I believe she was possessed and asked the demon to give her power for her goals, and at the end she was so powerless that she gave the demon complete control over her so that perhaps the situation could be salvaged somehow. Aka Anders Justice mode.
Grace was an abomination
Grace was an abomination
I believe she was possessed and asked the demon to give her power for her goals, and at the end she was so powerless that she gave the demon complete control over her so that perhaps the situation could be salvaged somehow. Aka Anders Justice mode.
Any proof of this prior to Act 3? She shouldn't count in that case. There was pretty much no blood mage left in Kirkwall except for possibly Alain and Merril that wasn't an abomination by that point.
So I'll restate: Please try again.
The way I think it happens is that the demon gives you power, but when you lose(like Grace), the demon takes possession of you. If you noticed, Grace only turned into an abomination after you "killed" her once during combat.
Same thing happened to Wynne, now that I think about it.
The way I think it happens is that the demon gives you power, but when you lose(like Grace), the demon takes possession of you. If you noticed, Grace only turned into an abomination after you "killed" her once during combat.
Same thing happened to Wynne, now that I think about it.
Which is why I think prior to the point of Grace's death, she was no abomination. She was a blood mage that needed no demon to become a traitor to those that saved her. When she had no choice left, she did the predictable thing and called to a demon for help.
So I stand by my statement. I have yet to see a full blown demonic abomination maintain their will and their personality.
I think I've said about all I have on the subject. For those that want it, well maybe it's time to get started on learning to mod the Frostbite 3 engine. That's the only way I can picture this idea ever coming into the games.
So I'll restate: Please try again.
I can't, because there were only so many non-generic npc abominations to begin with. I have enough fingers on my one hand to count them.
The way I think it happens is that the demon gives you power, but when you lose(like Grace), the demon takes possession of you. If you noticed, Grace only turned into an abomination after you "killed" her once during combat.
Same thing happened to Wynne, now that I think about it.
No Grace didn't turn into an abomination she just went into an abomination mode.
No Grace didn't turn into an abomination she just went into an abomination mode.
And how do you know that? When we talk to her she's just hateful. I doubt Thrask and the others would be oblivious to it if she was already a demon. So no, I think she was a Blood Mage turned demon out of desperation.
And how do you know that? When we talk to her she's just hateful. I doubt Thrask and the others would be oblivious to it if she was already a demon. So no, I think she was a Blood Mage turned demon out of desperation.
That's the problem, we are going in circles. I'm trying to say that she was an intact abomination that acted like herself, and you tell me that she isn't such because she didn't behave like an abomination that isn't intact. How am I supposed to prove it to you?
Qara was the best. She was that one person that was always there for ME. She didn't go to defeat the shadow king because that's what she cared about, she did it for me, because I wouldn't be left alone so long as I am bound to the silver sword. She was at my side all my journey when I was a spirit eater not because she wanted some justice or had problems with the wall or Gods order, she was there for ME, because I was dying. There was nothing to argue about, no philosophy, no mundane conflicts, no morals, no greater goals in life. It was just us, our love, us against the world and anyone who would try and keep us apart.
And in the end, we made it, to freedom, to the point where we could be together forever, as our souls were ours to hold and not some Gods.
And I was there for her always, for us.
Unless the romance mod changes things a lot, you're giving her more credit than she deserves. If Sand rejects the offer to betray you, Qara takes it, and vica versa. And Qara's dialogue when she doesn't betray you makes pretty clear that she's not because Sand did.
Unless the romance mod changes things a lot, you're giving her more credit than she deserves. If Sand rejects the offer to betray you, Qara takes it, and vica versa. And Qara's dialogue when she doesn't betray you makes pretty clear that she's not because Sand did.
It's not about Sand, it's about her approval with you, logically it's not really possible to have high approval with both at the same time, however it's possible to have none of the companions betray you as far as I remember. That's just her hating Sand.
Other than that she is a person that values relationships. She is the only other person beside Khelgar that volunteers to fight Lorne instead of PC, because she cares, and not because it;s injustice like Khelgar states.
