1089 réponses à ce sujet

[EmissaryofLies]

She supports the democratic process, at least. 

 

lol  "Democracy is non-negotiable!"

[EmissaryofLies]

Since mages never hold the original vote, we never get know if they would be set lose as you call it

 

She helped them every step of the way. She all but put on robes and flinged fireballs at the templars as well. 

[TTTX]

She helped them every step of the way. She all but put on robes and flinged fireballs at the templars as well. 

Gives them reason to stay in circle system, now they have an alley in one of the highest places of power which could improve on the situation in circles.

[Master Warder Z_]

Gives them reason to stay in circle system, now they have an alley in one of the highest places of power which could improve on the situation in circles.

 

Assuming the Divine isn't killed, Deposed or comes to another way of thinking.

 

A lot of what if's to me.

[EmissaryofLies]

Gives them reason to stay in circle system, now they have an alley in one of the highest places of power which could improve on the situation in circles.

 

It does. It's simply too bad that it isn't what happened. It's also too bad that Justinia played a major role in placing the mages in their current position of 'freedom'. 

 

How is any reasonable person going to think that it's ok to aid probable abominations and blood mages? Lambert was 100% in the right for breaking his seekers off from a compromised organization such as Justinia's Chantry. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Lambert was 100% in the right for breaking his seekers off from a compromised organization such as Justinia's Chantry. 

 

Damn right.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Considering that divine was so stupid to let mages go start world war after lambert captured them and solved situation lambert was sane to stop things but divine thwarted his effort with her stupidity it was sane thing to do for him...

[wcholcombe]

It does. It's simply too bad that it isn't what happened. It's also too bad that Justinia played a major role in placing the mages in their current position of 'freedom'. 

 

How is any reasonable person going to think that it's ok to aid probable abominations and blood mages? Lambert was 100% in the right for breaking his seekers off from a compromised organization such as Justinia's Chantry. 

What probably abominations or blood mages did you see in the end of Asunder?  Or at all?  You saw Pharamond and technically maybe Wynne and the Mage at the beginning, who some argue Lambert tried to use to assassinate the Divine, others think Adrian was behind it, but we really don't know.  Lambert betrayed his own duty as Seeker by becoming involved in something that wasn't his role to begin with.  The Internal Affairs investigators don't suddenly take the police force and rebel against the Police Commissioner.  Add on top of that, there is nothing we know of that gives him the power to leave the Chantry. He does, but at this point Lambert is a power hungry twit anyway, who only cares about his personal viewpoint on everything.  The fact that his duty was to investigate the templars and serve the Divine, he betrayed both quite fantastically.

[wcholcombe]

Considering that divine was so stupid to let mages go start world war after lambert captured them and solved situation lambert was sane to stop things but divine thwarted his effort with her stupidity it was sane thing to do for him...

If it was stupidity that thwarted Lambert, what does that say about the Lord Commander????

[TTTX]

It does. It's simply too bad that it isn't what happened. It's also too bad that Justinia played a major role in placing the mages in their current position of 'freedom'. 

 

How is any reasonable person going to think that it's ok to aid probable abominations and blood mages? Lambert was 100% in the right for breaking his seekers off from a compromised organization such as Justinia's Chantry. 

So did a number of people, Lambert was the last drop that made the cup flow over.

 

Well Lambert disobeyed his orders first if you want to point fingers which then caused the mages eventually voted for independence by 1 vote even after Lambert's attack and slaghter of some mages who had surrendered, they were still on the fence on the vote, they weren't all like "Let's totally go to war".

[Master Warder Z_]

 Lambert's attack and slaghter of some mages who had surrendered

 

Asunder was pretty clear about only one mage dying.

 

And that was after Fiona had denied his request of Rhys and the ending of the Conclave, which you conveniently left out he said they could leave and return to their towers despite talking treason against the Chantry.

[TheKomandorShepard]

If it was stupidity that thwarted Lambert, what does that say about the Lord Commander????

Nothing pretty much stupidity of others can thwart even best plans and ultimately it went as lambert wanted not counting cole thing but pretty much he would have to be one of that impossible geniuses that control entire plot in fiction to predict so small and unforeseeable circumstances...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Nothing pretty much stupidity of others can thwart even best plans and ultimately it went as lambert wanted not counting cole thing but pretty much he would have to be one of that impossible geniuses that control entire plot in fiction to predict so small and unforeseeable circumstances...

So you think that Lambert wanted the war now? I thought you think he wanted to stop it before war broke out?

[TheKomandorShepard]

So you think that Lambert wanted the war now? I thought you think he wanted to stop it before war broke out?

He wanted to stop war but he watned also kick out current divine considering her naivety and stupidity even if he stoped war it wouldn't take long with current divine to give another opportunity to the war besides divine is very suspicious as she was provoking both sides and when she won she supported loosing so they could back to game and start war.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

He wanted to stop war but he watned also kick out current divine considering her naivety and stupidity even if he stoped war it wouldn't take long with current divine to give another opportunity to the war besides divine is very suspicious as she was provoking both sides and when she won she supported loosing so they could back to game and start war.

That's not what you just said. You said that ultimately, as in all things considered, it went as Lambert wanted. That means he wanted the war to break out. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's not what you just said. You said that ultimately, as in all things considered, it went as Lambert wanted. That means he wanted the war to break out. 

What i said? I said that lambert wanted stop war and overthrow current divine when divine thwarted first he succeeded at second as he separated templars and seekers from her so he got what he wanted and he defeated her that was my point...

[TTTX]

Asunder was pretty clear about only one mage dying.

 

And that was after Fiona had denied his request of Rhys and the ending of the Conclave, which you conveniently left out he said they could leave and return to their towers despite talking treason against the Chantry.

