was about to be run through with Templar blades by the time the Annulment came. Also, I ask you, where exactly did Keili grow up? What exactly was she exposed to in terms of societal beliefs? Anti mage dogma and sentiment. Templars coming to drag her away all the while reinforcing the notion that she is somehow at fault for simply being born. She was brainwashed and sick in the head; way beyond a 'Loyalist'.
 
 

Anders was regarded as Insane by even Fiona, I would not called a possessed demon plaything the spokesmen of the circle, and in fact those you cite? They rose against the circle for the most part for either their own gain, their own stupidity or their own lives when threatened due to the prior two. So no, I won't cite the circle as a failure because of ego, stupidity and greed. Those are parts of Humanity, Elves and what have you, it just comes with being a fallible little meat creature.  Indeed, considering that Mages Pre Circle faced and fell to abominations, Seers, hedge witches, Magisters. it mattered no, They were possessed due to lack of strength or their own ineptitude, At least with the circle you have the gathering of resources and lore required to minimize that.
 
And it seems to me? For the most part the threat to mages, comes from other mages. Uldred, jowan, Decimus, Grace, I can list off a few more circle mages that basically led their fellows to their deaths, killed themselves or what have you. Sure you have a few rotten Templars here and there, a few more blood thirsty then i would like, but ultimately? It seems to me that, the circle is only what makes it.
 
Aka the men and women of it, and if they are lacking, that is a personal issue, not a circle issue.
 
Kill them and import news, life goes on.

 
I wouldn't refer to Anders as the spokesman either. He was not insane. By all intents and purposes he was a good person, he probably would have been even better if given the chance. Lest you forget he healed the common man for nearly a decade free of charge. Argue motives all that you like, the simple fact of the matter is that he did this. You cannot take it away. I will cite the Circle as a failure for the monsters that it played a part in creating. I will cite every annulment as an egregious failure, every illegal rite of Tranquility, every abuse by the Templars. The Circle keeps mundanes safe. Not mages, as evidenced by what we've seen so far in the narrative.

I am willing to agree that human nature does indeed play a part in it. But these individuals were taken from their families, thrust into a precarious environment where the 'curse' part of the Chant takes precedence. I believe you stated earlier that mages are protected from themselves, you've proven that they are not.

The Andrastians tell them that they are cursed. Deny them families, freedom and pretty much disdain their very existence and then I'm supposed to pretend that the Circle is not responsible for the monsters that it creates? I will not, and I cannot. It is unreasonable.

If you were to say that the Circle keeps the 'normal people' safe, I could agree with you.

[Master Warder Z_]

I really don't feel like doing this dance for much longer, even you conceded we were at an impasse for the most part.

 

o.o Course i suppose i could continue it for a bit longer if you wanted, but i really don't see the need.

[EmissaryofLies]

I getcha, we both hold convictions in our beliefs. 

 

I, like you, am not unreasonable. 

 

If the Chantry does a complete 180 with Justinia, I'll be the first one to give the devil his due.