Maybe we can become an abomination like Wynne if we become a Spirit Healer in Inquisition? I mean, I think the devs confirmed that we only get one specialization this time around, but they're more developed.
It's not about Sand, it's about her approval with you, logically it's not really possible to have high approval with both at the same time, however it's possible to have none of the companions betray you as far as I remember. That's just her hating Sand.
Other than that she is a person that values relationships. She is the only other person beside Khelgar that volunteers to fight Lorne instead of PC, because she cares, and not because it;s injustice like Khelgar states.
I'll give you the fight with Lorne (though I think I remember Shandra volunteering) but as for the final battle, the wiki says otherwise. (Not to mention that I vaguely remember Qara's dialogue, and it implies that Qara's staying with you due to Sand not doing so.)
I'll give you the fight with Lorne (though I think I remember Shandra volunteering) but as for the final battle, the wiki says otherwise. (Not to mention that I vaguely remember Qara's dialogue, and it implies that Qara's staying with you due to Sand not doing so.)
Shandra was crying in the pillow all night. The only other person that does anything for the fight is Neeshka, when she proposes to pour acid on Lourne's armor before the fight.
I can assure you that it is not so, If you have high approval with Qara, then it is all that matters, even if Sand stays as well.
Edit: Right, MAYBE I had another mod installed to be able to have all the companions stay as long as you have high influence with them.
I just read some material and it seems that who ever has higher influence with the PC out of the two stays and the other one leaves. It makes sense though, I don't see how logically one could be friends with both Qara and Sand at the same time.
Shandra was crying in the pillow all night. The only other person that does anything for the fight is Neeshka, when she proposes to pour acid on Lourne's armor before the fight.
I can assure you that it is not so, If you have high approval with Qara, then it is all that matters, even if Sand stays as well.
Edit: Right, MAYBE I had another mod installed to be able to have all the companions stay as long as you have high influence with them.
I just read some material and it seems that who ever has higher influence with the PC out of the two stays and the other one leaves. It makes sense though, I don't see how logically one could be friends with both Qara and Sand at the same time.
I think I remember Shandra offering to switch with me at the very last second. (Not that I took it, since I was playing Druid and she's a fighter.) As for whether it's possible to have high approval from both Sand and Qara, I think I at least had some approval from them both. (Though I'm not sure how one goes about checking.)
It's kind of an idea of mine that the Inquisitor is an abomination. The veil/fade tears gave only them singular, special powers, and I've got the feeling that maybe these powers originate from a benevolent spirit from the Fade possessing you in an attempt to save their own world as well (after all, spirits have no real interest in the mortal world and probably don't want the fade tears around). It's just speculation of course, but I really wonder why else the opening of fade tears would give an Inquisitor singular tear-closing powers.
but that doesn't match up with lore, from what we know FORCED possession result's in the spirit and soul mashing together becoming a new entity, that mutates the body horribly and sends the spirit/demon completely insane.
Unless on of the books have ret-conned this DA:O makes it clear the host cannot survive forced possession.
agreed possession cases such as connor the demon is actually in the fade and controls the host from there.
Wynne and anders are different in that the spirits possessing them are in the thedas, but wynne was dead and so could resist the spirit and Anders willing accepted it.
If possessed surely it has to by a wynne type deal as players would resent being "forced" to accept a spirit or demon and you cannot have forced possession with out the work around of the instant of death, spirit takes over and resurrects you type deal.
In which case your like Wynne on "borrowed" time. (perhaps over time wynne will wind up like anders) as would the inquisitor.
but that doesn't match up with lore, from what we know FORCED possession result's in the spirit and soul mashing together becoming a new entity, that mutates the body horribly and sends the spirit/demon completely insane.
Unless on of the books have ret-conned this DA:O makes it clear the host cannot survive forced possession.
agreed possession cases such as connor the demon is actually in the fade and controls the host from there.
Wynne and anders are different in that the spirits possessing them are in the thedas, but wynne was dead and so could resist the spirit and Anders willing accepted it.