That's not how I remember it.

 

So? If Lambert had waited until the vote had been cast before go all in break up the conclave and the mages had vote for independence he would be more on the right side, but since that didn't happen we have no idea what they would have voted for, makes Lambert look more like a fool and traitor to his own job since it's not his role to be a templar.

[wcholcombe]

What i said? I said that lambert wanted stop war and overthrow current divine when divine thwarted first he succeeded at second as he separated templars and seekers from her so he got what he wanted and he defeated her that was my point...

lol he defeated Justinia......lol hahahahahahahahahahaahahahaaha!  One of them is still sitting in on their throne and the other is probably either dead or a meat suit. There are many things Lambert may or may not have done, but he has in no way defeated the Divine.

[EmissaryofLies]

So did a number of people, Lambert was the last drop that made the cup flow over.

 

Well Lambert disobeyed his orders first if you want to point fingers which then caused the mages eventually voted for independence by 1 vote even after Lambert's attack and slaghter of some mages who had surrendered, they were still on the fence on the vote, they weren't all like "Let's totally go to war".

 

Lambert was simply trying to clean up the mess. He's gathered all of his forces to continue to do so as well. He takes a decent share of the blame, if common sense is to be looked down upon. 

 

Justinia is way too soft for her own good. She turned a blind eye to Wynne spreading news about Tranquility, distracted Lambert... She has endangered all of Thedas with her actions. There was no reason to follow such an inept leader. 

 

She forced Lambert's hand every time she decided to turn a blind eye to mage skullduggery. 

 

I can say that blame falls upon both shoulders, though the lion's share is upon Justinia.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What i said? I said that lambert wanted stop war and overthrow current divine when divine thwarted first he succeeded at second as he separated templars and seekers from her so he got what he wanted and he defeated her that was my point...

In your previous post, well two previous now, you said things went ultimately how Lambert wanted. And since things ended in war, that means you think Lambert wanted war, contradicting your view that he didn't want war.

[TheKomandorShepard]

lol he defeated Justinia......lol hahahahahahahahahahaahahahaaha!  One of them is still sitting in on their throne and the other is probably either dead or a meat suit. There are many things Lambert may or may not have done, but he has in no way defeated the Divine.

yeah she caused world war and lost her templar ,mages and seekers left with few loyal units and add to that she isn't well like among chantry as well and very desperate to seek someone who will fix mess she caused... when second took almost every military member that chantry had and others went with him and pretty much as i said cole thing was unpredictable and not caused by divine separate matters not change fact he defated her... 

 

 

 

In your previous post, well two previous now, you said things went ultimately how Lambert wanted. And since things ended in war, that means you think Lambert wanted war, contradicting your view that he didn't want war.

 

Which meant that he wanted overthrow divine which happened so he got what he wanted

[dragonflight288]

By giving them less work to do!

 

 

Those are beautiful words, but the thing is that the Templars still felt as the aggravated party. Theose things you've pointed out are "improvements" more valued by people outside the order than by themselves.

 

However, maybe Templars should realize that several of the perks they have enjoyed until now have been privileges more than rights. But that is another matter.

 

As Cullen says, many templars believe they have dominion over mages by divine right. Convincing them that their authority is a privilege and not a divine right is going to be a monumental challenge. And recent leadership has called into question whether templars and seekers deserve those privileges. 

[wcholcombe]

Lambert was simply trying to clean up the mess. He's gathered all of his forces to continue to do so as well. He takes a decent share of the blame, if common sense is to be looked down upon. 

 

Justinia is way too soft for her own good. She turned a blind eye to Wynne spreading news about Tranquility, distracted Lambert... She has endangered all of Thedas with her actions. There was no reason to follow such an inept leader. 

 

She forced Lambert's hand every time she decided to turn a blind eye to mage skullduggery. 

 

I can say that blame falls upon both shoulders, though the lion's share is upon Justinia.

Really?  I wouldn't consider making the effort to modernize and reform a failing system as the goal of a soft individual.  The issues that were causing problems in the circle can actually be laid at lamberts feet.  Mr. Lord Commander of the Seekers didn't do much of a job of investigating or coming down on templars that were abusing mages in Kirkwall now was he.  Since that is one of the primary jobs of Seekers, its a pretty massive failing on his part.  The failure of the Seekers to maintain themselves as seperate from the templars and their inability to police the order lead to the Divine having to take a hand and institute reforms.

[wcholcombe]

yeah she caused world war and lost her templar ,mages and seekers left with few loyal units and add to that she isn't well like among chantry as well and very desperate to seek someone who will fix mess she caused... when second took almost every military member that chantry had and others went with him and pretty much as i said cole thing was unpredictable and not caused by divine separate matters not change fact he defated her... 

 

 

 

 

Which meant that he wanted overthrow divine which happened so he got what he wanted

He didn't overthrow squat. We actually have no clue how many of the templars left with Lambert nore that she is unpopular with the chantry.  What we do know is that the grand clerics don't like that they can't manipulate her, that she is still the Divine, so he in no way overthrew her, also it appears she is fixing the mess herself by the fact that DAI opens with the peace conference she has called and everyone has apparently answered.  The mess that she will need help with will be the fade tears because she is too busy making the templars and mages play nice.  Her reforms and efforts were fixing the mess the Seekers caused by not properly policing the templars as is their primary duty. 

 

Divine Justinia V still reigns, may Andraste watch over her.

[Master Warder Z_]

by the fact that DAI opens with the peace conference she has called and everyone has apparently answered.

 

Assuming that actually occurs, wasn't that only mentioned in a rather dated by this point poll?