If possessed surely it has to by a wynne type deal as players would resent being "forced" to accept a spirit or demon and you cannot have forced possession with out the work around of the instant of death, spirit takes over and resurrects you type deal.
In which case your like Wynne on "borrowed" time. (perhaps over time wynne will wind up like anders) as would the inquisitor.
If you're a mage, every once and a while you'll get demon possession attempts.
QTE where's you'll have to tap X to resist. Fail and the PC transforms and kills the party members and you get a Game Over screen.
It is different. All demons are spirits, but not all spirits are demons. So there is that group of non-demon spirits that if they possess a host don't do abomination things, thus is different.
Perhaps I have my lore wrong, but I was under the impression that 'demons' were merely spirits whose single focus was something negative rather than something 'positive' like Justice (and that, as DA2 demonstrates, any spirit is essentially the same thing as their one-track mindedness is very destructive).
Perhaps I have my lore wrong, but I was under the impression that 'demons' were merely spirits whose single focus was something negative rather than something 'positive' like Justice (and that, as DA2 demonstrates, any spirit is essentially the same thing as their one-track mindedness is very destructive).
Perhaps I have my lore wrong, but I was under the impression that 'demons' were merely spirits whose single focus was something negative rather than something 'positive' like Justice (and that, as DA2 demonstrates, any spirit is essentially the same thing as their one-track mindedness is very destructive).
They both are overly negative to the living world, its just someone are outright malevolent and others are too caught within their bailiwick to understand mortality.
There is nothing in Dragon as a "good spirit" its just that you have some that are more malevolent then others outright. Some try to foist the opinion that time within the living world or mortals themselves transfer negativity and change these beings from positive to negative, but in truth? Demons are Demons, and Spirits are just as bad. They are singular focus constructs after all, Just because a spirit is one of Wrath or Faith doesn't mean it won't go on killing spree's or possess anything in its sight.
Then you have this conception that spirits do not seek to posses mortals and do not try to devour their essence like demons do, That is more or less true but it still occurs, just for different reasoning. After all it appears most "spirits" Unlike demons do not possess the knowledge of how to possess, it seems once they gain that they actually go out and do it when the time to do presents it self, This was evident in Wynne.
Overall, It doesn't matter if you buy into them being of the immaterial or the Maker's first children, they are all bad news.
Its in essence similar to the Daedra and Aedra of TES.
You have "Benevolent" and "Malevolent" spirits but both view mortal as little more then either things of pity, amusement or what have you.
No real benefit to have from trucking with either.
No real benefit to have from trucking with either.
This line is pretty much the only disagreement I have with your post. You can easily argue that the potential price is too much, but you really can gain some degree of power from them. And so far Wynne's spirit has been pure benefit, though I'm not pretending that can't change.
This line is pretty much the only disagreement I have with your post. You can easily argue that the potential price is too much, but you really can gain some degree of power from them. And so far Wynne's spirit has been pure benefit, though I'm not pretending that can't change.
It can warp her mind, dictate her action and completely change her personality at the drop of a hat.
You think being kept alive is worth the utter removal of choice?
You think an increase in ability is worth it when you are a meat suit?
If you're a mage, every once and a while you'll get demon possession attempts.
QTE where's you'll have to tap X to resist. Fail and the PC transforms and kills the party members and you get a Game Over screen.
No, and not for the reasons you may initially expect.
I simply hate quick-time events.
Rather, why not do something like in Witcher 2 at the beginning. If you decide to attack Roche after the prologue, you'll be shot in the back with a crossbow and die and get a gameover that way. Actually have some dialogue and a roleplay reason to do it, not just quicktime button pressing.
It can warp her mind, dictate her action and completely change her personality at the drop of a hat.
You think being kept alive is worth the utter removal of choice?
You think an increase in ability is worth it when you are a meat suit?
As I said, you can easily argue that the potential price is too much. I'm just noting that you really can get a power boost from working with a spirit, and that while there is a potential price we never see Wynne paying it. (Edit: Well, as far as I know, since I haven't actually read Asunder.)
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